GATE - Character Discussion - Lelei La Lalena

[David375]

But seriously, I'd love to see if the screen writers make up some sort of comical scene where she finds something on the internet that she shouldn't, like the Princess with the comic books.

[SPARTAN 119]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

So the latest episode reminded me of a small detail I forgot when reading the manga:

Leilei bought a laptop.

And note that Alnus base is said to have internet in earlier chapters/episodes.

THE INTERNET.

May whoever diety she worships have mercy on Leilei's soul...

Originally Posted by nojay

And hope she doesn't find this thread on Animesuki or she'll be able to really foretell the future what with all the spoilers people keep dumping here.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

So if she reads about the future plot of the anime from within the anime she could make decisions that would change the plot of the anime?

That's some Inception-level stuff there.

Originally Posted by David375

But seriously, I'd love to see if the screen writers make up some sort of comical scene where she finds something on the internet that she shouldn't, like the Princess with the comic books.

I have an idea for a fanfic related to this.

I don't know if the laptop was in the manga, so this give the potential for some new material with regard to comedy here. Given the speed at which Lelei learns to speak the Japanese language, I would not be surprised if she would be able to read it soon, if she can't already. Which would open her up to the full world of online insanity.

Also, I can only imagine what happens when the rest of the Special Region gets internet service. It would probably take centuries, but given all of the various types of humanoids in the Special Region, lets just say it would open plenty of new options for the seediest underbelly of the internet.

That said, the light novels say that

Spoiler for Light novel/future manga spoilers:

the gods of the Special Region are opposed to sudden shifts in technology based on outside help, so this probably won't happen unless either the JSDF finds some method of deicide, which is possible, knowing Yanai's nationalism, I doubt he would make the JSDF settle from second-most powerful faction in his universe. Either that, or it's possible that technological advancement could be allowed by Rory and god- mode!Itami (I believe he becomes Rory's apostle) becoming pro-technology gods.

Still, disregarding that bit of overthinking if the internet and other technology does eventually diffuse into the Special Region, I expect there would be some rather bizarre stuff on there...

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

So if she reads about the future plot of the anime from within the anime she could make decisions that would change the plot of the anime?

That's some Inception-level stuff there.

That might make a pretty interesting fan fic though!

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'm not sure such a rule would be very practical for a tribe of nomads.

Thing is Lelei is clueless that sleeping is a euphemism for sex.

So by the standards of her own culture she isn't married as Itami didn't fuck her for three consecutive nights.

Itami has that protective instinct for Lelei as noted by his ex-wife. Unlike Rory which may be loophole in consent laws Lelei is a definite "I'll go to jail if I touch her".

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Thing is Lelei is clueless that sleeping is a euphemism for sex.

So by the standards of her own culture she isn't married as Itami didn't fuck her for three consecutive nights.

Itami has that protective instinct for Lelei as noted by his ex-wife. Unlike Rory which may be loophole in consent laws Lelei is a definite "I'll go to jail if I touch her".

As I said in the recent episode discussion, are you saying this based on information from the novels, or are you simply deciding this based on your own views? If it's the former, cool, but if it's the latter, you have no more basis for this than those of us that assume this is legit. There really are cultures that have such obscure rules about marriage, and don't ever involve sex in their judgments. In such situations, even if both parties are proven to have never had sex, the general population would treat it as a marriage and any issues that would be affected by a person's marital status would be affected by this.

If the language used in the anime is the same as that used in the novels, I find it slightly doubtful that this is a matter of Lelei misunderstanding the meaning of the law. Yes, plenty of terms act as euphemisms, but the specific word used, as well as the context it's used in have a strong effect on this. I've heard "Daku"(embrace) used frequently to mean sex, but I don't think I've ever heard "Dakishimeru" (also embrace) used like that. Similarly "sleep with"(... to neru) is something I've heard used as a euphemism, but not "sleep together"(... to ISSHO NI neru).

Additionally, does it ever say that this is a tradition of her tribe? I didn't see that in the anime at least, they just said that two unrelated people who share a room for three nights are deemed husband and wife. Whether this is a rule of Lelei's tribe, a rule of the region around Rondel, or a rule accepted by most of the common folk of the Special Region is not clearly stated.

[TheRealWinston]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Additionally, does it ever say that this is a tradition of her tribe? I didn't see that in the anime at least, they just said that two unrelated people who share a room for three nights are deemed husband and wife. Whether this is a rule of Lelei's tribe, a rule of the region around Rondel, or a rule accepted by most of the common folk of the Special Region is not clearly stated.

Afaik and remember, it was stated in the anime that this is a rule of Lelei's tribe.


Anyway, I actually wonder if Lelei sleeped on purpose with Itami in the same room.

And does the second and third time actually count, since they weren't alone.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by TheRealWinston

Afaik and remember, it was stated in the anime that this is a rule of Lelei's tribe.


Anyway, I actually wonder if Lelei sleeped on purpose with Itami in the same room.

And does the second and third time actually count, since they weren't alone.

I watched back over the scene, and they don't say a single thing about her tribe. I suspect people assumed that this was a tradition specific to her tribe and went with it, but there is nothing I see to suggest that this is necessarily the case. It could be a rule of her tribe, or a local rule around Rondel, or a rule that the common folk of the Empire all accept. Also, what we know of the law doesn't make any rules about the presence or absence of other individuals in the room. All it says is that if a girl sleeps together with a boy three times she's married to him (I'm sure there are some age limits, possibly in connection to the question of sanity).

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

I watched back over the scene, and they don't say a single thing about her tribe. I suspect people assumed that this was a tradition specific to her tribe and went with it, but there is nothing I see to suggest that this is necessarily the case. It could be a rule of her tribe, or a local rule around Rondel, or a rule that the common folk of the Empire all accept. Also, what we know of the law doesn't make any rules about the presence or absence of other individuals in the room. All it says is that if a girl sleeps together with a boy three times she's married to him (I'm sure there are some age limits, possibly in connection to the question of sanity).

My point from earlier stands; The fact that Itami never knew he was suppose to be married, combined with how he never had sex with her, is more than enough to invalidate the legality of Lelei's claim if he wanted to.

Why? Because it might seem harmless here, but if you reverse the genders of the parties involved then you could see the problem. It might seems like a harem anime gag for a girl to suddenly force a guy to marry her without his prior knowledge , but the entire situation becomes much more horrible if it is a guy doing it to a girl. If Itami isn't allowed to trick a girl into marrying him, I fail to see why the reverse is any more legit. Lelei was counting on everyone else taking her word over his, and having people make assumptions that he must have had sex with her. Because she knows people would not question it too much.

[jasper222]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

My point from earlier stands; The fact that Itami never knew he was suppose to be married, combined with how he never had sex with her, is more than enough to invalidate the legality of Lelei's claim if he wanted to.

Why? Because it might seem harmless here, but if you reverse the genders of the parties involved then you could see the problem. It might seems like a harem anime gag for a girl to suddenly force a guy to marry her without his prior knowledge , but the entire situation becomes much more horrible if it is a guy doing it to a girl. If Itami isn't allowed to trick a girl into marrying him, I fail to see why the reverse is any more legit. Lelei was counting on everyone else taking her word over his, and having people make assumptions that he must have had sex with her. Because she knows people would not question it too much.

Double standards exist in any world where humans are, at least. They're no exception.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by jasper222

Double standards exist in any world where humans are, at least. They're no exception.

In this case it doesn't change the law. The only reason Lelei's claim is supported and believed is because sex is assumed to have taken place. That is the only reason.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

In this case it doesn't change the law. The only reason Lelei's claim is supported and believed is because sex is assumed to have taken place. That is the only reason.

Sex is assumed to have taken place because all of the girls are hot for Itami and that assumption makes them do and say humorous things. They know him better than we do, well enough to change their cultural expectations, and we know he would never do that. Not at this point, at least. Whether that assumption is legally implied is speculation, unless it's in the source material.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

My point from earlier stands; The fact that Itami never knew he was suppose to be married, combined with how he never had sex with her, is more than enough to invalidate the legality of Lelei's claim if he wanted to.

Why? Because it might seem harmless here, but if you reverse the genders of the parties involved then you could see the problem. It might seems like a harem anime gag for a girl to suddenly force a guy to marry her without his prior knowledge , but the entire situation becomes much more horrible if it is a guy doing it to a girl. If Itami isn't allowed to trick a girl into marrying him, I fail to see why the reverse is any more legit. Lelei was counting on everyone else taking her word over his, and having people make assumptions that he must have had sex with her. Because she knows people would not question it too much.

Once again, your statement does not hold water. Why? Because you give absolutely no evidence to prove that the rule involved sexual intercourse and not just a sleeping arrangement. If you have no evidence from the material to suggest that the rule was actually stipulating marriage following sex, it amounts to nothing more than your opinion that a marriage contract of this sort must be about a prior sexual relationship. And yet again, there are actual ancient cultures that had rules this strange and stranger that did not involve sex in any way, so the assumption that a law like this has to be about sex is simply incorrect. It may be about sex, we won't know for certain unless the law is more clearly defined and the question is directly raised, but for now there is not a shred of evidence that the law says anything except that two people sleeping beside each other on three nights qualifies as marriage, something that can but does not have to involve sex or even kissing. And this is something that Itami has done. He slept next to Lelei on three occasions, which qualifies with the statements made about the law.
I agree that a person forcing another into marriage using laws they didn't know about is not a cool thing, and on one level I am ashamed to be so entertained, but even the double standard has no bearing on the matter. I've heard of stories where a girl is forced into marriage by accident or trickery, with the result often being cruel but sometimes treated as "romantic", so this really isn't anything new. All the information we have been given provides us with no reason to doubt the validity of the marriage except on a desperate moral objection to the situation, but not wanting something to be valid has absolutely no impact on its validity.

[Harbinger]

Well, in the "extra" chapters (that was skipped), Lelei has seen how much Itami

Spoiler for Stuff from Manga:

is willing to risk his life for her. He also indirectly did something else to her. I'm trying to stay as vague as possible

I'm personally surprised that Lelei brought this up. I only saw the relation between Itami and Lelei as... well, Itami as a father protecting his daughter. Apparently, Lelei might be seeing it otherwise.

I don't think it's going to go anywhere (this relation). We never know... this might end up being one huge Harem

Spoiler for Anime spoilers --- if you are watching episode by episode, you're totally fine:

if the Gate shuts down on them

.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I guess then it is appropriate some GATE citizens start tricking more JSDF soldiers into marriage against their will. I am surprised at how people are so relaxed about it all. If I can force a woman into becoming my wife, without her ever being told about it, I think it is high time it is abused as much as it could go.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I guess then it is appropriate some GATE citizens start tricking more JSDF soldiers into marriage against their will. I am surprised at how people are so relaxed about it all. If I can force a woman into becoming my wife, without her ever being told about it, I think it is high time it is abused as much as it could go.

Sadly, this or equally contemptible things were quite common in medieval times. Women really didn't have much rights when it came to marriage. Common women had it somewhat better off than noblewomen since their marriage provided less benefit and common suitors had less influence, but still it was not difficult for a man to find a way to get a wife without her wanting to be his wife. Maybe that's part of the reason I find it amusing and refreshing to see a medieval girl lay her own traps and nab herself a man against HIS will instead.

And Itami's got it better than a lot of people: he likes her plenty, the only thing really stopping him from viewing her as a potential romantic interest is her age. Actually, I think that's the biggest problem for all the girls, since even Tuka looks only 16. I'm definitely not saying he'd have said "OK" to a "we're married now" declaration by a hot 20-year-old, but I am saying that he very well may have responded to the girls' blatant romantic interest by now if he didn't look at them and see kids. And at least his bride is two years away from "adult" rather than six.

Anyway, I suspect Itami's going to have to make a report about this, to warn the rest of the SDF that they need to take care about who they sleep next to and how often; I also suspect that if his superiors hear that he's accidentally married a girl by rule of local custom, they'll tall him c'est la vie, but not to do anything he can't take back at least until she's grown and the relations have settled somewhat. Why do I say this? Because as I'd mentioned when talking about Sugawara's situation, respecting local beliefs and customs is important when trying to develop relations with a foreign nation, especially customs as important as marriage. Itami might be able to reject the marriage without too many repercussions to the SDF's reputation, but it'd be a gamble.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Sadly, this or equally contemptible things were quite common in medieval times. Women really didn't have much rights when it came to marriage.

It seems you have no idea how medieval marriages go. It doesn't work like that AT ALL. You can't just steal a woman as your wife, her father would go after you with lethal force. Women might have few rights, but that doesn't give you the ability to take women at will. Women of ancient times are the responsibility of their fathers, and if you think you can trick a woman into being your wife against the will of her minders you will get stabbed.

No, the Empire does not think it makes any sense for someone to trick someone else into marrying him or her without telling them. Your idea of ancient society is nonsensical.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It seems you have no idea how medieval marriages go. It doesn't work like that AT ALL. You can't just steal a woman as your wife, her father would go after you with lethal force. Women might have few rights, but that doesn't give you the ability to take women at will. Women of ancient times are the responsibility of their fathers, and if you think you can trick a woman into being your wife against the will of her minders you will get stabbed.

No, the Empire does not think it makes any sense for someone to trick someone else into marrying him or her without telling them. Your idea of ancient society is nonsensical.

I never said anything about "taking" women. What I meant was that from what I know the head of the household has more say than anything, meaning that if a man could convince her father, her personal feelings wouldn't mean much. At least from a personal perspective I don't find it any less contemptible for a girl to have to marry whoever her father says, regardless of her own feelings. That said, religion and law were important to many people in those days, and if some rule either said that a girl was married to a man or that a girl's honor depended on her marrying him, things could actually go either way. Some at least would find it shameful to slay a man who, by their own standards, was now her wife, and if they felt the girl had to marry the man to maintain her honor, things could get quite complicated. That said, yes, if a father or brother realized a man they didn't approve of was trying to force or trick the girl into marriage or any manner of inappropriate relation, that man would be extremely lucky if he was challenged to a duel and not simply run through.

[Elandrial]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It seems you have no idea how medieval marriages go. It doesn't work like that AT ALL. You can't just steal a woman as your wife, her father would go after you with lethal force. Women might have few rights, but that doesn't give you the ability to take women at will. Women of ancient times are the responsibility of their fathers, and if you think you can trick a woman into being your wife against the will of her minders you will get stabbed.

No, the Empire does not think it makes any sense for someone to trick someone else into marrying him or her without telling them. Your idea of ancient society is nonsensical.

That also depended on your status. If it was a noble he could take a girl and force her to have sex with him (in england). However commoners did not have that right and there you are right the father would probably kill the guy.

[aohige]

Eh, BWT it's a spoiler material but VCV is correct.

Spoiler:

The rule does imply sex, but Lelei is not aware of the fact.
This causes many hilarious misunderstandings, and one of the major plot points in Lelei's own arc (gaiden 4, reopening of Gate) when one boy who has feelings for Lelei hears about it.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by aohige

Eh, BWT it's a spoiler material but VCV is correct.

Spoiler:

The rule does imply sex, but Lelei is not aware of the fact.
This causes many hilarious misunderstandings, and one of the major plot points in Lelei's own arc (gaiden 4, reopening of Gate) when one boy who has feelings for Lelei hears about it.

OK. My point was only that the information that was given was insufficient. The people saying it was about sex were giving no references to the book, they just said "sleeping with someone means sex so the rule has to mean sex", which is faulty; that's why the first thing I asked was whether it said so in the books. I just didn't want to take an assertion based only on someone's mistaken opinion that a term had to exclusively imply sexual intercourse as canon.

Too bad though. And unusual: I don't personally know of any culture with such a rule, though I have heard of plenty of ancient cultures where living together was automatically equated to marriage. The closest I've heard to such a rule as this is the general rule held in some cultures that failure to have sex is grounds to annul a marriage. Wonder what effect that has on the prostitutes we know to be around.