2010-08-28, 03:15 | Link #7581 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: UK
Age: 31
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They spent 8 years getting absolutely nowhere, then this guy suddenly gets them into a fairly equal battle for the country in less than a year (and lost, but that's still pretty impressive). They don't have to be completely happy with it, but it's a proven fact that whenever Zero's not around, they always lose. I'm not saying the relationship was perfect, but when their alternate choice is trying and getting fuck all again, they should have held on to him a bit more instead of just throwing him out at the first opportunity. It's just common sense.
Again, it's the execution of the betrayal. I find it difficult to believe they didn't try harder to keep him around. Yeah, the second one's what I meant. They were pretty crappy terrorists. |
2010-08-28, 03:18 | Link #7582 | ||||
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: United States--- California
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Besides, how would Lelouch suppose to know that Suzaku is going to take him down then and there. I bet if he would have gotten his sister he will go back to the battle front again and save the Black Knights butts. Quote:
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2010-08-28, 03:51 | Link #7583 | |
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Let me put it to you this way, they can either continue to get fucked by Britannia or they can come crawling back to their "messiah" who fucked them over and would most likely fuck them over again. It's pretty much a no-win situation, but if I was in their shoes I'd probably just go down fighting and forget about Zero. I think it would be pretty disgraceful to seek the help of the man who humiliated me and my comrades by abandoning us. |
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2010-08-28, 03:58 | Link #7584 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Except then they were presented with the option to get Japan back by screwing over Zero. Thus they'd get what they wanted and not have to worry about relying on their unreliable Messiah for it. Sure it would involve screwing him over but as I mentioned he didn't particularly endear himself to them to the point where they'd go out of their way for him.
Thus it is somewhat easier to understand why they took that deal. |
2010-08-28, 04:53 | Link #7585 | |
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2010-08-28, 05:02 | Link #7586 | |
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Oh, and of course he wasn't trying to stop a diabolical plan. You really think they're gonna buy the "I needed to save my sister" story? "Aww, let me play you a song on the world's smallest violin before we crucify you AND your sister!" |
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2010-08-28, 05:05 | Link #7587 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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He basically was. He blew the entire mission when he failed to capture Cornelia like he planned on (because Jeremiah showed up and when he was dealt with, he opted to leave and go find Nunnally rather than go back for her) and without that it was only a matter of time before the stronger Britannian forces beat back the BK without Cornelia as a hostage.
Now Lelouch might have been able to keep morale up had he spun a story and tried to keep on their good side. But instead he basically says "I had something more important to take care of, I'm not going to tell you what it was, deal with it" which only killed his support in the BK. |
2010-08-28, 05:21 | Link #7588 | |
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Location: U.S.A.
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2010-08-28, 05:25 | Link #7589 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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It isn't entirely clear what Lelouch's original plan was, but it involved escaping from the palace and not having to engage any enemy forces beyond the initial pursuit (as implied by Zero's disbelief at their being attacked so soon by the Shen-Hu) and meeting up with a contingent from India. Ending up in the Tomb was a desperation tactic. As for blowback, Xing-ke also killed several BK, forced them to forgo meeting up with their Indian allies, indirectly allowed Britannia to intervene, thus getting more BK killed. |
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2010-08-28, 05:42 | Link #7591 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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You'd be wrong. He'd leave the BK to die if he had to choose them over Nunnally in a heart beat. So they should be satisfied that he'd help them only if it's convienient for him?
As it was he essentially doomed them by opting to go to Nunnally instead of capturing Cornelia, which in the long run cost them the battle. And you can't work for someone who while a good leader, will without hesitation throw you to the wolves in order to persue a higher goal. You just can't trust someone like that. |
2010-08-28, 06:06 | Link #7592 | |
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2010-08-28, 06:18 | Link #7593 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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the moment they find out who he really is, and what he's been responsible for, they turn against him in a second.
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2010-08-28, 06:29 | Link #7594 | |
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Todoh out of the group seems like he had good reasons to turn against Lelouch.
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2010-08-28, 14:07 | Link #7595 |
The black angel
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In Dalaran making laps around the city.
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The BKs had reasons to not trust Zero, that's for sure. That doesn't make the betrayal anymore believable. Trusting Schneizel to give them back Japan is just ridiculous. And I don't understand why they freaked out when they learned the truth about Zero anyway. Didn't they listen to a word he said in R2? How many times in R2 did Zero tell the BKs that he comits evil to destroy the greater evil? He always preached results, which is what they had. They were in a far better position than they ever were to defeat Britannia and get Japan back for real. Did they think he was joking when he said he comits evil, well what the hell did they expect lol? Knowing Schneizel's history they should have known not to trust him at all no matter what he says, even if it's true. It's like trusting the devil when he whispers sweet honey in your ears, it's just not a good idea.
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2010-08-28, 14:20 | Link #7596 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: UK
Age: 31
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They weren't just trusting the devil, they were trusting the guy who just nuked Tokyo.
I just lost all willing suspension of disbelief at the betrayal. Normally this isn't an issue for me, since nothing else in the series bothered me like that, so that's saying a lot. |
2010-08-28, 14:46 | Link #7597 | |||||
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Not to mention that Jeremiah appeared out of nowhere before he had a chance to take in Cornelia to begin with. And again, he was all but done with abandoning everything for Nunnally from the earlier part of R2. All that was left was the shell shock of her apparent demise. Last edited by azul120; 2010-08-28 at 15:03. |
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2010-08-28, 17:04 | Link #7598 | |
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2010-08-28, 21:15 | Link #7599 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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That still isn't acceptable. You can't leave people counting on you for a selfish personal reason even you might get around to getting back to them. If the star of a football team leaves in the middle of a game because his sister wants him for something his team will be pissed and he'd probably lose his position.
Especially in the battle field. Even in real life, if you are police or military you can't just go awol without explaination from an important job, even if a relative is in grave danger. You've got to clear it. If a military general abandoned his men to go mount a one man rescue for his daughter who's trapped in a well or something, he'd still be in serious trouble and get court martialed when he returned. Fact is Nunnally meant nothing to the Black Knights. They would not be happy their leader proritized her live over their own. Unfortunately Lelouch's will was weak when Nunnally was concerned until R2 ep 23. |
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