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Blueknight78 · 2017-10-01, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixth

https://youtu.be/PhCIenyqK5E?t=1m14s

Goku said that Vegeta became SSB on his own effort.

That is why I said Manga and Anime are very different.

yeah manga and anime must be threath as "differente" sources, because while somethings are equal overal they are differente specially in the "outcome".

goku in anime is just a bad father and poor husband(still kiss chichi)
goku in manga is a totally asshole father and husband(leaving his wife pregnant alone and don't kissing her and dsilking his son not being a battlemanic as himself).

Ruki0089 · 2017-10-01, 12:20

And some people surprised seeing Goku like that... Don't understand why... I heard some people thought Goku is a Hero for Justice... Pffff...

Tong · 2017-10-01, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

@Tong: So Goku and Vegeta don't keep their God ki from leaking out to complete Super Saiyan Blue in the anime? But isn't that what would complete Super Saiyan Blue? And since when does Vegeta know the Kaiouken (if you mean Vegeta can also use the Super Saiyan Blue Kaiouken form)? I know Vegeta can use the completed Super Saiyan Blue in the manga, where the God ki doesn't leak.

I meant in the manga, Vegeta obviously cant use kaioken.
SSB Full Power is also a manga exclusive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruki0089

And some people surprised seeing Goku like that... Don't understand why... I heard some people thought Goku is a Hero for Justice... Pffff...

Blame FUNimation version of Goku. Goku has always been, and will always be, a martial artist who lives for the thrill of battle and always seek the strongest opponent.

Ruki0089 · 2017-10-01, 12:35

Yeah, that's why I find it funny... A battle maniac to hero?? Hah! That's funny...

DragonOsman · 2017-10-01, 13:00

He did still have the Earth countless times, though, even in the original DB/Z manga series. He may have done it mainly because he just likes to fight stronger and stronger opponents (he's a pureblooded Saiyan, after all), but that doesn't change that he did save the world. And at least part of the reason he did it was because he did genuinely want to save the world. And he does have a pure heart, or else he wouldn't be able to ride Kinto'un or use the Genki Dama.

Anyway, please clarify it for me: Goku is a terrible father in the anime, as well, right? But what about him as a husband? Has he really never kissed Chichi according to the anime as well? Or have they already kissed according to the anime?

Kanon · 2017-10-01, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

@Kanon: I'm caught up with the manga and am now on episode 10 (will watch it soon) of the anime. So I need to ask: is the manga completely different from the anime? And can we consider the additional info about the Gods of Destruction in the manga as canon?

What's happening with the DBS manga and anime is that Toriyama gives a rough outline of the story to both Toei and Toyotaro and they're free to do whatever they want with it. Toriyama encourages Toyotaro in particular to introduce his own ideas into the manga.

This leads to some major differences, like Trunks getting an entirely new form that puts him near Super Saiyan Blue level in the anime, whereas in the manga he only plays a support role and gets healing powers. The only way you can tell if something was in Toriyama's outline is if it happens in both mediums, like Trunks cutting merged Zamasu in half, turning him into an even bigger threat in the process. Or Vegetto showing up and unfusing after five minutes because mortals can't stay fused permanently with the potara fusion.

So to sum it up, there is no way to know if the info about the GoDs is also canon to the anime unless it shows up there too. For all we know, Belmoud is a nice guy in the anime.

As others have said, you should consider the anime and manga both have their own separate canon. You'll notice yourself as you progress through the anime that even though they're supposed to tell the same story, they are completely incompatible.

Edit: Goku said he's never kissed Chichi in the anime as well.

DragonOsman · 2017-10-01, 13:06

So basically, even though it's generally the same story, there are minor differences. And the difference in the manga aren't canon to the anime and likely aren't included in Toriyama's outline. Right?

Kanon · 2017-10-01, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

So basically, even though it's generally the same story, there are minor differences. And the difference in the manga aren't canon to the anime and likely aren't included in Toriyama's outline. Right?

It's actually impossible to tell which is more faithful to Toriyama's outline. People tend to think the manga is more faithful because Toriyama works more closely with Toyotaro, but as I said, he encourages him to use his own ideas too, which he definitely has (some things come straight from his DBAF doujin). Both the manga and anime just fill in the blanks in Toriyama's outline with whatever they see fit. IMO neither is more "canon" than the other.

Blueknight78 · 2017-10-01, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

Edit: Goku said he's never kissed Chichi in the anime as well.

actually afar i remember no, he never told it in anime, it was manga only,it was f ressurection or it was god battle where we had a scene of goku kissing chichi.

DragonOsman · 2017-10-01, 14:05

So I guess I'll have to keep watching to find out if Goku has ever kissed Chichi according to the anime.

Tong · 2017-10-01, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

He did still have the Earth countless times, though, even in the original DB/Z manga series. He may have done it mainly because he just likes to fight stronger and stronger opponents (he's a pureblooded Saiyan, after all), but that doesn't change that he did save the world. And at least part of the reason he did it was because he did genuinely want to save the world. And he does have a pure heart, or else he wouldn't be able to ride Kinto'un or use the Genki Dama.

Exactly, but he still did some pretty questionable things for the sake of battle, like telling Krillin to not kill Vegeta just because he wanted to fight him again (turns out it was a good idea anyways lol) and giving Cell a senzu bean.
Toriyama himself said that Goku, despite having a pure heart, still has a "darker" traits.

Quote:

There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I’ve always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn’t quite get them to grasp the elements of “poison” that slip in and out of sight among the shadows.

DragonOsman · 2017-10-01, 15:41

^Yeah, if even the author said that, it's official. Goku has a darker side to him within that pure heart.

By the way. I just watched episode 12. It seems Goku and Beerus are evenly matched? Or is Beerus still holding back? But, yeah, another shockwave without Goku being able to cancel out Beerus's power and the universe will be destroyed.

Ruki0089 · 2017-10-01, 15:48

Beers pretty much holding back during this fight... If he want, he can beat Goku there...

DragonOsman · 2017-10-01, 15:53

He said he was going to use his full power. And he's been powering up his ki a whole lot throughout their fight for a while, in episodes 10 - 12. I know it's possible he's still been holding back, but if he's really holding back even after saying he was going to use his full power, Goku's pride as a Saiyan would be hurt, wouldn't it? I don't think Beerus cares about that, but still.

And there's also the fact that the Elder Kaiou said that if Beerus were to use his full power, their fight would destroy the universe. And he also said when the shockwaves from their clashes were being created that the universe would be destroyed with 2 and a half clashes. Goku managed to cancel out Beerus's power in the third clash, though, so the universe wasn't destroyed. But if Goku had failed in doing that, the universe would've been destroyed.

Edit: And oh look, the preview script for Episode 12 in Episode 13 also said that Beerus was using his full power.

But that creates a problem. If Goku's already strong enough to go toe to toe with Beerus, why was he having such a hard time against Zamasu even with SSGSS? Beerus should be a lot more powerful than Zamasu. Something doesn't add up if Beerus is really using his full power here.

Ruki0089 · 2017-10-01, 16:02

He said he using full power but he actually lied... in manga, the moment he get serious he beat Super Saiyan blue complete Vegeta so easily...

DragonOsman · 2017-10-01, 16:14

Yeah, I just saw it. He cancelled out the energy that would've destroyed the universe, and he said that he can do that if he uses 100% power. So he was still hiding something.

Ruki0089 · 2017-10-01, 16:18

Lol, he actually not even use 100%...

DragonOsman · 2017-10-01, 16:27

But they still continued after that point, and Goku still has the power of a God inside him even though the Super Saiyan God form is gone and he's back in the regular Super Saiyan form now? And Beerus said he could only cancel out that power that could've destroyed the universe when he's using 100% power. He lied again? Well, he should still be holding back because otherwise, Goku having so much trouble against Zamasu would make no sense.

alex_drian · 2017-10-01, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruki0089

Lol, he actually not even use 100%...

Like 20 or 25%

alex_drian · 2017-10-01, 16:39

Is true that the pace of the story in manga are a bit more ordered, the manga have thing that I don't like, for example the SSB Full Power seems to me a silly idea. And I like more the fight with Zanmasu in the anime even for the bombastic of the situation.

I'm a simple person, you give me cool action scenes and I'm satisfied. Yeah, Black getting more and more weird powers, Super Zanmasu spreading in the universe and more, Super Saiyan Rage and of course the Genki Sword were weird and ridiculous but I challenge you to tell me that wasn't entertaining.

2017-10-01, 12:20	Link #22
Ruki0089 Yandere Otoko Ruki-tan Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Earth 616	And some people surprised seeing Goku like that... Don't understand why... I heard some people thought Goku is a Hero for Justice... Pffff... __________________

2017-10-01, 12:35	Link #24
Ruki0089 Yandere Otoko Ruki-tan Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Earth 616	Yeah, that's why I find it funny... A battle maniac to hero?? Hah! That's funny... __________________

2017-10-01, 13:00	Link #25
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	He did still have the Earth countless times, though, even in the original DB/Z manga series. He may have done it mainly because he just likes to fight stronger and stronger opponents (he's a pureblooded Saiyan, after all), but that doesn't change that he did save the world. And at least part of the reason he did it was because he did genuinely want to save the world. And he does have a pure heart, or else he wouldn't be able to ride Kinto'un or use the Genki Dama. Anyway, please clarify it for me: Goku is a terrible father in the anime, as well, right? But what about him as a husband? Has he really never kissed Chichi according to the anime as well? Or have they already kissed according to the anime? __________________

2017-10-01, 13:06	Link #27
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	So basically, even though it's generally the same story, there are minor differences. And the difference in the manga aren't canon to the anime and likely aren't included in Toriyama's outline. Right? __________________

2017-10-01, 14:05	Link #30
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	So I guess I'll have to keep watching to find out if Goku has ever kissed Chichi according to the anime. __________________

2017-10-01, 15:41	Link #32
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	^Yeah, if even the author said that, it's official. Goku has a darker side to him within that pure heart. By the way. I just watched episode 12. It seems Goku and Beerus are evenly matched? Or is Beerus still holding back? But, yeah, another shockwave without Goku being able to cancel out Beerus's power and the universe will be destroyed. __________________

2017-10-01, 15:48	Link #33
Ruki0089 Yandere Otoko Ruki-tan Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Earth 616	Beers pretty much holding back during this fight... If he want, he can beat Goku there... __________________ Last edited by Ruki0089; 2017-10-01 at 19:13.

2017-10-01, 15:53	Link #34
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	He said he was going to use his full power. And he's been powering up his ki a whole lot throughout their fight for a while, in episodes 10 - 12. I know it's possible he's still been holding back, but if he's really holding back even after saying he was going to use his full power, Goku's pride as a Saiyan would be hurt, wouldn't it? I don't think Beerus cares about that, but still. And there's also the fact that the Elder Kaiou said that if Beerus were to use his full power, their fight would destroy the universe. And he also said when the shockwaves from their clashes were being created that the universe would be destroyed with 2 and a half clashes. Goku managed to cancel out Beerus's power in the third clash, though, so the universe wasn't destroyed. But if Goku had failed in doing that, the universe would've been destroyed. Edit: And oh look, the preview script for Episode 12 in Episode 13 also said that Beerus was using his full power. But that creates a problem. If Goku's already strong enough to go toe to toe with Beerus, why was he having such a hard time against Zamasu even with SSGSS? Beerus should be a lot more powerful than Zamasu. Something doesn't add up if Beerus is really using his full power here. __________________

2017-10-01, 16:02	Link #35
Ruki0089 Yandere Otoko Ruki-tan Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Earth 616	He said he using full power but he actually lied... in manga, the moment he get serious he beat Super Saiyan blue complete Vegeta so easily... __________________

2017-10-01, 16:14	Link #36
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	Yeah, I just saw it. He cancelled out the energy that would've destroyed the universe, and he said that he can do that if he uses 100% power. So he was still hiding something. __________________

2017-10-01, 16:18	Link #37
Ruki0089 Yandere Otoko Ruki-tan Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Earth 616	Lol, he actually not even use 100%... __________________

2017-10-01, 16:27	Link #38
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	But they still continued after that point, and Goku still has the power of a God inside him even though the Super Saiyan God form is gone and he's back in the regular Super Saiyan form now? And Beerus said he could only cancel out that power that could've destroyed the universe when he's using 100% power. He lied again? Well, he should still be holding back because otherwise, Goku having so much trouble against Zamasu would make no sense. __________________

2017-10-01, 16:39	Link #40
alex_drian Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015	Is true that the pace of the story in manga are a bit more ordered, the manga have thing that I don't like, for example the SSB Full Power seems to me a silly idea. And I like more the fight with Zanmasu in the anime even for the bombastic of the situation. I'm a simple person, you give me cool action scenes and I'm satisfied. Yeah, Black getting more and more weird powers, Super Zanmasu spreading in the universe and more, Super Saiyan Rage and of course the Genki Sword were weird and ridiculous but I challenge you to tell me that wasn't entertaining.