2010-03-30, 12:06 | Link #6721 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Yesterday, I saw the headline "Women blamed for Moscow bombing." WTF? |
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2010-03-30, 12:17 | Link #6722 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2010-03-30, 16:34 | Link #6724 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Well of course, "the only religious radicals are Muslims" are wrong. However, given the sole fact that a number of one particular population celebrated 9/11 publicly, the bias against Muslim is well-founded. And if given limited resources to counter terrorism, our priority should be put where it is most productive.
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2010-03-30, 16:53 | Link #6725 |
Director
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Radicalism and extremism has been present in every type of person, regardless of their religious beliefs, their political affiliations, or their race.
A list of the 10 bloodiest events of human history: 1. World War II (55M), includes Holocaust and Sino-Japanese War, some overlap with Stalin 2. Mao Zedong's Regime (40M), includes famines 3. Stalin's Regime (20M), some overlap with WWII 4. World War I (15M), includes Armenians 5. Russian Civil War (8.8M) 6. Warlord and Nationalist China Eras (4M) 7. Congo Free State (~3M), some of this goes a bit before 1900 8. Korean War (2.8M) 8. Second Indochina War (2.8M), commonly known as the Vietnam War, encompasses more than Vietnam 10. Chinese Civil War (2.5M) I don't think any of these actually involve religion, unless you were to consider Nazi Germany to conduct religious war against Jews, in which case I say to you that I think that is technically a racial and nationalistic war, especially considering how to this day Hitler's religious beliefs are under debate. So let's break this down on the types of incidents. 1. Nationalistic, Territorial, Racial 2. Political (Communism) 3. Political (Communism) 4. Nationalistic, Territorial 5. Political (Communism) 6. Nationalistic, Territorial 7. Territorial, Racial 8. Political (Communism) 8. Political (Communism) 10. Political (Communism) If we were to look at the 10 worst events of the 20th century in terms of death count, then we can presume that communism has killed, just from this, about 76.9M, and I'm not accounting any overlap with World War II. 76,900,000 deaths linked to communism. In perspective, that'd be as if 10.5% of modern Europe keeled over, or if 24.9% of the US died (gotta go by census estimate, no modern accurate numbers yet), or if all Canadians died four times over AND THEN SOME. To those who say religion only causes wrong, I ask you to look at this information. |
2010-03-30, 17:23 | Link #6726 | |
SOLDIER 1st class
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Age: 33
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2010-03-30, 18:07 | Link #6727 | |
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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Likewise for the Korean War, the Vietnam War, etc., etc. I'm no friend of totalitarians of any shade, Red or otherwise, but this is a truly ridiculous exercise in bias. Surely all those capitalistic napalms the Americans threw into the jungles of Southeast Asia killed someone. In other news, civilization caused the deaths of approximately XXX billions of people. Oh shit, civilization. Moreover, although I do not agree with the statement "religion only cause wrong" in any case (nor, I have to bring to everyone's attention, did anybody here actually made that statement), it is not logical to say that because political conflicts cause more death and destruction, religion is not wrong. There isn't a causal relationship between the two statements after all. It's not like someone who opposes modern state totalitarianism cannot at the same time oppose religious fundamentalism; bringing the catastrophic conflicts of 20th century human civilization into the fore doesn't do anything much except perhaps as distraction. |
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2010-03-30, 18:25 | Link #6728 | ||
Director
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Yes, those guys we set up killed people. I don't deny that, but they're not ranked in the top 10 worst atrocities of the 20th century. I was solely going off of that list, and on it you see a striking amount of these incidents were communist revolutions, communist wars, and communist regimes. Some of them we weren't involved in setting up a pro-capitalism force (Russia, China), others we were (Korea, Indochina). That's fact. Now if I were to expand to, say, the top 30, you probably wouldn't read as much of a non-existent, anti-communist bias into it. Quote:
I never meant to say "because political conflicts cause more death and destruction, religion is not wrong" and I apologize if you read it that way. In fact I distinctly started with "Radicalism and extremism has been present in every type of person, regardless of their religious beliefs, their political affiliations, or their race." |
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2010-03-30, 19:55 | Link #6729 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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The world is no safer since the "war on terror" than we were before. Those limited resources, those lives, cannot be recovered. It's an empty war, just like the war on drugs. We don't attempt to treat the causes of destructive choices, just the symptoms. Go ahead and dismantle Al Quida. There will just be another group taking up the mantle. Take out those drug lords. It won't matter. The drugs will still find their way to the streets. It might make for good PR, politics, and public assurance, but these "wars" are tremendous wastes of time, money, and lives that could have been better assisted by addressing the problems that caused them to begin with. That won't happen though, there's more to gain from war than peace, at least in the minds of those seeking power and wealth. It's just another case where treating the symptoms is better in some views than curing the disease.
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2010-03-30, 23:03 | Link #6731 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
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Christian Nut job example #1 Quote:
Christian nut jobs example #2 Quote:
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2010-03-31, 00:47 | Link #6732 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Hmm, I don't see "celebrate" anywhere in your quotes. But what is the point exactly? You want to prove that there are Christian extremists? Well, of course, so?
@Solace: I never contest that religious radicalism exists in all religions. However, if one particular religion constantly has their devotees committed wanton acts against us, we should raise a red flag toward that religion. Furthermore, I refuse to believe that those radicals can sustain themselves without constantly and quite easily being able to recruit the more moderate ones who exist in much much larger numbers. This is the main problem, imo. Keeping that in mind, this war on terror is going nowhere with the way we fought it now. Like you've said, there are basically 2 ways to fight this: eliminating the cause by getting the heck out of the Middle East and scaling down our empire, which is unacceptable, and trying to suppress the symptoms by, uhm... dealing with the imminent causes. |
2010-03-31, 01:53 | Link #6733 | ||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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Rio Tinto trial highlights risks of China business Quote:
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2010-03-31, 02:39 | Link #6734 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
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The point was that I disagree with this comment of yours:
The reason I disagree with your comment is that it makes no sense to assume the ill will of some Muslims means that we should focus our anti-terrorism activities on the Muslim community, most of whom are completely innocent. In just the same way, the fact that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson chortled gleefully at 9/11, or that a group of "Christian militia" tried to trigger the apocalypse in a bloody confrontation with the police forces, does not mean that anti-terrorism activities should focus exclusively on the surveillance of Christians, or justifies a "bias" against Christianity. Last edited by Joojoobees; 2010-03-31 at 02:59. Reason: streamlining response |
2010-03-31, 04:33 | Link #6735 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Cold War 2 anyone?
Google: Critics of Vietnam mine face online attack Quote:
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2010-03-31, 09:00 | Link #6736 | |
Rawrrr!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CH aka Chocaholic Heaven
Age: 40
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It doesn't take much epistemology to realize that both originate from our need to get an understanding of the unknown, and our hopes to affect phenomena to which we are powerless. What is as old if not older than civilization, is the way we behave in packs or mobs, and react to the fear instilled by things we don't understand.
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2010-03-31, 16:55 | Link #6738 |
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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*Facepalm*
If it was an interactive porno game made in the USA, I bet it wouldn't be so demonized. It is not like they are going to sell this to kids (like the moderator wants to make us believe). Now a "game" about rape is certainly not exactly politically correct, but since video game characters can be assumed to be fictional SM or those staged gangbang/rape porn videos would equally qualify. Its just that hypocrisy that tastes so bitter.
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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