(L) Nisekoi (Komi Naoshi - Double Arts)

[Dorsai]

ImperialFlameGod8190 you need to understand that its only from your point of view and you got Raku emotions completely wrong... There was a lot of manga/anime went this way of telling story (Toradora, Kimi no iru, Ichigo 100 etc etc) and in all of them protagonist didnt realise his real feelings till end and giving false hope to shippers that he is still thinking only about his first crush... And how all of them ended? Nisekoi clearly is following this path too (there are obvious flags everywhere). Your examples are fine, but you forgot to mention that ALL of them are from first champters of manga when Raku just started to see Chitoge in new light and started to develop feelings for here... Now we are in different point of manga, way far ahead...

[larethian]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

First off to ignore the crush ruins you're argument and while u may be talking about blossoming love there really isn't any from raku chitoge is having a wildfire of emotions on her side but raku not so much still heavy team kosaki. Yes he acknowledge's she's attractive
Okay lets look at a few of the major points of things with raku and chitoge.

First off even as a fake couple they do an incredibly crappy job of it for the most part (anybody whose not clueless could tell they were faking by their actions towards each other)
When they all come over to tutor at rakus house all he thinks about is kosaki (even when he's trapped with chitoge yes he blushes but damn if you were above a girl like that you'd blush too even if you didn't like her that much its guy nature.
The pool scene when he has to teach kosaki to swim. He doesn't react at all really to chitoge in a bikini and goes mush for kosaki (Point dera). Plus the whole time he's thinking about how he can explain the misunderstanding to kosaki when everyone saw them like that.
Yes he saves chitoge when she drowns but that has nothing to do with his feelings but that's his personality too.
The school trip is a nice little twist and you'd think it'd be more interesting but remember this. When he's told he gets to hold hands with somebody the first thing that pops into his mind is holding hands with kosaki and he pretty much prays to get it (plus did u see his face when he did)
He does leave to save chitoge I acknowledge that however he's the only one of the group who knows about her fear of the darkness and knows she'd be helpless (I highly suspect tsugumi knows very few of her fears in these regards)
There are more but most of the moments are forced by the fact that she has to interact with raku because of the fake relationship and raku's personality.
Even the whole zwase in love thing. He thought the possibility that chitoge was the girl was surprising but still is in overwhelming favor to consider kosaki (plus if a girl says she'll let you do anything you want you're gonna get nervous almost regardless of the girl its guy nature 101)

Hmm, I wasn't being specific or precise enough, I suppose. I agree on the surface, Raku doesn't have particular 'feelings of love' for Chitoge from his actions. But no matter how I look at it, there is more bonding taking place between Raku and Chitoge compared to Raku and Kosaki, from my personal interpretation of the manga. Now, this bonding may swing over to love. It may not. Though, pretty much from my knowledge and reading experience, most properly written romantic comedies with clearly defined winners at the end have a better developed bond between the pairing, which makes readers (who properly read a work) accept the winner even if she's not their favorite. Now, I don't know what it'll be for this yet as it's still too early to tell and besides, it's not the point I'm making. Furthermore, Komi has plenty of time to develop the bond with Kosaki further.

Point I was trying to make was, the feelings from a crush not backed by enough substance can be easily overwritten by well-developed bonds. Thus, from my point of view, it doesn't make sense to me to use the 'feelings of crush', through quantification, as something for consideration, evaluation, prediction of who Raku might choose, or should choose. Your rankings are definitely mind-boggling to me.

In any case, Komi is keeping things open enough for now. Who knows, he might even choose the To-Love-Ru direction, though I hope he doesn't. And I hope he writes it properly. Even if Chitoge wins, I won't be satisfied if it's made out of asspulls and unreasonable shenanigans.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by larethian

Hmm, I wasn't being specific or precise enough, I suppose. I agree on the surface, Raku doesn't have particular 'feelings of love' for Chitoge from his actions. But no matter how I look at it, there is more bonding taking place between Raku and Chitoge compared to Raku and Kosaki, from my personal interpretation of the manga. Now, this bonding may swing over to love. It may not. Though, pretty much from my knowledge and reading experience, most properly written romantic comedies with clearly defined winners at the end have a better developed bond between the pairing, which makes readers (who properly read a work) accept the winner even if she's not their favorite. Now, I don't know what it'll be for this yet as it's still too early to tell and besides, it's not the point I'm making. Furthermore, Komi has plenty of time to develop the bond with Kosaki further.

Point I was trying to make was, the feelings from a crush not backed by enough substance can be easily overwritten by well-developed bonds. Thus, from my point of view, it doesn't make sense to me to use the 'feelings of crush', through quantification, as something for consideration, evaluation, prediction of who Raku might choose, or should choose. Your rankings are definitely mind-boggling to me.

In any case, Komi is keeping things open enough for now. Who knows, he might even choose the To-Love-Ru direction, though I hope he doesn't. And I hope he writes it properly. Even if Chitoge wins, I won't be satisfied if it's made out of asspulls and unreasonable shenanigans.

Okay that I can accept while I agree that most of the bonding is with chitoge its because him being around chitoge was essential to the original plot. (Raku is told by his parents date chitoge for 3 years to prevent a gang war. Now raku could've refused this but its clear he cares for the yazuka like family and he doesn't want to see them hurt).
Here's where we have a slight disagreement. You are right that well developed bonds can overwrite crushes if the bonds are natural the problem is the bonds with chitoge were forced because of the agreement much like TLR where its clear Rito is head over heels for haruna he's forced to bond with lala (otherwise her daddy will blow up the earth.
I'm not saying the bonds aren't there because clearly they are but here's the problem the bonds are heavily forced and the only developing feelings from my view are those of chitoge towards raku.
The openness of the manga in truth annoys me too. Onodera and chitoge I can live with (tsugumi i'm not really pleased with that whole fuss even though I get where its from). marika muddied the waters although I find her highly entertaining. Haru annoyed the crap out of me because adding her was unnecessary. Plus the very terrifying reality that there's a fourth girl to be added to the picture and he's either waiting to reveal her or its a red herring

[Lexxus]

Hah! That's why Marika is the best girl!

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by Lexxus

Hah! That's why Marika is the best girl!

u might wanna be more specific as to why marika is the best girl In your opinion cause that i'm not quite clear on

[Ginko08]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

People don't seem to get this but Raku has zero feeling for chitoge and zero interest in her. Its not that he doenst notice its that he doesn't pay attention to anybody but Dera. The girl from his past would be of interest but that's been blatantly ignored.

I wouldn't say zero, you're forgetting that he did blush because of her multiple times already. He is more interested in Onodera, but it's not like he doesn't feel anything fr Chitoge at all, she is basically locked in for the win already, going by the standard romcom logic.
And no, he doesn't notice it at all. If he were to be anything else than dense, he would have already noticed that Onodera loves him, but he never did, same with Chitoge. He is just that kind of an abhorrent moron.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by Ginko08

I wouldn't say zero, you're forgetting that he did blush because of her multiple times already. He is more interested in Onodera, but it's not like he doesn't feel anything fr Chitoge at all, she is basically locked in for the win already, going by the standard romcom logic.
And no, he doesn't notice it at all. If he were to be anything else than dense, he would have already noticed that Onodera loves him, but he never did, same with Chitoge. He is just that kind of an abhorrent moron.

Standard romcom logic sadly you're right but lets wait and see as for the blushing thing hm he does blush because of her but its usually surprise as much as anything else (as in he's surprised she knows how to smile instead of the enternal frown she usually has.

As for the storyline itself to end this debate the main problem is you have 3 storylines mixed with 1 that cant all end cleanly with the current situation
1. The war between raku and chitoge's family gang (the reason they faked a relationship in the first place
2. The actual feelings of the various girls in the show for raku.
3. The childhood promise and what that entails.
You cant end these stories and resolve all 3 cleanly at all u can get most of it but not all of it.

[Dorsai]

Raku stopped to care about that bond between him and Chitoge being forced long time ago... Now he is with her because he want and that whole time they spend together strenthened their bond a lot... He is person who can understand her best, even in last, filler chapter you have examople of it, few words from him and she can cook... The moment he will realise how important that bond for him is, manga will end with obvious ending... Im feeling like your opinion about Raku feelings is influenced only by first arcs of manga (your examples show it clearly) and you totally ignore all development from last serious chapters.... Look at Romeo and Julia and Chitoge mother arc, where was Kosaki? She was forced to back away in both arcs again... And even though Raku is still thinking only about Onodera, when it matter he always choose Chitoge over her... Same pattern as all manga with define main ending girl... You said that author still have alot of time to develop crush between Onodera nad Raku... Its alredy 110+ chapters, when he will start to give them any kind of development? In my opinion its already too late, lack of any development with their feelings to each over is clear sing that this relationship is going nowhere, heck even Marika is ahead of Onodera right now...

Besides lying detector is always telling you truth, he is already in love with Chitoge ;p That machine cant be mistaken ;p

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by Dorsai

Raku stopped to care about that bond between him and Chitoge being forced long time ago... Now he is with her because he want and that whole time they spend together strenthened their bond a lot... He is person who can understand her best, even in last, filler chapter you have examople of it, few words from him and she can cook... The moment he will realise how important that bond for him is, manga will end with obvious ending... Im feeling like your opinion about Raku feelings is influenced only by first arcs of manga (your examples show it clearly) and you totally ignore all development from last serious chapters.... Look at Romeo and Julia and Chitoge mother arc, where was Kosaki? She was forced to back away in both arcs again... And even though Raku is still thinking only about Onodera, when it matter he always choose Chitoge over her... Same pattern as all manga with define main ending girl... You said that author still have alot of time to develop crush between Onodera nad Raku... Its alredy 110+ chapters, when he will start to give them any kind of development? In my opinion its already too late, lack of any development with their feelings to each over is clear sing that this relationship is going nowhere, heck even Marika is ahead of Onodera right now...

Besides lying detector is always telling you truth, he is already in love with Chitoge ;p That machine cant be mistaken ;p

Romeo and Juliet is your best example you already lose their that was 60 chapters ago and since then nothing. In fact now that I think about it the only reason chitoge was Juliet was because of the fact that onodera got hurt. Chitoge's Mom forced him to accompany him neither onodera could control.

The reason raku is with chitoge is because that core is a group and hello (he's still faking being her boyfriend he kinda has to stay with her).
He still reacts far more to onodera read after chapter 50 and find me 3 moments that raku "choose chitoge". And it has to be legit Raku CHOOSING chitoge where he had a choice. I'd wager Haru Tsugumi and hell even Paula had more moments with Raku then chitoge since that point

[Dorsai]

Lol there are only fillers chapters now, you can prove nothing with them.... Who cares with whom Raku have more interacions in fillers chapters... There arent any moments where Raku could make choice without any external factors, thats why he never choosed either Chitoge or Kosaki, but there ARE always external factors forcing him to make choice and he always choose Chitoge over Kosaki (in Chitoge mother arc Kosaki was waiting for him at party, but he come back there only to take out Chitoge and to went with her to her mother place). Its not about thinking if Raku really have any choice or not in this situations, but about that being clear hint from author what he is plotting here... Every manga with this kind of storytelling (Toradora, Kimi no iru etc etc) where protagonist act that way always end in same way...

Reember Nanami words form Kimi no iru?

Spoiler:

"Why its always her, why in this situations you always choose her over me, did you really love me?". And its exaclty same situation like in Nisekoi external factors forced Haruto to help Eba, even though he was still talking all time that its Nanami who he like...

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by Dorsai

Lol there are only fillers chapters now, you can prove nothing with them.... Who cares with whom Raku have more interacions in fillers chapters... There arent any moments where Raku could make choice without any external factors, thats why he never choosed either Chitoge or Kosaki, but there ARE always external factors forcing him to make choice and he always choose Chitoge over Kosaki (in Chitoge mother arc Kosaki was waiting for him at party, but he come back there only to take out Chitoge and to went with her to her mother place). Its not about thinking if Raku really have any choice or not in this situations, but about that being clear hint from author what he is plotting here... Every manga with this kind of storytelling (Toradora, Kimi no iru etc etc) where protagonist act that way always end in same way...

Reember Nanami words form Kimi no iru?

Spoiler:

"Why its always her, why in this situations you always choose her over me, did you really love me?". And its exaclty same situation like in Nisekoi external factors forced Haruto to help Eba, even though he was still talking all time that its Nanami who he like...

You're using the romantic clusterfuck that is KNIM to make a point now I know you're screwed. KNIM there were times where im not even convinced the author knew what he wanted with that series. As for the whole filler chapter argument that's heavy proof that you have nothing to prove you're statement. the reason i'm using earlier chapters as arguments is pretty much that the plot hasn't moved since the amnesia arc and really that didn't do anything other then remind everyone the promise girl could be anybody. By the way speaking of Romeo and Juliet keep in mind that only had chitoge falling in love with Raku there was NOTHING on his end the entire time.

[SuitUp]

^
And then you have this work, where the autor sure knows what s/he wants with this series, which is to milk this cow for as long as possible, and then, when there's no possible way to do that anymore, finish the series with Chitoge as the main girl, regardless if some people feel the developments are forced, they're there and s/he will use them to that end.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

By the way speaking of Romeo and Juliet keep in mind that only had chitoge falling in love with Raku there was NOTHING on his end the entire time.

You are forgetting the Christmas arc where Chitoge's mother asks him whether the feelings he has for her are really just an "act". An author won't throw something like this out in the open if it doesn't have some significance.

[Waven]

Do we really have to go over this with ImperialFlameGod8190 again?

[SuitUp]

^
You mean this argument with that user has happened before?

[omimon]

Chitoge earns a lot of brownie points in this week's chapter.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

Romeo and Juliet is your best example you already lose their that was 60 chapters ago and since then nothing. In fact now that I think about it the only reason chitoge was Juliet was because of the fact that onodera got hurt. Chitoge's Mom forced him to accompany him neither onodera could control.

The reason raku is with chitoge is because that core is a group and hello (he's still faking being her boyfriend he kinda has to stay with her).
He still reacts far more to onodera read after chapter 50 and find me 3 moments that raku "choose chitoge". And it has to be legit Raku CHOOSING chitoge where he had a choice. I'd wager Haru Tsugumi and hell even Paula had more moments with Raku then chitoge since that point

I'm just saying but hasn't it been basically the Onodera family's fault that we have been getting so many filler chapters? Lately it seems that 98 percent of the chapters are Onodera focused just to make money. Also with all of these Onodera filler chapters they haven't gotten close they still act the same way. (I'll admit I loved the chapter with the mom trying to compete against the other shop)

[ultimate_noob]

Spoiler for Chapter 117:

An apple from Chitoge a day, keeps Raku's heart OK....

Kinda shocked when Raku suddenly collapsed....I thought it was serious....

I'll be happy if Komi goes full-force on Chitoge chapters from now on...two chapters is not enough.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by Waven

Do we really have to go over this with ImperialFlameGod8190 again?

some people are strong on their views i'm one of those people o well

[Frailty]

ah yes, the Shipping War