Madan no Ou to Vanadis [Light Novel]

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Newhope

IRL not all nobles where knights.

In real life,all Western European nobles from baron or above are knights.You will be knighted regardless of whether you have the aptitude since you are basically the lord of knights.The only landed nobles without knighthood would have either be squires or members of the church.

[Newhope]

Nope to be knighted by a monarch had to be earned and was not automatic, most if not all nobles where trained as a knight not all where knighted.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Newhope

Nope to be knighted by a monarch had to be earned and was not automatic, most if not all nobles where trained as a knight not all where knighted.

I suggest you check your facts.Few Knights are knighted by monarchs back in those days.Those that are knighted by the monarch are either powerful nobles or the super rich who bribed the monarch to do so.Back in those days,any knight can knight another man.

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

I suggest you check your facts.Few Knights are knighted by monarchs back in those days.Those that are knighted by the monarch are either powerful nobles or the super rich who bribed the monarch to do so.Back in those days,any knight can knight another man.

Something like a completion of apprenticeship certification?

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

Something like a completion of apprenticeship certification?

Generally this is the case.Exceptions are made by nobles that are ranked baron or above,since they are expected to lead their Knights in battle.They are also expected to protect all those who recognize them as a lord.There's also the fact that it isn't hard for them to get one of their vassal Knights,a peer or even their liege lord to have them knighted.

[Armando99]

I don't believe that in this instance Tigre was knighted in the past. My argument for this is because of the fact that the weapon he uses is not considered "knightly" in Brune and this would prevent him from being knighted.

He was knighted only by the King after he saved Brune from the invasion and to a less extent (for internal political reasons I believe) from defeating Thenardier.

[Apoptosis]

Originally Posted by Armando99

I don't believe that in this instance Tigre was knighted in the past. My argument for this is because of the fact that the weapon he uses is not considered "knightly" in Brune and this would prevent him from being knighted.

He was knighted only by the King after he saved Brune from the invasion and to a less extent (for internal political reasons I believe) from defeating Thenardier.

This. Being born into a noble family and then succeeding your parent doesn't mean you're suddenly a knight. Although Tigre's shiny new title "Lumiere/Knight of the Moonlight" probably makes him a knight now.

[Tohno Ren]

Originally Posted by Apoptosis

This. Being born into a noble family and then succeeding your parent doesn't mean you're suddenly a knight. Although Tigre's shiny new title "Lumiere/Knight of the Moonlight" probably makes him a knight now.

And ... the secret behind that title will cause more terrible stormy event in the future

[Direwolf18]

There was also roman Knights. Thay were hereditary. Just you know to make things confusing. Or you could look at Samurai who are in many key ways parallel to western Knights. And before some weebo rages about the differences, yes they are there, and not just in the particular gear they used. They were a hereditary warrior caste. They also didn't shy away from using weapons like a bow, spear, or matchlocks.

But the fact that the old King gave him the title knight of moonlight seems to me to inicate he is a knight. If he was before or not could go a number of diffrent ways and seems like becoming a circular argument at some point. That would require more details on how knighthoods are handled then I saw at least.

[Ravagerblade]

This novel would be more fun to read if Tigre actually tried other weapons and uses them regularly. but no he has to use a bow that's haxxed, lol, I think it's pretty convenient that he's the only one who uses a bow, even if it's scorned in his land.

He may have the title and might have been knighted, but he certainly doesn't have all the skills necessary to be a proper Knight imo.

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

This novel would be more fun to read if Tigre actually tried other weapons and uses them regularly. but no he has to use a bow that's haxxed, lol, I think it's pretty convenient that he's the only one who uses a bow, even if it's scorned in his land.

He may have the title and might have been knighted, but he certainly doesn't have all the skills necessary to be a proper Knight imo.

What exactly are the proper skills to be a proper knight in your opinion ?

I personally thought being a knight was more about your character; being honorable, code of chivalry and all that, and contributing to your country and bringing glory to your realm.

Side note; the British empire pretty much knights anyone well known with reputable character. You might not think Elton John is a real knight, but he does, you know, actually have an actual knighthood granted by an actual queen. If real life can knight a gay piano player, who are we to argue when a Japanese guy makes a knight out of an overly haxxed archer in a made up story? Japan doesn't even have knights. Like, seriously, try a broader perspective. Less things will bother you. Though I do admit I really wished tigre would've developed some close quarters skills at first.

[black knight iust]

tiger does have knife skills, and hand to hand. at least I remember that from previous volumes.

[senjiro]

Lol he dont have? He fought againts a lot of guys(thenardier father&son, dragons, baba yaga....) with only his bow. Cause he cannot use a sword he is not a knight?.
Yes he sucks at anything but bow. And? Only cause in brune bow is despised(actually i want to know how the bow come to his ancestor hands, or maybe some king in the past was jelaous of his skill and begin to bm bow...)
When history go more advanced we'll see tigre as king(zech,brune ,both) with a powerfull harem) who will be the fool try to laugh at him cause only use a bow....

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by anonfr

What exactly are the proper skills to be a proper knight in your opinion ?

I personally thought being a knight was more about your character; being honorable, code of chivalry and all that, and contributing to your country and bringing glory to your realm.

Side note; the British empire pretty much knights anyone well known with reputable character. You might not think Elton John is a real knight, but he does, you know, actually have an actual knighthood granted by an actual queen. If real life can knight a gay piano player, who are we to argue when a Japanese guy makes a knight out of an overly haxxed archer in a made up story? Japan doesn't even have knights. Like, seriously, try a broader perspective. Less things will bother you. Though I do admit I really wished tigre would've developed some close quarters skills at first.

knighthood nowadays isnt really saying much

[Direwolf18]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

knighthood nowadays isnt really saying much

One would not expect Sir Paul McCartney or Sir Elton John to be proficient on the battlefield.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by Direwolf18

One would not expect Sir Paul McCartney or Sir Elton John to be proficient on the battlefield.

well the concert stage is a battle field just not the one we're thinking of

[Apoptosis]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

well the concert stage is a battle field just not the one we're thinking of

And Tigre isn't exactly luggage for not being able to use a sword on the battlefield.

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

knighthood nowadays isnt really saying much

True enough, but knighthoods these days do require renown at the very least, it's not* like you can just stroll into Buckingham and ask for it. My point is, if you're knighted then that's that. If it's that simple in real life, why should it be more complicated or require a special skill set in a book ?

Originally Posted by Direwolf18

One would not expect Sir Paul McCartney or Sir Elton John to be proficient on the battlefield.

Indeed

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

well the concert stage is a battle field just not the one we're thinking of

Indeed !

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Armando99

I don't believe that in this instance Tigre was knighted in the past. My argument for this is because of the fact that the weapon he uses is not considered "knightly" in Brune and this would prevent him from being knighted.

He was knighted only by the King after he saved Brune from the invasion and to a less extent (for internal political reasons I believe) from defeating Thenardier.

No it wouldn't.Like I've mentioned,it's not difficult at all to get someone to knight you,either from your father,a relative or a vassal knight.Most frequently though,your overlord or your neighboring lords may try to buy your goodwill(almost like some sort of godfather) by competing the honor to knight you.Becoming a knight is nothing when you are a noble as high ranked as a count.I think the question should be about how a family of huntsmen acquired such a high rank in nobility in the first place,not how can they acquire knighthood.

If you realized, the ranks of nobility descends from the following order:Emperor>King>Archduke>Dukes>Marquises>Counts/Earls>Viscounts>Barons>Knights/Squires(squires are pretty much the lowest rank of nobility,knights are only slightly better than them but not that much.Knights are generally richer than squires though in that they can afford a suit of armour,though this might not be the case as some nobles may remain a squire by virtue of them realising that they are not up to the task of fighting.)

The whole thing with different ranks of nobility is that they are essentially military ranks.Therefore,titled nobles are expected to command soldiers and lead battles.As a result,landed nobles at the rank of baron or above are expected to be knights.They are expected to fight.

[Ramero]

For the Knights i think Roland was an exception since he is the Knights amongst the Knights and the only Knight who wield His Majesty's sword Durandal. Roland will only accept orders from His Majesty and won't accept any orders from any nobles because he pledge himself as His Majesty's Knights.

It depends on where the Knights will swore their Allegiances anyway so either they want to follow Count, baron or any else it depends on the leader of the Order itself.

Tigre was merely an exception, in battle of Villecresnes he was mentioned a Marquis was under his command despite Tigre is a Count. Usually Marquis gains superiority due to higher nobility ranks but in Tigre's case is different since he is the founder and the Supreme Commander of Silver Meteor Army, any noble even Marquis who wants to join him will be directly under Tigre's command.