AnimeSuki Forums

**Solace** · 2007-10-24, 04:07

So after a few days of missing a site I regularly frequent, I discovered it had been taken down by authorities and the owner arrested.

TV Links shut down

I was going to discuss this in the General Anime thread about the Japanese letter sent out earlier, but since this is a broader topic I figured I would post this here.

What I really enjoyed about this site was being able to find old anime and tv shows that were almost impossible to find elsewhere. I find it sad that it is now criminal to create a website that merely links to where these videos are, but apparently not criminal enough to prosecute the people actually hosting the files - YouTube, Google, Veoh, Stage 6, and other such sites.

Anyways, while I'm venting my frustrations at industries that are headhunting for the next scapegoat for their failures (see the blaming of Halo 3 for horrid October movie ticket sales), I'm curious what others think about this recent crop of lawsuits and cease/desist letters that have come about. Perhaps a bit biased to ask this on a fansub site but I know many here also buy legally too.

Is anyone else wondering if "illegal" downloading/streaming is really as devastating to these industries as they claim? Or do you think it's just a case of companies wanting to clamp down on control to extract as much revenue as possible?

ChibiMenos · 2007-10-24, 05:17

Personally I think the industry is a little nuts.

When it comes to fansubs and that, there's always the old argument that many people won't buy something they haven't seen first--I know this is true for me; I'll always borrow DVDs from friends before I buy for myself, if at all possible.

And the other thing is, watching a movie in a theater is a completely different experience from watching it on DVD or video, or online--seeing it on a really huge screen is the best part. So I doubt downloading is cutting into the ticket sales nearly as much as they tend to claim...it's more of a threat for DVD sales. And really, if they lowered DVD prices I doubt the movie industry would hav nearly as much trouble. I have no problem shelling out $10 or so for something that might be good (*has been guilty of ordering random Japanese candy online because the packages were pretty*) but any more than that and I tend to stay away...

deathreape98 · 2007-10-24, 05:30

itd suck if the hosting sites were shut down....then id have to start downloading them.

Quote:

Is anyone else wondering if "illegal" downloading/streaming is really as devastating to these industries as they claim? Or do you think it's just a case of companies wanting to clamp down on control to extract as much revenue as possible?

yeah, its probably just them wanting to extract every last cent possible.

after reading the article, i noticed this

Quote:

The group's director general Kieron Sharp said TV Links was the first major target in a campaign to crackdown on web piracy.

that means they may start cracking down on youtube, stage6, and veoh.

damn bastards! does 10$/1,000 yen really matter that much?

ooh lets sign a petition :P

2H-Dragon · 2007-10-24, 05:35

I don't know honestly. I think most people like myself watch movies in the cinema halls. It ain't that expensive.

With the newer tv series. We get them on TV so what's the point in streaming? Personally the only thing I have is the whole Friends box set <3.

With the older series I think the same applies with fansubs. People won't buy what they haven't seen.

xris · 2007-10-24, 05:40

Before people start whinging and whining about death of fansubs I would like to point out that the site in question was aimed primarilly at mainstream TV and movies, not anime.

deathreape98 · 2007-10-24, 05:42

While for now its aimed at movies and tv shows, one thing can lead to another. lets just hope that it doesnt lead to the death of fansubs *crosses fingers*

**Solace** · 2007-10-24, 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by xris

Before people start whinging and whining about death of fansubs I would like to point out that the site in question was aimed primarilly at mainstream TV and movies, not anime.

I agree with your statement about not over reacting, my post was not to meant to create that atmosphere but I wanted to foster a discussion about how people feel about these recent crackdowns on sites that stream and those that link to them. Streaming has become the new thing although many do still download, and it seems many of these new arrests/shutdowns are aimed at trying to stop such sites from gaining traction.

As for TV links, it was pretty popular so I used that as an example. There have been other sites recently as well but lower profile. It actually had a rather extensive anime section but the article I linked did not mention it. The site in question was also guilty of posting links to sites that streamed movies (usually crappy quality with asian subtitles) that were recently in theaters. So it was by no means an "innocent" site. Had the admin not posted such links the site might have escaped notice for a bit longer but who really knows?

I think what worries me the most is that this sets a precedent for all linking sites and programs. By using the law to label them as accomplices instead of just mediums it makes it much easier to enforce shut downs and arrests, because you can skip the lawyer with the letters and threats and get right to the removal without being "nice". It's already bad enough with ISP's like Comcast monitoring your connection for suspicious activity.

Ichihara Asako · 2007-10-24, 07:37

All-round, I don't see a problem with this because I think companies have the right to protect their investments. However, it will never be stopped. Piracy has always existed... it's just 'easier' now with high speed connections and simple streamed stuff. But attacking streaming sites, or P2P clients (Napster etc) or tracker sites (suprnova) just... doesn't work. Because there will always be more to take their place as long as the demand is there.

The demand exists because the industry tends to be stupid, and greedy. Particularly when it comes to international releases. People in other countries want to keep up with shows/movies, not wait months or even years for them. Also prices tend to be too high for people to bother with DVDs, but for stuff that is aired on TV to begin with... I don't see the harm done, really. Of course, commercials are supposed to cover TV costs, and website ad revenue is far smaller than TV so it's not terribly feasible to run streaming sites and still try to make money. However it is a mostly untapped market that could become very profitable.

Just look at iTunes, it's done wonders for music. I believe there are also some TV shows and movies available on it (Never used it myself, as I don't follow any of the kind of music they feature...) at quite cheap rates compared to buying the discs off the shelf. That's because digital delivery does away with the physical manufacturing, distribution etc which adds a lot to the cost. Far, far cheaper and easier. Though prices still tend to be too high, which is why a lot of people hit up BT and streaming sites, instead.

Personally, I don't watch much TV at all. I only download a couple foreign shows, and if they weren't available online I simply wouldn't watch them at all, no skin off my nose. I wouldn't buy them either way, so it's not like the industry is 'losing' anything. The shows I really do like, though, I'll go out of my way to buy on DVD, because I want high quality versions to watch on demand, with no commercials and preferably with special features. Plus I'm happy to pass my bit of money along to the creators (though publishers tend to get most of it, unfortunately.)

I think I may have ranted a bit too much, so I'll stop now.

dahl_moon · 2007-10-24, 07:44

Yeah, I heard about TV Links and to me the most absurd part was that they guy was actually raided. What, is he a *terrorist* to the entertainment industry because he's a "threat to the business"? Believe me, there are a lot more scary criminals than a server admin. And he's not some big shot Pirate-Bay "associate." A nice and civil letter would have solved this. And estimated losses of £459m? Yeah... I wonder how you came up with that number?

I really would like to see the day when the entertainment industry sees fans as fans, not brain-dead consumers. That's why I've refused to watch anything other than news and stuff on the Big Screen now.

Ending · 2007-10-24, 12:07

It's about the rule of the strong again. Unfortunate for this guy, perhaps, but has no real effect on the whole. Torrents are the most popular way to share files with a reason.

Takeru · 2007-10-24, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahl_moon

I really would like to see the day when the entertainment industry sees fans as fans, not brain-dead consumers. That's why I've refused to watch anything other than news and stuff on the Big Screen now.

I agree, I actually removed the cable from the back of my TV for my modem because I refuse to watch the idiocy that flows through it. I still support Hollywood movies (and other things like independent film) but I refuse to support the majority of western television. That's why my main channels are always Discovery, History, and Fox News.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wordplay

It's about the rule of the strong again. Unfortunate for this guy, perhaps, but has no real effect on the whole. Torrents are the most popular way to share files with a reason.

Exactly, if you just take down one person with a torrent, there are plenty others (sometimes thousands) that come to take his place. That's why torrents are so successful.
And for this guy, he's merely a victim of money-grubbing lawyers who are out to make a quick cent and have the big names of the TV industry to back them.

Dkong1026 · 2007-10-24, 20:28

If it was just anime, I would have called this way over the top; but since TV Links was home to tons and tons of pirated movies, american tv, anime, music, videos, and old cartoons, I think it was legit to crack down on the site.....though putting him in jail might have been a bit rough, a heavy fine would've been more appropriate, IMO.

Inu_Sess__ · 2007-10-25, 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wordplay

It's about the rule of the strong again. Unfortunate for this guy, perhaps, but has no real effect on the whole. Torrents are the most popular way to share files with a reason.

Well torrents sites of all kinds are getting raided too, we lost one of the best music sharing sites, OiNK, this week too. I see the UK is finally starting to crack down on this sort of thing.

KholdStare · 2007-10-25, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dkong1026

If it was just anime, I would have called this way over the top; but since TV Links was home to tons and tons of pirated movies, american tv, anime, music, videos, and old cartoons, I think it was legit to crack down on the site.....though putting him in jail might have been a bit rough, a heavy fine would've been more appropriate, IMO.

That's probably it. They're not targeting anime, but tv episodes and movies as a whole. In the end though, they're just links to what's already there. However, we cannot make the argument that shutting down tv-links instead of youtube/veoh affected our anime, because shutting the the main source would've created the same result to us.

TinyRedLeaf · 2007-10-25, 04:41

I'm still waiting for the revolutionary business model that would make it commercially feasible for content creators to sell their intellectual property directly to their end-customers.

Slice of Life · 2007-10-25, 06:46

TV? I'm still waiting, and probably in vain, for the "intellectual" in intellectual property here.

TinyRedLeaf · 2007-10-25, 07:02

I can't claim to speak for all TV-media industries around the world, but speaking from the experience of my local industry alone, it's almost impossible for a content producer to sell directly to a TV broadcaster.

There is at least one important economic reason why they sell to media distributors instead -- because these distributors are capable of offering a "package" of products to prospective TV broadcasters, something which a content producer is usually not capable of doing. The distributors procure the content from various production companies to build a portfolio which they then pitch to TV broadcasters.

By the way, most content producers will tell you that they don't make much money from selling the licenses. Usually, they make enough to cover costs of production, with a little bit of profit left over, but it's far from lucrative. The real money is in merchandising apparently.

Back to the main point -- sure, we can jeer content distributors as dinosaurs on the way to extinction, but unless the economic balance-of-power changes drastically, I don't expect them to disappear all that soon. They still retain considerable clout, and they still do provide a valuable service to broadcasters and content producers alike -- they open doors, to put it simply.

That being the case, it's hardly surprising that distributors would do everything in their power to protect their revenue. TV broadcasters would do likewise -- if everyone mooches "free" content off the Internet, they'd eventually lose advertising revenue as well.

Let's not be shy to admit a huge reality -- Internet content, whether downloaded or streamed online -- is wildly popular because viewers get to watch for free. That amounts to IP theft, really. I know not everyone subscribes to such ethics. I, for one, will try to buy the DVDs of the shows I enjoyed. But, not to kid myself, I have friends who would look at me funny for thinking like that.

Slice of Life · 2007-10-25, 08:56

My "TV?" referred to the thread title. But anyway.

The talk about intellectual 'property' and IP 'theft' is a strawman. The whole idea is quite new and certainly didn't cross Moses' mind when he was given the 7th (or 8th according to others) commandment. I refuse to accept it as a human right of some sort (not the least because the human creators of IP often hardly benefit from it) that stands above discussion.

IP should be protected when it's for the benefit of all. The best example is probably that we all benefit from patents in the medical sector because there were less research if the results weren't protected. But even here there are a lot of ifs and buts: a lot of (most?) valuable scientific research happens in universities and similar institutions for example, i.e. it is state funded anyway. Nor does it help if patents prevent giving medicine to the poor.

And what about art? Art is as old as humanity and thrived before the invention of IP. Art sometimes makes you rich, more often not, and has always been produced anyway. The existence of piracy thus doesn't endanger the production of art. (Nor does the existence of Universal or Warner helps it in any way.) There always has been and will be more valuable cultural goods than we could appreciate. Because we as individuals or as society are able to recognize them and support them. So as a cultural species we're not doomed just yet, IP rights or not.

But what about the rights of a TV soap opera? All in all, they're probably not as lucrative as they were in a world without privacy. Big deal. Repairing shoes is not lucrative anymore since shoe factories can produce new ones at a lower price. The society has no obligation to create an environment where the particular trade you decided to choose pays out. That's the same for shoemakers as for "content creators".

Markets have been blamed again and again to destroy cultural traditions so wouldn't it be ironic if market forces (and they are at work even in the piracy sector, even if the price the downloader pays is not so easily visible) would cut away some trash to make the culturally valuable products a bit more visible?

And as a final remark: there will always be piracy as long as there is privacy. While I agree that the 'dinosaurs' will continue to be around for quite some time, maybe forever (good for them!), they can't win this game except if they are able to create a society where the state controls all our communication. And if push comes to shove and the anime industry is doomed (which I'm not willing to believe[*]) then I'd rather have my privacy than my anime, thank you very much.

[*] EDIT: And it seems are a good reasons not to believe it.

~~User65554~~ · 2007-10-25, 16:36

Fact (Federation Against Copyright Theft) were investigating this, who also (for those who haven't seen it) made this ridiculas advert .

Ledgem · 2007-10-25, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChibiMenos

And the other thing is, watching a movie in a theater is a completely different experience from watching it on DVD or video, or online--seeing it on a really huge screen is the best part. So I doubt downloading is cutting into the ticket sales nearly as much as they tend to claim...it's more of a threat for DVD sales. And really, if they lowered DVD prices I doubt the movie industry would hav nearly as much trouble. I have no problem shelling out $10 or so for something that might be good (*has been guilty of ordering random Japanese candy online because the packages were pretty*) but any more than that and I tend to stay away...

The argument that theaters offer a completely different experience from your own home viewing was the old argument about why piracy would not hurt movie sales. Let's be honest: movie theaters themselves are a dying business model. Home theater systems are becoming so elaborate and inexpensive that you can get an even better viewing experience from the comfort of your own home. Sure, going out to the movies will always be its own experience - something that can't be replicated in your own home. But then, you don't see many people lamenting over the near complete lack of drive-in movie theaters, do you?

It's entertainment. Many of the same theories hold true on the music industry side. The industry mandates the prices, and we have all more or less been brought up to accept it as fact: CDs cost $19 (now they're more like $10 I believe), DVDs cost $20-30. Now that we can obtain the footage for free (at the expense of quality and extras - sometimes), the consumers are realizing that maybe the pricing is a little bizarre. Maybe the price really doesn't match the service. Sites and services that make access freer are being targeted because they make consumers more aware, and they make them reconsider what's in stores. There is no competition between movies the way that there are between similar competing products - you can't buy one DVD from one person for cheaper than you could a DVD that would do (play) the same thing, unless you start dipping into the illegal markets. Of course it's easy to accept the company's pricing without an alternative.

And if anyone questions whether the companies want more control, the answer is relatively obvious. Just consider the lunacy of DVD region codes. If I buy a DVD from Japan, unless I have a Japanese DVD player or a region-free DVD player, I can't play it back in my DVD player. Why? I bought the movie, and yet I'm being locked out from it. Even your computer is only allowed to change the region of its DVD drive five or so times. Why is there a limited number? Why are we being locked in? If you spend some time on it, you may actually get quite angry with the way that you as a customer are being treated. I don't believe it's right. As if the companies didn't learn from the DVDs, Blu-ray also has the region codes incorporated, although I don't know whether they're being used in the same fashion or not. (Not sure if HD-DVD has them but I would not be surprised - both formats have other restrictions on what you can do with them, either way.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichihara Asoko

All-round, I don't see a problem with this because I think companies have the right to protect their investments. However, it will never be stopped. Piracy has always existed... it's just 'easier' now with high speed connections and simple streamed stuff. But attacking streaming sites, or P2P clients (Napster etc) or tracker sites (suprnova) just... doesn't work. Because there will always be more to take their place as long as the demand is there.

Unless I'm remembering this incorrectly, TV-Links simply linked to other content. Is the intention of piracy very clear? Yes and no - if the site was purely linking to torrents and such, then you could say that yes, it was. But does that mean that if I link you to an album hosted on some server, I'm guilty of copyright infringement? Is the company justifiably "protecting its investments" by going after me?

A similar analogy would be if someone on the street pointed out to me that the back door to a shop was open ajar. If I go and rob the store based on that information, was that man guilty of it, as well? We can discuss intent all you like, but at the end of the day, whether he had intended for the store to be robbed or not, he did not unlock the door, and he did not goad me into robbing the store. He's innocent.

Similarly, here, the site may have been pointing out torrents, but it did nothing to facilitate the torrent itself. Torrent sites are still arguing with the courts about whether hosting a torrent file itself is the same thing as hosting a file. No matter what your beliefs are on that, even if we suppose that trackers are guilty of hosting those files, simply linking to a torrent - not running a tracker that supports it - should not be considered illegal.

It's worth noting that this is what AnimeSuki does. AS is not a tracker, and you've probably noted that clicking a torrent link will bring you to a fansubber's webpage where the torrent file is actually hosted. Now suppose we say that fansubbers are all big-time criminals and infringing on copyrights. Would AnimeSuki be considered criminal, as well? They take no part in the subbing process, no part in the hosting - nothing of that sort. I think it'd be ridiculous to consider AnimeSuki as guilty in that respect.

And that's what makes the TV-Links issue an issue. This isn't a case of some torrent site run and used by punk pirate kids getting knocked down. This was a site that simply aggregated links.

2007-10-24, 04:07	Link #1
Solace (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006	TV Links Shut Down So after a few days of missing a site I regularly frequent, I discovered it had been taken down by authorities and the owner arrested. TV Links shut down I was going to discuss this in the General Anime thread about the Japanese letter sent out earlier, but since this is a broader topic I figured I would post this here. What I really enjoyed about this site was being able to find old anime and tv shows that were almost impossible to find elsewhere. I find it sad that it is now criminal to create a website that merely links to where these videos are, but apparently not criminal enough to prosecute the people actually hosting the files - YouTube, Google, Veoh, Stage 6, and other such sites. Anyways, while I'm venting my frustrations at industries that are headhunting for the next scapegoat for their failures (see the blaming of Halo 3 for horrid October movie ticket sales), I'm curious what others think about this recent crop of lawsuits and cease/desist letters that have come about. Perhaps a bit biased to ask this on a fansub site but I know many here also buy legally too. Is anyone else wondering if "illegal" downloading/streaming is really as devastating to these industries as they claim? Or do you think it's just a case of companies wanting to clamp down on control to extract as much revenue as possible? __________________

2007-10-24, 05:42	Link #6
deathreape98 Clannad Preacher Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: In my fantasy dreamworld called Clannad Age: 30	While for now its aimed at movies and tv shows, one thing can lead to another. lets just hope that it doesnt lead to the death of fansubs crosses fingers __________________

2007-10-24, 07:44	Link #9
dahl_moon Apathy moe~ Scanlator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Atlanta, USA / Seoul, Korea	Yeah, I heard about TV Links and to me the most absurd part was that they guy was actually raided. What, is he a terrorist to the entertainment industry because he's a "threat to the business"? Believe me, there are a lot more scary criminals than a server admin. And he's not some big shot Pirate-Bay "associate." A nice and civil letter would have solved this. And estimated losses of £459m? Yeah... I wonder how you came up with that number? I really would like to see the day when the entertainment industry sees fans as fans, not brain-dead consumers. That's why I've refused to watch anything other than news and stuff on the Big Screen now. __________________ Currently Watching:Is the Order a Rabbit?, No Game No Life, Precure Series Last edited by dahl_moon; 2007-10-24 at 08:20. Reason: Guy was "raided," silly me.

2007-10-25, 06:46	Link #16
Slice of Life eyewitness Join Date: Jan 2007	TV? I'm still waiting, and probably in vain, for the "intellectual" in intellectual property here. __________________ - Any ideas how to fill this space?

2007-10-25, 08:56	Link #18
Slice of Life eyewitness Join Date: Jan 2007	My "TV?" referred to the thread title. But anyway. The talk about intellectual 'property' and IP 'theft' is a strawman. The whole idea is quite new and certainly didn't cross Moses' mind when he was given the 7th (or 8th according to others) commandment. I refuse to accept it as a human right of some sort (not the least because the human creators of IP often hardly benefit from it) that stands above discussion. IP should be protected when it's for the benefit of all. The best example is probably that we all benefit from patents in the medical sector because there were less research if the results weren't protected. But even here there are a lot of ifs and buts: a lot of (most?) valuable scientific research happens in universities and similar institutions for example, i.e. it is state funded anyway. Nor does it help if patents prevent giving medicine to the poor. And what about art? Art is as old as humanity and thrived before the invention of IP. Art sometimes makes you rich, more often not, and has always been produced anyway. The existence of piracy thus doesn't endanger the production of art. (Nor does the existence of Universal or Warner helps it in any way.) There always has been and will be more valuable cultural goods than we could appreciate. Because we as individuals or as society are able to recognize them and support them. So as a cultural species we're not doomed just yet, IP rights or not. But what about the rights of a TV soap opera? All in all, they're probably not as lucrative as they were in a world without privacy. Big deal. Repairing shoes is not lucrative anymore since shoe factories can produce new ones at a lower price. The society has no obligation to create an environment where the particular trade you decided to choose pays out. That's the same for shoemakers as for "content creators". Markets have been blamed again and again to destroy cultural traditions so wouldn't it be ironic if market forces (and they are at work even in the piracy sector, even if the price the downloader pays is not so easily visible) would cut away some trash to make the culturally valuable products a bit more visible? And as a final remark: there will always be piracy as long as there is privacy. While I agree that the 'dinosaurs' will continue to be around for quite some time, maybe forever (good for them!), they can't win this game except if they are able to create a society where the state controls all our communication. And if push comes to shove and the anime industry is doomed (which I'm not willing to believe[]) then I'd rather have my privacy than my anime, thank you very much. [] EDIT: And it seems are a good reasons not to believe it. __________________ - Any ideas how to fill this space? Last edited by Slice of Life; 2007-10-25 at 09:54.

2007-10-24, 05:17	Link #2
ChibiMenos Gillian-class Chibi Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Utah Age: 35	Personally I think the industry is a little nuts. When it comes to fansubs and that, there's always the old argument that many people won't buy something they haven't seen first--I know this is true for me; I'll always borrow DVDs from friends before I buy for myself, if at all possible. And the other thing is, watching a movie in a theater is a completely different experience from watching it on DVD or video, or online--seeing it on a really huge screen is the best part. So I doubt downloading is cutting into the ticket sales nearly as much as they tend to claim...it's more of a threat for DVD sales. And really, if they lowered DVD prices I doubt the movie industry would hav nearly as much trouble. I have no problem shelling out $10 or so for something that might be good (has been guilty of ordering random Japanese candy online because the packages were pretty) but any more than that and I tend to stay away...

2007-10-24, 05:35	Link #4
2H-Dragon Silent Warrior Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Netherlands Age: 38	I don't know honestly. I think most people like myself watch movies in the cinema halls. It ain't that expensive. With the newer tv series. We get them on TV so what's the point in streaming? Personally the only thing I have is the whole Friends box set <3. With the older series I think the same applies with fansubs. People won't buy what they haven't seen.

2007-10-24, 05:40	Link #5
xris Just call me Ojisan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: U.K. Hampshire	Before people start whinging and whining about death of fansubs I would like to point out that the site in question was aimed primarilly at mainstream TV and movies, not anime.

2007-10-24, 07:37	Link #8
Ichihara Asako Horoist Join Date: Oct 2007	All-round, I don't see a problem with this because I think companies have the right to protect their investments. However, it will never be stopped. Piracy has always existed... it's just 'easier' now with high speed connections and simple streamed stuff. But attacking streaming sites, or P2P clients (Napster etc) or tracker sites (suprnova) just... doesn't work. Because there will always be more to take their place as long as the demand is there. The demand exists because the industry tends to be stupid, and greedy. Particularly when it comes to international releases. People in other countries want to keep up with shows/movies, not wait months or even years for them. Also prices tend to be too high for people to bother with DVDs, but for stuff that is aired on TV to begin with... I don't see the harm done, really. Of course, commercials are supposed to cover TV costs, and website ad revenue is far smaller than TV so it's not terribly feasible to run streaming sites and still try to make money. However it is a mostly untapped market that could become very profitable. Just look at iTunes, it's done wonders for music. I believe there are also some TV shows and movies available on it (Never used it myself, as I don't follow any of the kind of music they feature...) at quite cheap rates compared to buying the discs off the shelf. That's because digital delivery does away with the physical manufacturing, distribution etc which adds a lot to the cost. Far, far cheaper and easier. Though prices still tend to be too high, which is why a lot of people hit up BT and streaming sites, instead. Personally, I don't watch much TV at all. I only download a couple foreign shows, and if they weren't available online I simply wouldn't watch them at all, no skin off my nose. I wouldn't buy them either way, so it's not like the industry is 'losing' anything. The shows I really do like, though, I'll go out of my way to buy on DVD, because I want high quality versions to watch on demand, with no commercials and preferably with special features. Plus I'm happy to pass my bit of money along to the creators (though publishers tend to get most of it, unfortunately.) I think I may have ranted a bit too much, so I'll stop now.

2007-10-24, 12:07	Link #10
Ending Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	It's about the rule of the strong again. Unfortunate for this guy, perhaps, but has no real effect on the whole. Torrents are the most popular way to share files with a reason.

2007-10-24, 20:28	Link #12
Dkong1026 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Age: 33	If it was just anime, I would have called this way over the top; but since TV Links was home to tons and tons of pirated movies, american tv, anime, music, videos, and old cartoons, I think it was legit to crack down on the site.....though putting him in jail might have been a bit rough, a heavy fine would've been more appropriate, IMO.

2007-10-25, 04:41	Link #15
TinyRedLeaf Moving in circles Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 49	I'm still waiting for the revolutionary business model that would make it commercially feasible for content creators to sell their intellectual property directly to their end-customers.

2007-10-25, 07:02	Link #17
TinyRedLeaf Moving in circles Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 49	I can't claim to speak for all TV-media industries around the world, but speaking from the experience of my local industry alone, it's almost impossible for a content producer to sell directly to a TV broadcaster. There is at least one important economic reason why they sell to media distributors instead -- because these distributors are capable of offering a "package" of products to prospective TV broadcasters, something which a content producer is usually not capable of doing. The distributors procure the content from various production companies to build a portfolio which they then pitch to TV broadcasters. By the way, most content producers will tell you that they don't make much money from selling the licenses. Usually, they make enough to cover costs of production, with a little bit of profit left over, but it's far from lucrative. The real money is in merchandising apparently. Back to the main point -- sure, we can jeer content distributors as dinosaurs on the way to extinction, but unless the economic balance-of-power changes drastically, I don't expect them to disappear all that soon. They still retain considerable clout, and they still do provide a valuable service to broadcasters and content producers alike -- they open doors, to put it simply. That being the case, it's hardly surprising that distributors would do everything in their power to protect their revenue. TV broadcasters would do likewise -- if everyone mooches "free" content off the Internet, they'd eventually lose advertising revenue as well. Let's not be shy to admit a huge reality -- Internet content, whether downloaded or streamed online -- is wildly popular because viewers get to watch for free. That amounts to IP theft, really. I know not everyone subscribes to such ethics. I, for one, will try to buy the DVDs of the shows I enjoyed. But, not to kid myself, I have friends who would look at me funny for thinking like that.

2007-10-25, 16:36	Link #19
~~User65554~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Aug 2007	Fact (Federation Against Copyright Theft) were investigating this, who also (for those who haven't seen it) made this ridiculas advert .