Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[I Fail at Life]

Originally Posted by monster

I'm not trying to make you like any of them if you don't. I, however, do, stock footage and all, one sided or not.

Agree to Disagree, where not going to Convice each other, well on this note. GOOD DAY SIR! lol Movin on.

I already know one way to make IJ vs Destiny and SF vs Legend fight look better and that is: Dont Show Shinn hallucinating and Rey freezing at the end. This way Kira and Athrun look better, and nobody comes off as being nerfed or bad pilots.

That way IJ trashing Destiny is more Belivable and have SF fire the "Full Burst" from some kind of Linked Combo *offscreen*, and then cut to Legend dodging and getting caught or just get caught. That right there makes it so much better without having to do much. I got so many ideas of Fights for Destiny constantly running through my head; it's Sickening.

[monster]

Originally Posted by I Fail at Life

I already know one way to make IJ vs Destiny and SF vs Legend fight look better and that is: Dont Show Shinn hallucinating and Rey freezing at the end. This way Kira and Athrun look better, and nobody comes off as being nerfed or bad pilots.

That way IJ trashing Destiny is more Belivable and have SF fire the "Full Burst" from some kind of Linked Combo *offscreen*, and then cut to Legend dodging and getting caught or just get caught. That right there makes it so much better without having to do much. I got so many ideas of Fights for Destiny constantly running through my head; it's Sickening.

I think it was done on purpose to show that they did not lose due to a lack of skill/technology.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by monster

Please point out the error.

I think the error of that shot is that it gives you the impression that Kira is trying to cut Impulse in half. Especially if you haven't seen Seed when that shot was used the first time. (It was in the Josh-A battle when Kira was going for the kill but instead cut off Duel's legs)

Kirayuki is right, this is a good example of how reused animation can create unnecessary confusion.

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by monster

Please point out the error.

Stock footage not compatible with what the character intend to do

Not at all, why would Kira decide to kill once and never followed through with it? The simplest explanation, of course, is that he never did decide to kill.

Not gonna to answer this because I don't know his thought process during that moment, and thus I judge based on what is shown on the screen. I was just simply pointing out from the animation error that imply he did try to kill once which I use to counter argue your statement that said he never try to go for the cockpit. It was not even being fixed in the Special Edition.

[monster]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

I think the error of that shot is that it gives you the impression that Kira is trying to cut Impulse in half. Especially if you haven't seen Seed when that shot was used the first time. (It was in the Josh-A battle when Kira was going for the kill but instead cut off Duel's legs)

Kirayuki is right, this is a good example of how reused animation can create unnecessary confusion.

Except, the part where it can create confusion wasn't reused. Other than that, it's actually a great way of showing that Kira did use the same moves. That's why Shinn and Rey could figure out Kira's moves.

As for the confusion itself, I see it now. But given what I said before, it doesn't make sense to interpret that as Kira going for the cockpit.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

Stock footage not compatible with what the character intend to do

The character intended to cut the Impulse, which is similar to what he did to Duel with the stock footage.

I was just simply pointing out from the animation error that imply he did try to kill once which I use to counter argue your statement that he never try to go for the cockpit. It was not even being fixed in the Special Edition.

Maybe because there's nothing to fix. What we saw is that Kira tried to cut Impulse near the cockpit. What we saw later on was not Kira trying to kill the pilot. So it makes little sense to interpret that one action as Kira going for the cockpit.

[I Fail at Life]

Originally Posted by monster

I think it was done on purpose to show that they did not lose due to a lack of skill/technology.

monster: Why you got to fight me on Everything lol. That's you implying that though. Instead it would show Athrun and Kira are just better skilled pilots. Two Pilots with suits in similar tech level, the better skilled one is gonna win. Showing one Pilot having a Seizure and the other one Normal, does not make him look good as a pilot for beating him, when he's Mentally out of it. Just don't show them having a Breakdown at the end.

[monster]

Originally Posted by I Fail at Life

monster: Why you got to fight me on Everything lol.

Hey, I just have my opinions and I happen to like voicing them.

I don't try to agree or disagree with any particular poster. It just sometimes turn out that way.

That's you implying that though. Instead it would show Athrun and Kira are just better skilled pilots. Two Pilots with suits in similar tech level, the better skilled one is gonna win. Showing one Pilot having a Seizure and the other one Normal, does not make him look good as a pilot for beating him, when he's Mentally out of it. Just don't show them having a Breakdown at the end.

Yeah, well, it happens. I don't think Fukuda was worried about making Kira and Athrun look any better at that point.

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by monster

The character intended to cut the Impulse, which is similar to what he did to Duel with the stock footage.
Maybe because there's nothing to fix. What we saw is that Kira tried to cut Impulse near the cockpit.

I don't see how you can interpret that into not aiming for the cockpit, if you watch that scene frame by frame it is pretty obvious that the beam saber original direction is the cockpit.

The problem with that being bad use of stock footage, it's pretty clear that it's not exact copy from Duel moment. They still animate the Impulse-separating part while not bothering to modify the Freedom's part which caused this confusion.

If you still think that Kira not trying to go for the cockpit then it's fine. You are entitled to your opinion. I don't see we can resolve this argument until they somehow fixed that obvious animation error with the HD Remaster edition. Until that happens, my opinion still stands.

[Gundamx]

You mean like how they re-used impulse power down for Destiny?
(Destiny can't have power down because it used same engine as SF and IJ.)

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

You mean like how they re-used impulse power down for Destiny?
(Destiny can't have power down because it used same engine as SF and IJ.)

This is not a serious problem because it's being fixed in The Special Edition (Shinn simply get told by Rey to return, the power down animation are completely removed)

[monster]

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

I don't see how you can interpret that into not aiming for the cockpit, if you watch that scene frame by frame it is pretty obvious that the beam saber original direction is the cockpit.

Because "near" is not the same as "at." The Impulse's cockpit is higher than where Kira was aiming.

[Kirayuki]

That screen is when Impulse already detached. Had Shinn not do that, he may have been toasted by the saber.

And honestly, being near or not do you really think that slightly adjusting it would still allow Shinn to survive a direct hit to the cockpit ? You'll either need to aim for the head or legs (which what Kira did to Duel) to completely avoid killing the cockpit.

So no, I don't buy that.

[Washu-Chan]

Which episode was it that they've retconned the deaths of Shinn's family (which was since re-retconned back to the Freedom-Calamity crossfire in the SE)? Was it before or after the first Shinn vs. Kira duel?

[monster]

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

That screen is when Impulse already detached.

What about a few moments later when the beam saber is still closer to the leg flyer while it was decreasing in altitude?

And honestly, being near or not do you really think that slightly adjusting it would still allow Shinn to survive a direct hit to the cockpit ? You'll either need to aim for the head or legs to completely avoid killing the cockpit.

It's not a direct hit. But going by Athrun surviving in the Gouf, I think Shinn would've been fine with how modular Impulse's design is.

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by monster

What about a few moments later when the beam saber is still closer to the leg flyer while it was decreasing in altitude?

No, that was the original position where the cockpit was. Notice that the leg flyer move down a bit while top body move up quite further. I don't see how that screen still contradict that "beam saber direction was for the area around the cockpit".

It's not a direct hit. But going by Athrun surviving in the Gouf, I think Shinn would've been fine with how modular Impulse's design is.

Just so you know, I don't buy that explanation where Athrun survive. But I will do so for the sake of answering this part.

When did Kira ever try to inflict that serious injury to the enemy pilot (during Destiny)? He know what he is doing.

Athrun was unscathed when he got Saviour'd and Rey whose Legend get blasted by Dragoon Full Burst still able to come out quite fine without any serious injury like what Athrun got from Shinn. Unlike Shinn, Kira really know how to kill or not to kill the pilot.

And let's say that Shinn would indeed come out fine because the director still need him to survive, would that change the fact that Kira's spur of the moment during that part imply he's aiming for the cockpit ?

[monster]

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

No, that was the original position where the cockpit was. Notice that the leg flyer move down a bit while top body move up quite further. I don't see how that screen still contradict that "beam saber direction was for the area around the cockpit".

That's why I said near the cockpit. Where I disagree with you is that it's aimed at the cockpit. At worst, Kira would've hit the front skirt armor had Shinn not detached and lowered the leg flyer.

When did Kira ever try to inflict that serious injury to the enemy pilot (during Destiny)? He know what he is doing.

Athrun was unscathed when he got Saviour'd and Rey whose Legend get blasted by Dragoon Full Burst still able to come out quite fine without any serious injury like what Athrun got from Shinn. Unlike Shinn, Kira really know how to kill or not to kill the pilot.

That is exactly is why I'm still confident that Kira did not intend to kill. If it was any other pilot, I would've agree with you. But with Kira, I am still certain that he had an idea (right or wrong) how close to the cockpit he could cut.

And let's say that Shinn would indeed come out fine because the director still need him to survive, would that change the fact that Kira's spur of the moment during that part imply he's aiming for the cockpit ?

If he was aiming at the cocpit, then that's fine. But I don't think he was based on what I've said.

[I Fail at Life]

All this ... is the exact reason that Fight needs to be Completely Redone, in terms of the Fighting and Outcome. *ASS piercing Phase Shift Armor* What?

They done pulled all kind of stuff out of their ass to have Freedom Defeated. Never seen them pull so much Bull to have one person Defeated before, this takes the Cake. No Integrity what so ever was put in that Fight.

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by monster

If he was aiming at the cocpit, then that's fine. But I don't think he was based on what I've said.

Which is why I already said before that I don't see how we can resolve this argument until they fix that stock footage in the HD Remaster of Destiny. The animation shown doesn't fit with the characters, you may take the character to be the reliable source of fact but I take both of them equally. I know you are entitled to your opinion, which is fine but until that time comes my opinion still stands.

EDIT : And no, I don't buy the explanation of that front skirt area would be not fatal. If it's not fatal, he would have done that to some enemies instead of cutting legs.

[monster]

Originally Posted by I Fail at Life

All this ... is the exact reason that Fight needs to be Completely Redone, in terms of the Fighting and Outcome. *ASS piercing Phase Shift Armor* What?

They done pulled all kind of stuff out of their ass to have Freedom Defeated. Never seen them pull so much Bull to have one person Defeated before, this takes the Cake. No Integrity what so ever what so ever was put in that Fight.

Actually, in this case I think they did it for the cool factor. Oh look, Impulse could separate itself and avoid an attack.

If Kira was aiming at the legs like he did with Duel, it would look stupid for Shinn to separate when he could just fly a little higher.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

Which is why I already said before that I don't see how we can resolve this argument until they fix that stock footage in the HD Remaster of Destiny.

They'd have to have a remaster for that to even be an option. I wonder if that was supposed to be the announcement that got cancelled/delayed. And even then, it might not happen because of, as I said, the cool factor.

[tetsuo69]

wouldn't make sense that kira went for the cockpit and at the last scene of freedom vs impulse fight, kira goes for the head and not the cockpit. don't make sense if you ask me but i do agreed it gives the impression that he was going for the cockpit to those that have never seen Seed. if they do make a destiny remastered this should be fixed and the impulse ASS part where the beam comes out from the tip of it.