2008-04-19, 06:57 | Link #401 | |
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
Betraying your oldest best friend after he's saved your life numerous times, and killing your own father... wow, if that doesn't make somebody a bad person, I seriously wonder what would... |
|
2008-04-19, 07:29 | Link #402 | |
White Empress
Graphic Designer
|
Quote:
the father who was going to sacrifice Japanese lives to keep fighting I'm not saying that Suzaku is a good person......I think that in this anime, the main characters aren't good people. |
|
2008-04-19, 07:32 | Link #403 | |
Anime Hobbyist
Join Date: Dec 2004
|
Quote:
I think it is best that way. War is ugly and both sides are ultimately responsible one way or the other. The Japanese rebellion did show signs of some indiscriminate killing and terrorist activity in their end as well as being the underdog militia. Hell, the only character I can't touch at all is Shirley. |
|
2008-04-19, 07:39 | Link #404 | ||
Senior Member
Author
|
Which is why I added in "who saved Suzaku's life numerous times". The acts should cancel out in Suzaku's mind... leaving 'just' a best friend.
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2008-04-19, 07:46 | Link #405 | |||
Senior Member
Author
|
No, it's not. It demonstrates that Suzaku is not a character that's never been shown to be a bad person.
Again, I never said that Lelouch/Zero is a Saint. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Acutally, I would consider the Student Council President, and Lelouch's best friend in that Student Council (before Suzaku showed up), to have no known black marks against them. |
|||
2008-04-19, 07:59 | Link #406 | |||
Anime Hobbyist
Join Date: Dec 2004
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
2008-04-19, 08:09 | Link #407 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
|
Quote:
I seem to remember Lelouch wanting to force Euphie into shooting him so there would be a revolt and people would stop believing in her before the accident. He did change his mind, but his intentions were not peaceful to begin with (or I missed him saying otherwise and I'll have to rewatch some parts of the show) |
|
2008-04-19, 08:19 | Link #408 |
Anime Hobbyist
Join Date: Dec 2004
|
^
Lelouch making 'pu pu' jokes with Euphemia was what killed her. Pretty lame if you ask me. The biggest blunder he has made. Also, I wonder if Suzaku would've survived without Lelouch's Geass command? And would Lelouch have lived without Suzaku's own helpful interventions too? I don't think you can really go by who is truly the more 'bad' of the two when they intersect in their actions ALL the time. It's just that it's more easy to sympathize with Lelouch as the main protagonist fighting for a rebellion + his sister. While with Suzaku, his goals are more murkier and the end game not as well revealed. And like Lelouch has said, maybe Suzaku is going from the general flow of events while following his ideals and not directly with his head, planning all the time like Lelouch is. I always thought of both of them as two sides of the same coin but with totally different abilities and that hasn't changed yet. |
2008-04-19, 09:04 | Link #410 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
I'm gonna throw something in here about what's been said about Lelouch being willing to 'stop' along his path for the sake of Euphie/Nunally, but Suzaku not being able to.
Here's a question. What is the ultimate goal of these two characters? What are they fighting for? Lelouch has recognized, he knows that what he's doing is for selfish purposes. He wants revenge for his own sake. He wants a kind world for Nunally's sake. Like he told Suzaku, 'the world' (more like his world, really) does not revolve around ideals. Lelouch is personally attached, and has emotional investments, in all his goals. That is why Euphie is able to prevail over him; she pit his two emotional investments against each other, and the kinder one won. This isn't the case for Suzaku though. Although Lelouch and Suzaku are parallels in that they are both pushed onto the paths they are taking, in that they don't have any other choice than to act as they do, their motivations are entirely different. Suzaku is driven ideologically. All of Suzaku's actions are taken with an intent beyond his own personal best interests, beyond his personal well being. While Lelouch is willing to make others suffer to achieve his revenge, Suzaku is willing to make himself suffer for the sake of others' happiness. All of Suzaku's actions are taken with the best interests of the Japanese people, and of good people in general, in mind. At the very least, in his mind. So if Suzaku is fighting for an ideal beyond himself, why would he stop? Why would he give up? Suzaku is pursuing, the only way he knows how, what he sees as the ultimate good. This is something that he is willing to die for. Given that conviction, why would any kind of personal interest or emotion convince him to stop? Now I'm not saying that Suzaku is right. Nobody knows that yet, and we probably will never get to find out since Code Geass is Lelouch's story. But similarly, we don't know for sure that Lelouch is right either. So I've just gotta ask, when you can't know what is right or wrong in the world of Code Geass...how can so many people hate Suzaku for doing what he believes in? Really. If you consider Suzaku's history and the life he's lived so far, it makes perfect sense how he could come to hold the convictions that he does. |
2008-04-19, 09:07 | Link #411 |
Chicken or Beef?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 41
|
He justifies his murder, Suzaku is shown that he is willing to kill anyone who would disrupt what he thinks is right.
He's not good, he's just as bad as anyone who enacts self justice. He's a hypocrite, and he's delusional as well. If he thinks that a minority can change a bigotted empire bent on world domination, that isn't even a democracy, but rather a monarchy, from the inside, he's a dumbass. The moment he became a knight, he became a tool of the king. His job is to kill and nothing more, and when they don't need him anymore, whats going to happen? Easy, they gonna "off" the little chink ( I can say this cause I'm the same nationality :P ) and whos gonna speak up against the King? uh, no one. |
2008-04-19, 09:19 | Link #412 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
Ahahahaha. Oh, jesus. Fuck.
I wonder where all these people get the arrogance to deride another person's intelligence? Honestly, there's something called 'perspective', you know. I find it hilarious how all these sheep, with all the biases and hypocrisies of their own closed little worlds, can come in here and decry 'omg that guy's so retarded, I'm so much smarter than he is!'. Wow. Even you? Ah, man. This is really, just too rich. |
2008-04-19, 09:23 | Link #413 |
Chicken or Beef?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 41
|
Wow, calm down, did you wake up with a fork up your ass?
His perspective is F'd up and delusional, all great changes in history are done by destroying the oppressive government. If you deny it, then you yourself are deluding yourself. The only possible way that an empire like this will change is if the one who takes the kings place is a loving person like Yuffie. But she's dead now, and the rest of the kids are as egomanical as their father. |
2008-04-19, 09:34 | Link #414 | |
White Empress
Graphic Designer
|
Quote:
|
|
2008-04-19, 09:55 | Link #415 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blue Raider Nation
Age: 38
|
Quote:
Maybe Suzaku fans can take comfort in the fact that he used Euphie's death as a way to get himself a higher rank, while at the same time after getting that rank let the massacre of Japanese citizens go on without batting an eye. |
|
2008-04-19, 10:32 | Link #416 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Land of Dead Cakes!
Age: 34
|
By the beard of Zeus!
Quote:
Perspective is a nice thing, however, not all perspectives are equal. In fact, some are plain idiotic and shouldn't even be considered. So while it's nice that everyone has their own ability to percieve from a given scene or Season, it does not really give them unquestionable right to put that perspective up for show and vigorously defend it. Especially when there is little to no backing to the idea. I also find it hilarious that you find it convenient to insult the opinions of everyone who does not agree with you (the irony is amazing). That train of thought (or is it perhaps a strain?) stops working past the 3rd Grade. At which point, you need to actually argue points and not simply dismiss them as: "Lulz you wrong, I right!" Every human is hypocritical, that is part of human nature. Now, time for me to crawl back into my closed little world. Rich Chocolate Cake is Rich. |
|
2008-04-19, 10:35 | Link #417 |
Chicken or Beef?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 41
|
Suzaku has the luxary of being a high ranking officer, while never experiencing the slave like treatment the common people receives. Theres been time in history where a race of people who were basically enslaved, but theres that one whos of that race but sold his soul to achieve high rank to enjoy that luxary using excuses like Suzaku to make it look like he's doing it for the people.
|
2008-04-19, 10:52 | Link #418 |
WHERE'S...MY...COW????
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 33
|
The difference about Suzaku and Lelouch in season 1 was that Suzaku pretty much always thought he was in the right. Lelouch knew that a lot of his actions were dark in nature and could be evil and hated.
__________________
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|