2009-10-05, 01:27 | Link #1061 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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...So, um. That would mean that she's Kinzo's daughter after all, right? |
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2009-10-05, 01:43 | Link #1062 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Not necessarily. She could also be adopted, but unlike the other children from Kinzo's orphanage, she received the Ushiromiya family name.
I think there are chances she may be adopted, since more than once, she's referred to herself as the Ushiromiya family's furniture. She does have the one-winged eagle mark on her right leg, after all. Additionally, Ronove in EP3 said "That is why furniture is so frightening. Sometimes they even become witches, and treat demons as butlers." All the same, this still sounds like too big of a stretch. This is just an idea I wanted to point out.
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2009-10-05, 02:15 | Link #1063 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Maybe the connection here is that Maria is Beatrice's vessel...which would also explain why we see Beato in plenty of past scenes, but not a single 1998 scene, whereas the stakes are able to remain somehow. Still a pretty weak theory, I guess...
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2009-10-05, 02:53 | Link #1064 | |||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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...It's probably important. Quote:
...Maybe if the vessel is a living creature, it doesn't have to be alive, merely intact? Also, Maria being Beato's vessel makes an odd kind of sense, given the symbology behind Maria's hat and all... but the handwriting is still an issue. Unless we accept that a six-year-old Maria can have handwriting that adult and detailed, Beato can't be just a figment of Maria's imagination. |
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2009-10-05, 03:05 | Link #1065 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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But Maria gets killed in the first twilight in episode 5 and Beatrice is still around defending Natsuhi.
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2009-10-05, 03:09 | Link #1066 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Maria (the one who wrote the letters) did say she'd probably be dead by the time these letters were found. So, she probably was a victim of the massacre in Rokkenjima as well. Obviously, she'd never show up during 1998. If we go to the "sin scene" in EP4 - and if we go by the assumption that Battler's point of view is reliable - then that person was definitely a human Beatrice. In fact, that person seemed to know Battler from some time ago, since she did know about his use of English catch-phrases. However, we know Battler had nothing to do with "Beatrice" 6 years ago. All the same, judging Beatrice's reaction, it'd seem it had something to do with her. So, if we take into account "Beatrice" is a title, perhaps, one would be able to say that, 6 years ago, she wasn't "Beatrice" yet. It is indeed a weak theory, but there are hints. For example, aside from what I've already mentioned, in "Notes from a certain cook," you can tell something odd is going on in Rokkenjima, and that the servants seem to be hiding something/someone.
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2009-10-05, 03:17 | Link #1067 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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In EP 2 Maria tells Rosa (before dinner time) that she had been meeting up with Beatrice every year since she was a young child. It could be that there is a Beatrice from the family who does that, to appease Maria. Only this time the 'Beatrice' Maria met up with wasn't the Beatrice she knew, and was deceived. So the 'Beatrice' that did always meet with Maria wrote the note saying she wanted the truth to be discovered, but decided to sign it with Maria's name instead. |
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2009-10-05, 03:50 | Link #1068 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Otherwise things get really confusing. Quote:
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2009-10-05, 04:12 | Link #1069 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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So yes, magic scenes obviously never happened, but does that mean we should completely ignore them? |
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2009-10-05, 04:20 | Link #1070 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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So if Beatrice doesn't really exist and Kinzo doesn't really exist then isn't that scene just the narrator trolling us?
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2009-10-05, 04:31 | Link #1071 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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You said that "Genji might not have actually died, allowing Ronove to continue existing." I'm saying "Shouldn't we regard Magic scenes as generally canon to Meta scenes?" Using the Magic Scenes Aren't Always Real explanation to explain something that only exists in the Meta-World is going to get confusing fast. Quote:
Kinzo is just... there. |
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2009-10-05, 04:46 | Link #1072 | ||
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Scenes like that just show Beato's feelings towards different things. Like how we saw her talking to Virgilia alone, while Meta-Battler wasn't around. Quote:
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2009-10-05, 06:14 | Link #1073 |
fire of fires
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vesuvius
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Wait guys, think about what Kaisos is saying for a second.
Is it possible that all the magic scenes- unless stated otherwise in Red or somehow else- happen after the characters in them died, and take place in the Meta-World? It's damn farfetched, but it would work with our theories that the Meta-World is real but magic didn't commit the murders. (Sorry if I sound really stupid haha) |
2009-10-05, 07:19 | Link #1074 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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There is also the matter of the letters sent to all the relatives of the people who died in rokkenjima, how could Maria a 9 years old girl do that? Lastly there is this red text in ep2: The letter I gave Maria... If Maria=Beatrice does it mean she gave a letter to herself? °°; Of course there is the possibility that there are many Beatrice and Maria is one of them. But in any case there must be a Beatrice that isn't Maria.
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2009-10-05, 13:45 | Link #1075 | |
* ahaha.wav *
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i wonder if Kanon and Genji have one too. i mean, Eva has a tattoo on her arm... looks kinda weird. not to mention Beatrice and demons have tattoos on right leg, when Shannon has one on her left... does it mean anything? (and both look a little different, though it may be just the placement) i just got an idea that, all of the famly members have a tattoo on arm, and furniture on a tight. (of course we would see it in anime if it was the case... unless battler is not an ushiromiya ) was anything actually mentioned about them, in the novel? it would be nice if it got explained. |
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2009-10-05, 13:54 | Link #1076 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Besides her arm, her dress is pretty much customed designed with the one-winged eagle. It's just a way of showing how much pride she has in the family I suppose. |
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2009-10-05, 14:05 | Link #1077 | |
* ahaha.wav *
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about her reason for getting one, i thought the same, but if all servants have the tattoo, wouldn't it be like she was lowering herself to their level? at least Kinzo should protest. |
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2009-10-05, 14:18 | Link #1078 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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But you're probably right, there's probably some meaning to the placement and orientation of the one winged eagle crest.
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2009-10-05, 14:33 | Link #1079 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Although I do wonder why the stakes don't have one-winged eagles on them, while the Siestas do. I understand Iron Maidens, since they aren't technically Beato's furniture nor are they affiliated with the Ushiromiya family, but still the stakes are direct furniture of Beato's. Gaap doesn't seem to have the crest either, while Ronove does. Siestas might be explainable if we take the route that MARIA created them and thus they have the crest because of her. |
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2009-10-05, 14:53 | Link #1080 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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