2014-02-15, 12:15 | Link #2421 |
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@Key Board
Nobody is saying that people should give up on their feelings for another at the first sign of difficulty or a little bit of opposition/competition. But there does come a point where it's quite obvious that your feelings for that other person aren't going to be reciprocated. Hikari and Akari never reached that point, but Chisaki has (when it comes to Hikari). That's a key difference. Look, do you really think its impossible for people to get over unrequited love? Do you really think it's good for people experiencing unrequited love to just stay in that position indefinitely? Because honestly, that's the impression I'm getting from you and Miraluka. Don't you think at some point a person should push themselves to get over it and move on? Or do you think it's better to be like Aquarion EVOL's Zessica?
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2014-02-15, 12:21 | Link #2422 | |||||
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Age: 34
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Look at Chisaki, she knows she won't be loved back but she isn't derailing her life, just because now she isn't thinking on the next love alternative it doesn't means it's over for her. You said it yourself at some point but that is up to those people, not you, not me. PS: EVOL was a mess to me, but I can see what Okada can do when her wangst skill isn't restrained by the director from the staff. |
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2014-02-15, 12:29 | Link #2423 |
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I really don't get why you guys keep bringing up Akari. Her situation is radically different from Chisaki's, or even Hikari's.
You do realize that one of the first times we see Itaru (if not the first time), it's him locking lips with Akari, right? How the heck do you see "unrequited love" as an issue here? The Itaru/Akari issue was not an "unrequited love" issue. It was a star-crossed lovers issue exacerbated by a guy understandably still bearing the hurts from losing his first wife. It's a totally different issue. If anything, Akari speaks to the the value of moving on - as she relates to Itaru. Itaru could have refused to accept his wife's passing, and stayed a lonely widower the rest of his life. Instead, he moved on, and he has a beautiful new family to show for it.
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2014-02-15, 12:33 | Link #2424 | |
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Anyways, to me it's more like that Chisaki is keeping going back to square one because of Hikari. I mean, it's a while that the show gave us this duality between Hikari and Tsumugu telling Chisaki the complete opposite. Chisaki has been always contrary to Tsumugu's statements about her, even before the time skip. It's just that before the time skip it was showed in a positive way, she acknowledged them, but after the time skip she didn't take them in that way anymore, the truth is she didn't take them at all. Like she was in denial. This last episode she didn't even hear his thought. So on this front I think that the show is portraying this idea that she is resisting to Tsumugu's advices and everything behind them. On the other side she has Hikari that keeps telling her the opposite. So to me this dichotomy has always been like Hikari being the one who says what she want to hear and Tsumugu the one who says what she needs to hear. That is more consistent if we think that it's not just Chisaki that doesn't want to change, but even Hikari. So his affirming how she hasn't changed implies that he, and so their common reality, hasn't changed. What about Kaname that instead is living under the same roof with Chisaki? Is he totally misunderstanding what he sees? So it's not unlikely that Hikari is unwillingly keeping her from go ahead, and each time she feels uncomfortable she just needs to hear Hikari's words. Because those are the words she want to hear! If we look closely what is the sole thing that really didn't change? her feelings for him! So in a way her feelings are what are keeping her to square one. Because everything changed but those. Or, from another angle, they are not changing because they are the last anchor to her past, so letting them go would mean acknowledging the change she fears so much. That's what I got from the show so far and so that's why I consider her moving on, letting him go, meaningful and a necessity. Obviously the show could go anywhere, but honestly I'd feel, ehm, "disoriented" if she'd end still stuck on Hikari. And that has nothing to do with Tsumugu and his relationship with her.
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2014-02-15, 12:40 | Link #2425 | |
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2014-02-15, 12:49 | Link #2426 |
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Yep, it's just like Arya said. In the end, it's really more about her fear to change than her feelings for Hikari, which are merely a consequence of her real problem.
That's why it's obvious that if she doesn't mange to move on, this will be depicted in a negative light, just like in Zessica's case. Let's hope she will find the strength to face reality instead.
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2014-02-15, 15:27 | Link #2428 |
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Is it just me that even though what tsumugu said is a confession but at the same time it's really not? I mean it's not blatant but we all know for sure now that he likes her. Then again, I have a feeling he won't ever pursue her in order to maker her his. Knowing her situation of Hikari and kaname, I think he'd just want to stay the way they are.
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2014-02-15, 15:37 | Link #2429 | ||
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Moreover, what exactly is the relationship between changing and her unrequited love? Does she need to accept that she's changed or does she need to actually change? The latter I don't think is true since the episode seemed to hinting that she's already changed. But if she needs to accept that she's changed then the only application of that here would be to either realise that the age gap is an inevitable barrier (which doesn't seem to be the case, imo) or to realise that her perspective on Hikari has already changed so technically she's not stuck at square one: she just hasn't realised she's already at the finishing line (moreover, she's forcing herself to keep liking Hikari so she doesn't have to accept change, rather than the other way round). Now ultimately I think it would be better off for Chisaki to follow Tsumugu's advice (Well I think we all do) but it's important to note that Hikari's new found philosophy isn't entirely wrong. As far back as at the end of episode 5, Hikari commented on how Akari still seemed like a child when she was crying her eyes out at Miuna. He's also made similar comments about Miuna and Sayu, so I think the story is somewhat backing him up on his philosophy (Not to mention that he himself is living proof that things don't always change). So in regards to the dichotomy between Hikari and Tsumugu, I think Hikari is leading her astray or anything. I think they both represent a spectrum rather than a clear cut choice and it's up to Chisaki to figure out where she lays.
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2014-02-15, 18:53 | Link #2430 | ||||
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About the rest I almost agree in general, it's just that I felt more a feeling of resignation from her words, she seemed to think she had already lost what was meaningful for her. That is still acceptance, so that was fine for me. Quote:
The fact is that after the second part of this episode the ambiguity you are talking about somehow faded away. That's the main problem I think about the complains about Chisaki going back to square one. I already said how I found it too convenient and ultimately unnatural so don't let me go ahead on it Quote:
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2014-02-15, 20:31 | Link #2431 |
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Thinking back on Manaka's last private conversation with Tsugumu, when she compared him to the sun and all; I think Manaka is in love with the idea of the surface in general rather than Tsugumu in particular. In contrast to Tsugumu and Muina who seem to love the sea, Manaka doesn't want to be confined to it, she wants to see the sun.
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2014-02-15, 22:15 | Link #2432 | ||
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and as said, I don't she's going to seduce him either But as said, she can't force herself to forget about him People expect Chisaki to have a "forget Hikari and move on" switch. The heart is not mechanical, and I think she has extra burden since their last parting was pretty traumatic. I think she's going for the "keep Hikari in my heart and continue living" route and for that I think she acknowledging this Is this choice i would personally chose? No But it feels like the most fitting choice for her character so far As for Zessica: It's been a while since I watched Evol, but from what I recall she really didn't have any choices Were people expecting her to push the supposed "stop being in love with (main character)?" button Because I don't think that's a real option Unrequited love is painful, period But there's a saying, it's better to have loved and lost than to not have loved at all. I guess she'll be content with what happened
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2014-02-16, 04:19 | Link #2435 |
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I wonder if the lack of Tsumugu monologues was a conscious effort on the writers/directors part? Everyone has had an internal monologue but him. I also wonder about those pralles being drawn between Hikari and the sea god..
Last edited by deadite; 2014-02-16 at 04:49. |
2014-02-16, 07:36 | Link #2436 | |
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However, when it comes to unrequited love, you do have a choice. You can choose to keep the person you love (but who doesn't love you back) in a place of prominence in your heart and mind. Or you can choose to let go, and move on. "Let go" means you make a conscientious effort to stop thinking about the person you're in love with, and try to focus on other people and things. The old saying of "There's other fish in the sea" is all about this. It's all about refocusing the heart and the mind away from a failed, unrequited, or past love, and towards your present possibilities. Now, it isn't easy. And I respect that. But it is possible. It is a real choice that people can and do make all the time. And what I'm seeing with Chisaki is a person who is choosing to put Hikari in a place of prominence in her heart and mind, and who is choosing to dwell on the past and not let go. Yes, she is naturally drawn to those choices by her own emotions, but she could make a conscientious choice to try to move on with her life. And nowhere have I said that it's like flipping a switch or changing clothes. Making a choice to move on is just the first or second step in what's probably going to be a somewhat long journey.
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2014-02-16, 08:36 | Link #2437 | |||||
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Sweeping it under a rug is not a good idea. She must confront the issue, think and accept it. After that, maybe comes catharsis. I think admitting that she still loves Hikari is the right step. Besides, I think it's asking too much of her to make a "conscious" effort to stop thinking about him given the recent DRAMA. This wasn't chance a random re-union. This was a miracle. Quote:
Carrying a torch for someone can be the happier option. What you can't have can inspire you in a positive way. Must everyone let go and move on? Is that the only valid option? Quote:
I'm willing to bet that those that don't end up happy is because they had to "force" themselves to let go Again, is this the only acceptable route? Quote:
Really, all she did was admit she still loves him. Again, was does move on with her life mean? Can she only "move on" by forcing herself to not think of him? I think Hikari is part of her life and accepting the pain that comes with it is part of moving on. Quote:
If it comes to the point that you must treat it like a switch than I'd say it's a false choice
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2014-02-16, 10:30 | Link #2438 | ||||||||
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I mean, would you tell an alcoholic person that he shouldn't bother trying to get over his alcoholism because his addiction is likely to resurface at some point? And yes, unrequited love can be just as destructive to a person as alcoholism is, just in different ways. Quote:
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So I'm very much inclined to strongly disagree with you here, and I think you're engaging in wishful thinking. Quote:
"Look before you leap" "Eat healthy and make sure you get plenty of sleep" "It's important to get a good education" What I'm talking about on this thread is not far after these three, in my view. Quote:
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No, it's simply making a decision that begins a gradual process. It is the very opposite of "flipping a switch".
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2014-02-16, 11:07 | Link #2440 |
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What Chisaki needs to do is not to forget her unrequited love, but to stop nurturing these feelings/letting them grow. Reminiscing about how she fell in love with Hikari easily leads to the impression that she's actively indulging in her memories, which is frustrating from a storytelling point of view. On the other hand, the sentence "I still do like Hikari after all" was immediately followed by "And so [...] our time [...] finally started moving", so the optimist in me hopes that this is not the message the directors wanted to tell us. Which is why I'll use my imagination to come up with a different interpretation
When she was 14, Chisaki refused to accept her feelings because she was afraid of changing the group dynamic. Her fear manoeuvred her into a corner where she wasn't able to face her feelings directly (even her confession in episode 12 was a half-lie). She never gave herself the chance to move on from Hikari naturally and when she told herself to "grow up"/"give up", it was not because she wanted to move on per se, but because she was forced to do so in order to maintain the status quo. Five years later, she repeats the same thing and is depressed that her 19-years-old self doesn't fit into the group anymore. Again, she fails to decouple her change issues from her feelings for Hikari. Her wariness of change and her love for Hikari were always mutually exclusive. Episode 19 however seems to be the first time she's completely honest and open about both change and her feelings. She is 19, Hikari's 14...but she likes him anyway. For the first time, the change issue takes a back-seat. The optimist in me wants to believe that the Chisaki we see now is finally able to move on - not because her change issues dictate her to do so, but because she herself chooses to. |
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drama, harem, love polygon, mari okada, p.a. works, romance, seinen |
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