General Eroge Impressions & Discussion

[Mahou]

I finished Natsumi's route of Shunki Gentei Poko a Poko and I shed manly tears during the epilogue after the credits rolled. Well to be precise, it was the only route I played (with a savegame of course), but nontheless it was impressive for me. I had my fair share of "cold shivers", the positive ones, during the course Seems I have become easily affected by that kind of stuff.
Next on Mahou's list: Nanatsu no Fushigi no owaru toki after johnishida talked so positively about it . And Hanako's route in Katawa Shoujo.

[johnishida]

Originally Posted by Mahou

I finished Natsumi's route of Shunki Gentei Poko a Poko and I shed manly tears during the epilogue after the credits rolled. Well to be precise, it was the only route I played (with a savegame of course), but nontheless it was impressive for me. I had my fair share of "cold shivers", the positive ones, during the course Seems I have become easily affected by that kind of stuff.
Next on Mahou's list: Nanatsu no Fushigi no owaru toki after johnishida talked so positively about it . And Hanako's route in Katawa Shoujo.

You should play Ai's route as well! Sakura's is not really that good so you can skip it if you want but, definitely play Ai's!
Playing Nanatoki based on my impression, huh? That's some pressure but, Hope you like it!

Done with the third ending / route in Eustia which was Irene's. Liked her story more than Fione's and Eris'.

So far into the game (mid-way through) Eustia has been interesting and intriguing but, I believe the eroge presentation limits it's true potential so it strikes me as lacking in many aspects. Only two more ending / routes to go until my final judgment but, as a preliminary impression: it's good but, it could have been better if presented in a different way.

[relentlessflame]

I also finished Shunki Gentei Poko a Poko recently (all three routes), and really quite liked it. I think it's valuable to play all three routes to get a full understanding of all the characters and issues (particularly things that happened in the past and how that impacted all the characters in the present). The main strength of this game's story is the way that it's tightly-wound around a small group of characters (and a common tragedy), and they picked the right length to tell the story they needed to tell without adding too much extra fluff. The comedy is a huge aspect of the writing, and probably an acquired taste, but I found it really hilarious -- particularly the small moments of breaking the fourth wall. But again, a key is that it was just the right duration and didn't outstay its welcome (though now, perhaps ironically, I'd be all for a fandisk, even though it really isn't necessary).

In terms of the routes, Sakura's route indeed seems the weaker on its own, but I think there are some important things going on beneath the surface that are worth exploring, and things that seem odd at first come to make more sense in the end. The main theme of this route is friendship. Ai's route is defined mostly by the crazy over-the-top (to me hilarious) dialog (carried perfectly by the voice actor), but still manages to pull on the heartstrings when it needs to, and actually resolves one of Kanata's big outstanding issues as well. The main theme of this route is family. And Natsumi's route, which is arguably the true ending, brings everything together and provides the anchor to the story, dealing with the themes of love, identity, and "saying goodbye". There were a lot of really nice touches in this route, and the epilogue was really well done.

Other than that, in terms of the content, there was a bit of drama in each route, and some of it was a bit over-played, but again the main benefit is that the overall story isn't too long so none of the elements drag on for too long. The character designs are simple, but pleasant, and there's a decent amount of CGs considering the overall length of the game. There are ten ero-scenes in total spread over the three routes, and for those opposed to such things they could probably be skipped (though sometimes the context of the scenes is related to the character development, and on occasion there's a bit of story-connected dialogue, but not too much).

If there was any one thing that disappointed me a tiny bit, it was the soundtrack. Don't get me wrong; the music in the game is pretty good, and some of the songs in particular were quite poignant and well-used (a few were a bit over-used, IMO), but for a story that revolves around a piano and strings quartet, it might have been nice for the soundtrack to reflect that theme. I guess I'm a bit spoiled by phi-âge's Owarinaki Natsu, Towanaru Shirabe (which also featured a string quartet, and employed an actual quartet to perform a lot of the soundtrack). In the end, the soundtrack here was good, but I'd like to see the bar raised even higher when music is a main theme of the work.

So anyway, recommended to anyone who likes the medium, but play the trial first to see if you can appreciate the "manzai" sense of humour -- I suppose that could make or break it for some.

[Soviet]

Finished HOTEL recently. What an incredibly boring VN that was, it's basically 99% irrelevant and not very entertaining smalltalk. The plot itself could have gone in really interesting directions (the setting and theme of the story are fantastic and a protagonist suffering from severe Alexithymia makes for hilarious / sad character interaction) but it just never stops being a VN about...nothing really. Too bad, could have been something special.

Also started with SubaHibi today, I've got to do something about my backlog and this is long overdue.

[johnishida]

Finished Aiyoku no Eustia. Overall the game was good but like I said before the plot is lacking. Character wise, they all play their role quite nicely though, Caim's attitude during Tia's chapter almost had me punching my laptop screen. Collett is my favorite heroine, she's way too awesome though, Licia was also pretty impressive.

So, in the end the Aiyoku no Eustia turned out to be somewhat disappointing but, I guess my expectations were too high from the beginning.

[NeoChan]

Originally Posted by Hooves

Eroges must have their ero scenes~ If there wasn't any, then it would just be a visual novel... Wait... That doesn't sound right.

Rephrasing that... EROGE are Visual novels with eroge/sex scenes, and is rated+18

[DingoEnderZOE2]

Originally Posted by NeoChan

Rephrasing that... EROGE are Visual novels with eroge/sex scenes, and is rated+18

That's exactly the proper way to describe them. Granted to me while I have played a few of the type it just doesn't feel right for me to play a romance visual novel without sex scenes(Implied or not) at all. I mean sex inevitably comes naturally with romance right?

Edit: Amazing that this topic that I started waaay back in 2004 when I was a young lass is still this active. God this makes me feel old.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by NeoChan

Rephrasing that... EROGE are Visual novels with eroge/sex scenes, and is rated+18

Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2

That's exactly the proper way to describe them. Granted to me while I have played a few of the type it just doesn't feel right for me to play a romance visual novel without sex scenes(Implied or not) at all. I mean sex inevitably comes naturally with romance right?

Edit: Amazing that this topic that I started waaay back in 2004 when I was a young lass is still this active. God this makes me feel old.

I disagree, not all eroge are visual novels. Like Tears to Tiara or Utawarerumono.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by NeoChan

Rephrasing that... EROGE are Visual novels with eroge/sex scenes, and is rated+18

No, that's really not what it is. While the vast majority of the Eroge are Galge/VN, they aren't solely with this interface.
Eroge are, by essence, "game with erotic content". Which means that a strip poker/mahjong etc -are- eroge, but by no means are visual novels.

As long as it can be considered as a game with adult content, it is an eroge, but the interface doesn't factor in the category. The term is only used as a content label, not as a category of game.

Originally Posted by hyl

I disagree, not all eroge are visual novels. Like Tears to Tiara or Utawarerumono.

Tears to Tiara and Utawarerumono are VN though. They just offer additional content, namely the T RPG gameplay.
As long as you have that narrative structure that defines VN (black ground, text box, doll sheets/characters sprite), well it is one of those, so long this narrative method is the predominant aspect of the said game (Blazblue has such kind of content, but you can't call it a VN for obvious reasons).

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

No, that's really not what it is. While the vast majority of the Eroge are Galge/VN, they aren't solely with this interface.
Eroge are, by essence, "game with erotic content". Which means that a strip poker/mahjong etc -are- eroge, but by no means are visual novels.

As long as it can be considered as a game with adult content, it is an eroge, but the interface doesn't factor in the category. The term is only used as a content label, not as a category of game.


Tears to Tiara and Utawarerumono are VN though. They just offer additional content, namely the T RPG gameplay.

I don't truly consider those games as a VN, because i am playing the tactical rpg elements atleast just as much as reading the story.
In sense you can't actually say that tactics ogre or Namco x capcom are visual novels with tactical rpg elements in it, even if those games had in my opinion better stories than the combat system itself.

[Klashikari]

In such cases, you better check how the company itself brand these games.
As far as it goes, Utawa and Tears to Tiara were branded as ADV games, especially considering how the narrative is played and the galge element to it (as in, chosing a specific girl route).

Tactic ogre etc do not have such focus, even though they do offer a rich storytelling.

[hyl]

the psp and the ps3 ports of tears to tiara are marketed as a S-RPG though

edit: same goes for the Utawarerumono ps2 and psp ports. They are also S-RPG's and not VN according to their website.

Those enhanced ports are an all ages version of their eroge counterpart, but after the removal of the H-scenes they now considered to be tactical RPG's

[Klashikari]

Granted, these ports were also tweeked, correct? Past the whole deal with the suppression of the ero content and the graphic changes, they also modified the gameplay IIRC.

In a way, I really doubt it would have been smart for them to advertize these ports as ADV on consoles (especially for the PS3. The number of pure VN on this is arguably low). Whereas, the original game was quite definitely aimed to usual galge players.

[hyl]

Story and gameplay wise they haven't been tweaked that much. They still remained S-rpg's but the battles feeled a little smoother on those ports but that's it.
In Tears to Tiara's case, they used the anime seiyuu's and the graphics and art were redone but otherwise it's the same game.
I haven't played Utawarerumono on the ps2 though.
If they were more a VN than a S-RPG then i would think marketing them as a VN makes more sense to me, but because they are marketed as a S-RPG i think that those games are more a S-RPG with VN elements than the opposite.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

As long as you have that narrative structure that defines VN (black ground, text box, doll sheets/characters sprite), well it is one of those, so long this narrative method is the predominant aspect of the said game (Blazblue has such kind of content, but you can't call it a VN for obvious reasons).

Lot's of japanese S-RPG's have VN traits though, mostly because it also tries to tell a story and sometimes they do it in a similar as a VN. As for Blazblue that's because people don't buy the game for the story, but the story mode itself is very much like a VN.

[Klashikari]

Well, after checking the PSP and PS3 websites, they basically consider it as a AVG with S RPG content.
I see no evidence they brand it mainly for its S rpg aspect, be it in terms of game genre or its general advertisment.

S RPG in general have a narration, but they do not put "AVG" all the time, because they use AVG as another term for galge, and suffice to say, the likes of tactics ogre etc do not fit the bill.

[hyl]

The pv markets the game as a S-RPG+ AVG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpw10R4Ck0U

This CM markets it's gameplay elements more than it avg parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJTF7H33U9k

edit: the gameplay in the remake did have a revamp x_X' but it's VN elements are still the same.

[Klashikari]

At this point, I will question what Aquaplus staff thoughts are about these 2 games, considering how wishy washy they are with the game genre . Granted, I'm not even surprised anymore, considering how game makers are just pulling their genre/game system name out of the blue.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

At this point, I will question what Aquaplus staff thoughts are about these 2 games, considering how wishy washy they are with the game genre . Granted, I'm not even surprised anymore, considering how game makers are just pulling their genre/game system name out of the blue.

There's the genre by technical definition, and then there's whatever the marketing people decide to pitch the game as, and those may not be the same. Generally speaking, whenever there's RPG-like gameplay, they tend to play up that angle, whether you would technically argue that's the heart of the game or not. I don't know if there's really an arbiter over whether something is one genre or another, particularly in cases where it's a blend.

At the end of the day, we could get into all sorts of arguments about genre and definitions. Some people argue that even the "Visual Novel" classification only applies if it's a full-screen text display (with images in the background), and that other games with lower-third textboxes are not Visual Novels at all, but rather AVGs (Adventure Games). But we generally associate "Adventure Games" with things like Zelda, so in the English scene we generally lump them all under "Visual Novels" as if it's the parent category. Then again, I have also seen "AVG Games" advertise themselves as "Visual Novels" in Japan.

So all that to say: arguments over classification are a bottomless bit. As long as everyone generally knows what we're talking about, probably better not to get too worried about the details.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by johnishida

Finished Aiyoku no Eustia. Overall the game was good but like I said before the plot is lacking. Character wise, they all play their role quite nicely though, Caim's attitude during Tia's chapter almost had me punching my laptop screen.

Aye, I liked Eustia overall (I think we had a separate thread for it burred here, somewhere ...), but the closing chapter was a source of undistilled anger Both because of how it ended (And that one following appendix story ... raaaargh!), and Caim losing his way for a good part of it, in a somewhat uncharacteristic for him manner. The overall anger levels were certainly high after finishing it, to say the least

On the plot part, I think that rather the plot being lacking in itself, it's the presentation and the games eroge roots that make it appear worse at times than it is. By that I mean the game offering you the possibility to end up with any of the heroines mid-way (to meet the typical gettable heroine quota of an eroge I guess), while the overall story clearly being written, structured and steered towards a specific ending alone.

But those 20-minute "alternate endings" are there, and as such have leadups to them originating from the main storyline, which feel fairly bleh in the pursuit of the overarching storyline. Not to mention these side "routes" (if you can call them that) being pretty silly in themselves. While Licia's was somewhat passable, the rest of them ... not so much.

So ...yeah, I think Aiyoku no Eustia would have benefit from omitting all these side routes altogether, (they were tacked on as it is) and just focused on integrating said characters better within the main story while not having to worry about connecting them to said side diversions at all.

Although that probably would have hurt the marketability of the title, so I can see why they did. Unfortunate, because it certainly had the potential to be more, but what can you do.

[johnishida]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Aye, I liked Eustia overall (I think we had a separate thread for it burred here, somewhere ...), but the closing chapter was a source of undistilled anger Both because of how it ended (And that one following appendix story ... raaaargh!), and Caim losing his way for a good part of it, in a somewhat uncharacteristic for him manner. The overall anger levels were certainly high after finishing it, to say the least

On the plot part, I think that rather the plot being lacking in itself, it's the presentation and the games eroge roots that make it appear worse at times than it is. By that I mean the game offering you the possibility to end up with any of the heroines mid-way (to meet the typical gettable heroine quota of an eroge I guess), while the overall story clearly being written, structured and steered towards a specific ending alone.

But those 20-minute "alternate endings" are there, and as such have leadups to them originating from the main storyline, which feel fairly bleh in the pursuit of the overarching storyline. Not to mention these side "routes" (if you can call them that) being pretty silly in themselves. While Licia's was somewhat passable, the rest of them ... not so much.

So ...yeah, I think Aiyoku no Eustia would have benefit from omitting all these side routes altogether, (they were tacked on as it is) and just focused on integrating said characters better within the main story while not having to worry about connecting them to said side diversions at all.

Although that probably would have hurt the marketability of the title, so I can see why they did. Unfortunate, because it certainly had the potential to be more, but what can you do.

Yes, anger was all that was left when I finished the game. Mostly because of Caim's sudden change and that I found the ending to be half-assed. Like, the writers tried too hard to make it seem like everything that happened wasn't so bad.

I agree, the eroge presentation was a downer for this game. I also didn't like the lack of interaction between the heroines and how their development pretty much stops once you finish their chapters.

Yes, they should had gone for a linear main story while integrating the other heroines better in it and just add their side-stories in the appendix part. After all, side-routes felt like an excuse to simply show the h-scenes since they contributed nothing to the plot itself.