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Old 2014-10-15, 18:07   Link #1941
wisteria233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD View Post
It already explained nothing else is needed more explaining, they find a lost technology and think that god blessed them for it. Decided it best interest for them to settle on Mars and cut off all relationship to Earth.

Doesn't know about struggle of her people doesn't mean it will stay that way forever. Last episode shown that when Asselyum has that naiveness gone, she get right back up and stop moaning about the fact that some of her people betrayed her. No mention she proposed a plan to help Inaho to shut the castle down.
That's the extreme abridged explanation for it, there's most likely a heck of a lot more to it than that, and the one given by Earth side so you should be able to tell that that isn't the full story of what happened. They were accepting help from Earth for a while, then there is a period when it stopped, Earth blames Mars, Mars blames Earth, and some time in between they tried to terraform Mars and failed. So yeah there is a lot of information that we need from Mars side to get the full picture.

I know, but even in the last episode she still seemed to have much of a naivety, I mean almost getting killed by Rayet didn't make her lose it. Its one thing to hear about from another person and its another to know about it. Slaine's naivety is gone, Asseylum's may still be intact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
So, just to be clear, that's your interpretation?
Like I said its a guess made from looking at her behavior. It would be nice it it weren't true, I would certainly prefer it if it wasn't.

Quote:
Also, please elaborate: what do you think are the "problems" that Asseylum mentions in episode 4, when she and Eddelrittuo tell Inaho and Rayet who she is?
The fact that people out there who want to assassinate her.
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Old 2014-10-15, 18:22   Link #1942
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Like I said its a guess made from looking at her behavior. It would be nice it it weren't true, I would certainly prefer it if it wasn't.
So, even though it's possible that it's not true, you keep pushing that line because it's your preference?

NB: I'm not trying to argue, I just want to verify what your position is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
The fact that people out there who want to assassinate her.
Is that stated anywhere in the show that that's all it was?

I also just remembered another scene: what do you make of Asseylum's reaction to Rayet's description of the Vers system in episode 8?
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How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru volume 34

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Old 2014-10-15, 18:27   Link #1943
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The princess seems genuinely unaware of her people's unhappiness. Unhappiness great enough to lead to assassination/war. She's grown up being told she is the beloved princess of Vers and then all of a sudden everyone wants her dead. Even after her UN address she is shocked that it had no effect whatsoever and finally realizes that her life means nothing to her people. She definitely has no idea about the darker side of things. She really does come off as an naive idealist to me as well.
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Old 2014-10-15, 18:42   Link #1944
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Originally Posted by Slaine View Post
The princess seems genuinely unaware of her people's unhappiness. Unhappiness great enough to lead to assassination/war. She's grown up being told she is the beloved princess of Vers and then all of a sudden everyone wants her dead. Even after her UN address she is shocked that it had no effect whatsoever and finally realizes that her life means nothing to her people. She definitely has no idea about the darker side of things. She really does come off as an naive idealist to me as well.
How did you get from "seems" to "definitely"?

The very fact that she has a disguise, the fact that she has some training in martial arts, the fact that Eddelrittuo, a 13-year old, can pilot a Kat, means that they're unaware that an attempted assassination is a possibility?

To relate it to real life, have leaders such as the US President in the course of history avoided good will tours etc because of a fear of an assassination attempt?

Could she not be shocked by the fact that she didn't realise that the ill-sentiment was that widespread amongst the knights? And 'everyone wants her dead' is a bit of a stretch as well.

I'm really not trying to pick a fight: just wanted to point out that all of you pushing this line are making some rather fine assumptions in your interpretations of the character.

If you recognise this, great. Please just stop trying to push your interpretation onto the rest of us as if it were 'fact'.
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How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru volume 34

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You must free yourself from that illusion,
from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end.


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Old 2014-10-15, 19:05   Link #1945
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They don't need to spell it out for us because of how her character is portrayed. She's the sheltered innocent princess archetype. Admittedly she is more capable than average and as you noted, has undergone some self-defense.

Her disguise is to make her look like an earthling. To blend in with typical humans when she wants to relax for all we know.

Edd can pilot, maybe that and the self-defense training has to do with Vers culture. All we've seen of Vers are combat capable people now that I think of it.

But yeah, I'm sure she is aware of there being dangers. People warn her of it so it's obvious she has that intelligence available at least. I don't think she was aware of the martian assassination attempt though. Her security detail seemed to think something was possibly up and insisted on the switch that saved her life. Unsung hero, that guy was.

IIRC she had no idea it was a martian plot and assumed it was all a misunderstanding.

As for her reaction after the address? I don't think so. She didn't even suspect it was a martian attack to begin with, did she? And if she is getting surprised at the sheer scale of animosity then she isn't seeing the real picture anyway.

She simply had no idea that her life meant nothing to so many. Whether she was alive or not, had no bearing. All they wanted was war. She realized it then and there.
Everyone wants her dead is indeed a stretch. I just mean nearly every martian we encounter. Whether or not they are the minority or not is yet to be seen.
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Old 2014-10-15, 19:12   Link #1946
karice67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaine View Post
They don't need to spell it out for us because of how her character is portrayed. She's the sheltered innocent princess archetype. Admittedly she is more capable than average and as you noted, has undergone some self-defense.

Her disguise is to make her look like an earthling. To blend in with typical humans when she wants to relax for all we know.

Edd can pilot, maybe that and the self-defense training has to do with Vers culture. All we've seen of Vers are combat capable people now that I think of it.

But yeah, I'm sure she is aware of there being dangers. People warn her of it so it's obvious she has that intelligence available at least. I don't think she was aware of the martian assassination attempt though. Her security detail seemed to think something was possibly up and insisted on the switch that saved her life. Unsung hero, that guy was.

IIRC she had no idea it was a martian plot and assumed it was all a misunderstanding.

As for her reaction after the address? I don't think so. She didn't even suspect it was a martian attack to begin with, did she? And if she is getting surprised at the sheer scale of animosity then she isn't seeing the real picture anyway.

She simply had no idea that her life meant nothing to so many. Whether she was alive or not, had no bearing. All they wanted was war. She realized it then and there.
Everyone wants her dead is indeed a stretch. I just mean nearly every martian we encounter. Whether or not they are the minority or not is yet to be seen.
Actually, you remember incorrectly: maybe you need to watch the show again.
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How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru volume 34

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You must free yourself from that illusion,
from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end.


"No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.
- Patrick Stokes

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Old 2014-10-15, 19:24   Link #1947
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Nvm. It was episode 4.
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Old 2014-10-15, 19:42   Link #1948
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This show needs actual competent writers and animators. The last scene of episode 12 was such an incomprehensible mess. Just how did Asseylum flew meters away when she should be on the floor near Inaho, but somehow she did only to have a dramatic crawl to her. Then suddenly Slaine, who should be in front of Inaho (because he was far from the scene and facing it) magically transported himself behind him ninja style. I won't touch to where did he go later.

Seriously, they are so laughably bad in storytelling in general (from a visual and script viewpoint) that execute poorly their ideas.
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Old 2014-10-15, 19:45   Link #1949
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Edit: So they did definitely know about the rebels. Why the hell did the emperor not even consider Slaine's warning then? Illness and ratial enmity? I wonder why Slaine didn't even know about the rebels initially if she knew. Maybe they aren't as close as we initially thought. So she knew enough that there were rebels but still surprised that they wanted war so badly that it didn't matter if she was alive or dead. I guess she knew more than I suspected but not enough to realize the reasoning or depth of the rebel's cause.

Ya, you know- some weird ass animation in that series. Didn't the director actually comment on how poor that ending scene with Slaine walking towards the princess was?

On another note: When Slaine fired at Inaho.

Anyone think that was a warning shot? He seemed hesitant/conflicted whereas Inaho was certain.

Last edited by Slaine; 2014-10-15 at 20:06.
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Old 2014-10-15, 20:29   Link #1950
karice67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
This show needs actual competent writers and animators. The last scene of episode 12 was such an incomprehensible mess. Just how did Asseylum flew meters away when she should be on the floor near Inaho, but somehow she did only to have a dramatic crawl to her. Then suddenly Slaine, who should be in front of Inaho (because he was far from the scene and facing it) magically transported himself behind him ninja style. I won't touch to where did he go later.
'flew meters'? It looks to me like Inaho crawled about 1.5 meters at most before he pushed himself up.

And why should Slaine have been in front of Inaho? He seems to have been between Saazbaum and the two of them, perhaps slightly off to the side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Seriously, they are so laughably bad in storytelling in general (from a visual and script viewpoint) that execute poorly their ideas.
Since you obviously know better, perhaps you should go and become an animator/writer etc etc then?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaine View Post
Ya, you know- some weird ass animation in that series. Didn't the director actually comment on how poor that ending scene with Slaine walking towards the princess was?.
Well, are you absolutely sure that he was walking towards the princess?
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How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru volume 34

Interview translations etc

You must free yourself from that illusion,
from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end.


"No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.
- Patrick Stokes

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Old 2014-10-15, 20:47   Link #1951
Thess
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
'flew meters'? It looks to me like Inaho crawled about 1.5 meters at most before he pushed himself up.

And why should Slaine have been in front of Inaho? He seems to have been between Saazbaum and the two of them, perhaps slightly off to the side.
Please re-watch the scene, there's a layout of around 2 meters or more when he crawls.

Saazbaum was behind Asseylum-in front of Inaho and Slaine was between them but with a good distance. Slaine should have been positioned behind Asseylum's body and facing Inaho because behind Inaho was the Sleipnir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Since you obviously know better, perhaps you should go and become an animator/writer etc etc then?
Yes, because legitimate criticism means I have to do it. Why are you so overdefensive by obvious unprofessional mistakes? That's unusually childish of you. Why not hire someone competent of the field, instead of giving the job to obvious mediocre to bad people?
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Old 2014-10-15, 20:58   Link #1952
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Indifference because the show never really went anywhere. The only thing that wasn't generic was the ending

Too bad that nobody will stay dead
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Old 2014-10-15, 21:06   Link #1953
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I can't find it. I was pretty sure it was mentioned in an interview recently that he was walking towards the princess.
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Old 2014-10-15, 23:16   Link #1954
karice67
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Please re-watch the scene, there's a layout of around 2 meters or more when he crawls.
I did, and I really don't see him pulling himself more than about 1-1.5 metres. Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Saazbaum was behind Asseylum-in front of Inaho and Slaine was between them but with a good distance. Slaine should have been positioned behind Asseylum's body and facing Inaho because behind Inaho was the Sleipnir.
Because Slaine was on the Tharsis?

Maybe you should watch the scene again. Because Slaine had gotten off the Tharsis long before that point.

16:23 - Just for reference: the structure of the chamber housing the Aldnoah Drive.

17:18 - Slaine climbs out of the Tharsis. We hear him start moving towards where he thinks Saazbaum should be.

17:32 - Slaine has climbed down from the Tharsis and moved onto the dais, whilst Asseylum has descended to the very bottom of the chamber. She's opened the cockpit to the Sleipnir and is looking into it, with her back to Slaine. When Slaine hears her voice, he turns around where he is, in between Asseylum and Saazbaum but off to one side (on the dais).

18:08 - Asseylum moved towards Inaho with the impact of the first bullet, meaning that it came from behind her as she was looking at Inaho. She even turned around to look at where it came from. When the second bullet hit, it caught her at an angle, causing her head to whip around and sending her to the floor. (NB: I'm also happy to agree to disagree over how far she should have been thrown by the impact.)

18:11 - At this point, Slaine has climbed down onto the same level that Asseylum is on, and was looking at Asseylem and Inaho. After realising what's happened, he whips his head around to the left and sees Saazbaum, turns on the spot and shoots him. This means that, from Saazbaum's perspective, he should be to the right of the straight line to Asseylum.


So why is Slaine meant to be behind Asseylum's body and facing Inaho?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Yes, because legitimate criticism means I have to do it. Why are you so overdefensive by obvious unprofessional mistakes? That's unusually childish of you. Why not hire someone competent of the field, instead of giving the job to obvious mediocre to bad people?
"Legitimate criticism"?

By my estimate, a lot of your criticism is, at best, extremely biased. Perhaps we need to agree to disagree on this as well.

Also, you and I seem to regard different kinds of behaviour as childish. For me, what I find most childish is people complaining about the same thing over and over again. We heard you the first time, even the second and third times. Do you really think you need to make the point 10 times over?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaine View Post
I can't find it. I was pretty sure it was mentioned in an interview recently that he was walking towards the princess.
You mean this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjoergyn View Post
【A/Zトークショーレポ】

Q スレイン君は姫様に恋してるの?12話の最後、嫉妬っぽいけど…
A 1クールではあんまり描いてないけど、2クールを見てもらったら「嫉妬」ではなく「別の目的」があるこ とがわかる。12話でスレインが立ち去った時、一体どこへ歩いて行ったのか、がヒントらしい

My translation (-karice):

Q: Was Slaine in love with the princess? At the end of ep 12, it seemed like he was jealous...
A: It wasn't really depicted in the first cour, but if you watch the second cour, you'll realise that it wasn't jealousy, but something else. Where Slaine departs to in episode 12, where he is heading when he walks off, is a hint.
It was an A/Z talk event held at ufotable (the cinema) in Tokushima.
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How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru volume 34

Interview translations etc

You must free yourself from that illusion,
from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end.


"No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.
- Patrick Stokes


Last edited by karice67; 2014-10-16 at 22:11.
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Old 2014-10-15, 23:27   Link #1955
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
So, even though it's possible that it's not true, you keep pushing that line because it's your preference?

NB: I'm not trying to argue, I just want to verify what your position is.
I'm saying that based on her attitude she doesn't seem to care, but I really do want to be wrong. Its an conclusion reached from an observation, and again I would really like to be wrong.

Quote:
Is that stated anywhere in the show that that's all it was?

I also just remembered another scene: what do you make of Asseylum's reaction to Rayet's description of the Vers system in episode 8?
Was it ever stated that it wasn't?

It seemed like she was in somewhat of a shock from finding out about Rayet then again, it could just be a momentary surprise. Its really too early to tell. I mean Asseylum wasn't exactly in a position where she could do anything was she?
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Old 2014-10-15, 23:34   Link #1956
karice67
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
I'm saying that based on her attitude she doesn't seem to care, but I really do want to be wrong. Its an conclusion reached from an observation, and again I would really like to be wrong.
Sorry, I misread your statement in the post at the top of the page. m(_ _ )m

To me personally, based on her reactions in the scenes in question (episode 4, episode 8, episode 10, for example), Asseylum does seem to care, though I'd assume she has no idea what she can do about it at this point. Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Was it ever stated that it wasn't?

It seemed like she was in somewhat of a shock from finding out about Rayet then again, it could just be a momentary surprise. Its really too early to tell. I mean Asseylum wasn't exactly in a position where she could do anything was she?
So we can agree that it cannot be confirmed either way? That is all I'm getting at, really. We don't actually know how much or how little Asseylum knows. So it would be nice to see statements of opinion rather than statements of fact. Just suggesting.
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How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru volume 34

Interview translations etc

You must free yourself from that illusion,
from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end.


"No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.
- Patrick Stokes


Last edited by karice67; 2014-10-16 at 02:00.
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Old 2014-10-15, 23:57   Link #1957
monster
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Originally Posted by Death Usagi View Post
Saazbaum said there are allies in the Moon Base who feel the same way as him. He never said they are his subordinates.
Do you remember what episode he said this?
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Old 2014-10-16, 05:04   Link #1958
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Do you remember what episode he said this?
Ep 10, around the time he shot of Slaine's cuffs.
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Old 2014-10-16, 06:18   Link #1959
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Kar, you come off as the type who needs things explicitly stated. That is an ok way to be but few things are without a shadow of a doubt. At the very least, it's fine to reinforce something, especially the obvious. If it turns out to be proven false by others or contradicted later than welcome to one way discussion works. I'm not trying to make an attack. I just disagree that you need things completely spelled out.

I do think she cares about her people. Her whole character seems to be based on the fact that she cares but isn't in a position to do anything about it. Of course even that is just an interpretation. Technically she cares less about her people than she does about human beings(terran/Vers) in general. If you look at it from another angle, if she really cared about her people, then she would have been spearheading a war for resources instead of pushing peace.

Saaz cares more about the people than her I would say. He also has a lot of hatred and personal motivations but nevertheless, at least for the martians, his plot is righteous. He's an anti-hero at worst for them.

Anyway, she definitely knew enough to be aware of rebels but I still think suggesting she knows the gravity of what her people are facing isn't right. She probably never would have gone to earth if she realized the true threat. The rebels going so far as to use her peace-making trip as an impetus for war, how large their play turned out to be, the complexity and reach of it was more than she expected. I'd now say she was aware of gale/unrest but not that it was actually a category 10 hurricane. So saying she has incomplete knowledge/awareness of her empire seems fair at the least.

This makes the fact that the emperor responded to Slaine's warning so odd. If she knew there were rebels than he had to know as well. Not giving Slaine any consideration must mean he is extremely sick in the head, racist, gullible or all of the above.

And no, that line you quoted wasn't what I read. I can't find it so forget it.

As for the quality of Aldnoah? It's ok, it is one of the more interesting anime in recent years and being fun is more important than being well crafted at a technical level. That said, very few anime/manga titles leave me thinking they deserve a spot among the best western works.
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Old 2014-10-16, 06:26   Link #1960
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Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X View Post
Ep 10, around the time he shot of Slaine's cuffs.
I wish I could forget that happening. That was a Kururugi Suzaku level stunt.
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