[Manga] Do you believe Kakashi's words?

[chuckcsf]

Originally Posted by Naotaka

Nope, it's called being able to think for myself and make my own desicions. You should try it sometimes, instead of being a sheep, accepting everything that you're told. Like Cael pointed out, if Naruto was as great as you make him out to be, he would of been chosen for the Hokage position. Instead Jiraiya said, that he has a ways to go, and both, Jiraiya & Tsunade agree that Kakashi would probablly be the next one.

Sorry but fact is as you guys wanna point it out, that it's only 1 opinion that Naruto is on Kakashi's level. That opinion was given by Kakashi. As I've said before it could be nothing more then modesty. Since the Sannin don't seem to agree with that opinion either, I'll take their words over his. And till Kishi is actually able to show us decently that Naruto has actually surpassed Kakashi, I'll contine beliving what I want. Feel free to spin it any way you like, but I'm certainly no more wrong then you are.

What are you talking about being able to think for yourself? This is fiction so all the facts are provided by the author. If you "think for yourself" and don't believe in what the author is saying then you have created your own manga in your own head. Assuming that Kakashi admited that Naruto was stronger than him was due to his modesty, that's not what the story is saying so therefore you are making this up, creating your own version of the manga.

And as far as being hokage.... power is not the only requirement to become a hokage.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Hunter

But it doesn't change what Kishimoto intends to show. You think that he completely failed to show this "new Naruto" Yamato talked about? You think it's ridiculous to see Kakashi comparing him to Yondaime and Tsunade thinking of him as a future Hokage given what we have seen? You think Kakashi must be talking out of his ass when he is repeatedly saying Naruto is at least his equal?

Considering Naruto's future, of course, what he did is an important step towards that goal. I am not ignoring what he did. But, to me, the fight and its preparation has showed only what he is capable of doing (it is more like Kakashi's not completely efficient MS), more like pointer towards future, rather than pointer towards now.

About what Kakashi said, Naruto has the strength, and if Naruto can perform brilliantly from beginning to the end, yes, Kakashi's words have a lot of meanings. But, both you and I know that, right now, this is not the case. Naruto has yet to reach that level on the average rather than showing that at the peaks.

Well that's ok, in fact I agree Kishimoto didn't make a good job showing it, but it's not going to change a thing to what's going to happen.

I think no one is arguing the future. The past is what we are talking about.

It's like... Reading the volume 19 and hearing a spoiler about Naruto fighting Kabuto and laughting out loud at the idea that Naruto could somehow manage to land a blow on him and then watching Kabuto stupidly standing still and being struck down by a Rasengan or debating about the credibility of Naruto learning Kage Bunshin in a few hours whereas he sucked so much he couldn't learn any jutsu properly before.
You can find that unbelievable but it happened anyway.

I think you are changing the point. I didn't find the results unbelievable (even I defended Naruto's win against Kakuzu at the end). The problem is what was intended to be shown and what is shown are not matching. And, of course, that is highly related to Kishimito's failure in delivering, but, expecting him to over exaggerate the conditions to match his intentions would not do a lot of good to Naruto and his development. Instead, he should have avoided the over exaggeration, so that, the next thing he shows would have matched his intentions in the best possible way.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Naotaka

Nope, it's called being able to think for myself and make my own desicions.

Rrrrright!, reason why you go on and even create information never mentioned in the Manga, as what you did some posts ago.

As chuckcsf said, doing that by yourself only means creating your own version on the Manga, in this case, a Fan Fic!

[BlackShinobi07]

I have a question. If Naruto is supposed to be one of the strongest characters now that hes been said to be stronger than Kakashi, what hope does eveyone else have if he's being thrashed like this. I mean he cant even touch Madara. Does that mean Kakashi will be just as useless?

[Naotaka]

1on1 fight naruto vs kakashi, kakashi gets owned the moment 4tails comes out or when a FRS hits him = 1hko

Except we all know that Kakashi has paper seals, to prevent Naruto from going 4 tails from Jiraiya. Infact we've already seen Kakashi use it on Naruto before. So this argument of yours goes right out the window.

What are you talking about being able to think for yourself? This is fiction so all the facts are provided by the author. If you "think for yourself" and don't believe in what the author is saying then you have created your own manga in your own head. Assuming that Kakashi admited that Naruto was stronger than him was due to his modesty, that's not what the story is saying so therefore you are making this up, creating your own version of the manga.

And as far as being hokage.... power is not the only requirement to become a hokage.

Yep they're both powerful, I'm not taking anything away from Naruto. His Jitsu is stronger then Kakashi's Chidori. Thing is, both of them could kill each other in one blow, and Kakashi is much smarter then Naruto, more experienced, and well honestly aside from having less chalkra & stamina he is better then Naruto in every way. Not to mentino just like Sasuke's sharingan helped Sasuke fight off the army of Naruto cloans, on the roof top, and in the valley of end Kakashi would easily be able to do it himself also. Feel free to make up a lame excuse as to why he can't if you like.

Rrrrright!, reason why you go on and even create information never mentioned in the Manga, as what you did some posts ago.

As chuckcsf said, doing that by yourself only means creating your own version on the Manga, in this case, a Fan Fic!

Or you definetly have no idea what I'm talking about, and I don't even think you know wtf you're talking about yourself. Not making any fan fics, just going what I see in the manga. You took the word of one ninja who stated his opinion. And you're like zomfg this is like the bible & it's written in stone like a good little sheep that you are. I'm just stating the oppisate opinions presented in the manga, with the fact that the manga itself has failed to even remotly prove your case aside from one god damn line said by one person.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by BlackShinobi07

I have a question. If Naruto is supposed to be one of the strongest characters now that hes been said to be stronger than Kakashi, what hope does eveyone else have if he's being thrashed like this. I mean he cant even touch Madara. Does that mean Kakashi will be just as useless?

Probably yes. Kakashi won't do much better. Nobody has touched Madara because well.. he literally can't be touched. Until his "ghost" ability is figured out nobody can hurt him. So it makes sense that Naruto can't do anything against him right now.

[mayhem]

Its all about jutsu's, bloodlimits and techniques. for example

Kakashi might have a better chance against someone with MS because he has it then lets say naruto

Naruto will likely be better fighting someone who has numbers and power ( like pein) then kakashi would because of his shadow clones and the nine tails.

So, in my opinion, it all depends on the opponent.

[Adediran242]

Originally Posted by Naotaka

Or you definetly have no idea what I'm talking about, and I don't even think you know wtf you're talking about yourself. Not making any fan fics, just going what I see in the manga. You took the word of one ninja who stated his opinion. And you're like zomfg this is like the bible & it's written in stone like a good little sheep that you are. I'm just stating the oppisate opinions presented in the manga, with the fact that the manga itself has failed to even remotly prove your case aside from one god damn line said by one person.

Naotaka-sensei, I think you are taking this abit out of hand, your argument is not based on sound judgement so everybody else is pwning you with decent counter-arguments you cannot comeback with. You talk about how Kakashi is stronger than Naruto, but you can't seem to take it when said character makes a critical judgement about himself.
Aside from the 'Kishimoto wrote it' argument, if Kakashi says that Naruto is stronger than him then he is! Wouldn't Kakashi be the best person to know about his own limit of strength with all the intelligence and tactics you say he has?

[Ryuujin]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Well that's one of the theme's of the story, it's why they had a flashback of Jiraiya talking Oro. Knowing a bunch of jutsu is not what makes a great shinobi. Naruto represents that belief, so he doesn't need a boat load of techniques.

He needs to have more than what's he's got now, though.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Naotaka

and Kakashi is much smarter then Naruto, more experienced, and well honestly aside from having less chalkra & stamina he is better then Naruto in every way.

Yeah, Kakuuzu was supposed to be all that too, And look what happened!

Or you definetly have no idea what I'm talking about, and I don't even think you know wtf you're talking about yourself. Not making any fan fics, just going what I see in the manga. You took the word of one ninja who stated his opinion. And you're like zomfg this is like the bible & it's written in stone like a good little sheep that you are. I'm just stating the oppisate opinions presented in the manga, with the fact that the manga itself has failed to even remotly prove your case aside from one god damn line said by one person.

Ohh no, I know exactly what you are talking about, and definitely know What I’m talking about, What you are talking about is simple, there is something stated in the Manga, You don’t seem to like that, you go and invent things on your own to try and disprove what has been stated.

You talked about the Manga trying to prove a line, but that Line was created by the same person who could trouble himself to prove you or not what he says, The author really doesn’t care if a disgruntle fan doesn’t believe his own words in his own work, he put there the information and that’s it.

Facts in a written Work are not Absolute, even with showing you this with action, but they are the facts, You may not be content or not completely convinced about that, but it remains that this is an Info that is coming directly from the source, and, like this, is something that you need to accept it, this is not something the author is letting there for you to discern it from the truth or not, is about The author brining you a state of things in the current work, is an informative of what things are.

Is as simple as this, do you have ANY prove at all that Kakashi was incorrect or was been modest (that’s one is funny) about his comment regarding Naruto?

Heck, I myself was left un-impressed by Kakashi’s comments based on the little improvement seen, but even like that, I have accepted things as they are, because this was something said by the author, and made for preparations on How things are going to shape up in the future.

[Naotaka]

Naotaka-sensei, I think you are taking this abit out of hand, your argument is not based on sound judgement so everybody else is pwning you with decent counter-arguments you cannot comeback with. You talk about how Kakashi is stronger than Naruto, but you can't seem to take it when said character makes a critical judgement about himself.
Aside from the 'Kishimoto wrote it' argument, if Kakashi says that Naruto is stronger than him then he is! Wouldn't Kakashi be the best person to know about his own limit of strength with all the intelligence and tactics you say he has?

I realise this thing called modesty is lost on the average teen, but look it up sometime. For all you know, Kakashi might respect the fact that Naruto has more stamina & chalkra then him, and is there for able to do a jitsu Kakashi can't. That doesn't mean that's the only thing to a fight. And if you agree with the so called counter arguements that's fine, I could care less, until a fight is shown where Naruto can clearly outshine Kakashi, there's no reason for me to belive this.

Yeah, Kakuuzu was supposed to be all that too, And look what happened!

Uhh let's see, he took on Shikamaru, Kakashi, Choji, Ino was in the background just incase. Then took on Naruto, almost killed him, but Yamato saved his life. Almost killed Kakashi too, but Hidan mistakenly destroyed a heart of Kakuzu, when he thought he was killing Shikamaru. Yea real embarresment on his part loosing to 5 to 6 ninjas and getting screwed over by his own team mate. Damn dawg you sure got a point. What was I thinking arguing with sound logic like yours.

The rest of the bull you spatted out about fact is opinion. Until Kishi is actually able to show this, or says it himself, out side of the manga it's opinion presented by Kakashi, about Naruto. You have no fact. That's like me saying fact, Jiraiya & Tsuande agree Kakashi is more qualified for the job as Hokage. Fact Hokage is the strongest ninja in the land of fire. Fact Kakashi > Naruto.

Funny thing is I don't even give a damn about Kakashi. I just think it's funny how everyone is like omg Naruto is the f**king man, even though he hasn't proved he is better Kakashi, or a number of other people. Will he get there? Yea eventually, is he there now? Not a chance.

[Goshin]

@Naotaka
Naruto will never show that his stronger that kakashi the way you expect him to. the fact is naruto is a brawler type. he fights his oponents with pure strenght and chakra. if your're expecting naruto to fight with style it will never happen. kakashi one the under hand is more of a tactical type. if he and naruto had the same amount of pure strenght and power. kakashi is obviously the winner. but narutos has come to such a point that it may have surpassed kakachi's tactics. naruto is kinda like kenpachi from bleach minus the badassness. his brute strenght and power can prob over power people that use thier brains sometimes. I agree with your speculation about kakashi might just be modest. and like you i don't give a crap about naruto nor kakashi, but it seems your arguments is based more on your pure hatred of naruto...thus biased. I am just giving the poor guy break something kishi has failed to do in a while

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Naotaka

Uhh let's see, he took on Shikamaru, Kakashi, Choji, Ino was in the background just incase. Then took on Naruto, almost killed him, but Yamato saved his life. Almost killed Kakashi too, but Hidan mistakenly destroyed a heart of Kakuzu, when he thought he was killing Shikamaru. Yea real embarresment on his part loosing to 5 to 6 ninjas and getting screwed over by his own team mate. Damn dawg you sure got a point. What was I thinking arguing with sound logic like yours.

That’s what I like about selective Reasoning!

Could you agree then that When Itachi run away from Jiraiya it was more because he had fought Kakashi and Kurenai and Sasuke before?

Yeah, Kakuuzu faced a team of Shinobies, but the Manga never hinted in any way that When Naruto showed and faced him alone, Kakuzu was not in condition to fight him(this is what happens when you begin to counter the facts from the author, you begin to create things on your own). In addition, whatever happened to Kakuuuzu before his skirmish with Naruto is totally irrelevant, given his Experience and Intelligence was still there, the same aspects you used to Indicate why Kakashi was lying.

The rest of the bull you spatted out about fact is opinion. Until Kishi is actually able to show this, or says it himself, out side of the manga it's opinion presented by Kakashi, about Naruto. You have no fact. That's like me saying fact, Jiraiya & Tsuande agree Kakashi is more qualified for the job as Hokage. Fact Hokage is the strongest ninja in the land of fire. Fact Kakashi > Naruto.

Please, it is not “”bull”, it is how things go, I don’t go on beginning to think that the characters are actually real person that think for themselves. because there are tons of Lines from the Manga that comes from Characters, and these are things taken as fact, heck, even yourself have taken as face value things said by a Character that are not backed up with anything other than his words! (I maybe not posting a lot, but I sure read very carefully the posts of people).

And About the Hokage thing said by Jiriaya and Tsunade, The Manga has never proved that Kakashi is Hokage level of strength, so why do you believe Jiriaya and Tsuande, but You say Kakashi is lying? Or you either believe both, or don’t believe both, if you believe one or the other, you are just been subjective on your observation.

But to get to the point you tried to make, if the Hokage would had been only about the strongest, Oro would had been selected as Hokage. The only reason Why Oro was not selected as Hokage was because of his Twisted ideas…awwwwhhhhhhhhh Look how your “Hokage is the strongest and that’s it” rant falls of right of the table…with facts from the Author!

Funny thing is I don't even give a damn about Kakashi. I just think it's funny how everyone is like omg Naruto is the f**king man, even though he hasn't proved he is better Kakashi, or a number of other people. Will he get there? Yea eventually, is he there now? Not a chance.

Is not that you give a Danm about Kakashi or Not, is seems that you don’t seem content or convinced about something showed to you. Is the same as people who did not believed that Itachi was stronger than Oro, since it was mentioned by Oro, People where second guessing this quote because they just didn’t like it, and used the same line of argument you are using right now.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Naotaka

Funny thing is I don't even give a damn about Kakashi. I just think it's funny how everyone is like omg Naruto is the f**king man, even though he hasn't proved he is better Kakashi, or a number of other people. Will he get there? Yea eventually, is he there now? Not a chance.

Interesting, I guess, a non-Uchiha working so hard to make the borrowed Sharingan reach its maximum capacity is not a feature to respect.

On Kakashi and Naruto comparison, even though Naruto may not have proved on the whole that he is better than Kakashi, he achieved a feature neither Kakashi nor Yondaime (and maybe even Jiraiya ) was able to achieve, and he developed a jutsu on his own for which Kakashi may not be able to match the strength in its own lifetime. In other words, Naruto displayed some features which may put him above Kakashi.

Originally Posted by Rurik

Is the same as people who did not believed that Itachi was stronger than Oro, since it was mentioned by Oro, People where second guessing this quote because they just didn’t like it, and used the same line of argument you are using right now.

I have to say this because of my position in that discussion. Those two cases are different. First, Kakashi observed Naruto's growth and most recent skills first hand. Orochimaru and Itachi were separated by how many years? And, even the majority of the discussion on that issue was targeting the accuracy of that comparison in the past, not in the current time the comment was made.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Goshin

@Naotaka
Naruto will never show that his stronger that kakashi the way you expect him to. the fact is naruto is a brawler type. he fights his oponents with pure strenght and chakra. if your're expecting naruto to fight with style it will never happen. kakashi one the under hand is more of a tactical type. if he and naruto had the same amount of pure strenght and power. kakashi is obviously the winner. but narutos has come to such a point that it may have surpassed kakachi's tactics. naruto is kinda like kenpachi from bleach minus the badassness. his brute strenght and power can prob over power people that use thier brains sometimes. I agree with your speculation about kakashi might just be modest. and like you i don't give a crap about naruto nor kakashi, but it seems your arguments is based more on your pure hatred of naruto...thus biased. I am just giving the poor guy break something kishi has failed to do in a while

You are correct but i cant imagine Naruto becoming an Hokage without style.
I dont think that we (readers/viewers manga/anime) are waiting for an Hokage without any style.

Actually Gaara who is similair to Naruto made a huge change in both style and character. And he became quickly a character who fought with style.

Spoiler for my view on his (Gaara) battles:

(Feel free to correct me if i am wrong or missed something)

1# Gaara vs Rain Ninja's (Gaara fought with little style but dealt quickly with them) [unharmed]

2# Gaara vs Lee (Gaara fought reckless and won with a little luck) [unharmed]

3# Gaara vs Sasuke (Gaara was only on defense) [wounded for the first time]

4# Gaara vs Sasuke 2nd time (Well this was raw power, Sasuke couldnt win) [unharmed]

5# Gaara vs Naruto (Power vs Power) [seriously wounded]

6# Gaara vs Kimmimaro (Gaara fought without the Shukaku, he fought with style! I think even Konoha's top jounins would have a hard time vs Gaara) [unharmed]

7# Gaara (Kazekage) vs Deidara (A Kazekage fighting with style fitting for his rank and name. He lost but he fought as a kage we've seen earlier in action..like Sandaime.) [He got wounded and captured]

Now for those who like to know i'll do the same thing for Naruto (only his major battles).

Spoiler for Naruto's battles (only the major ones):

(Feel free to correct me if i am wrong or missed something)
1# Naruto vs Mizuki (He defeated Mizuki with 100+ clones..well i'd say he fought with style!) [unharmed]

2# Naruto vs Kakashi (He fought reckless and without style!) [he got hit but unharmed]

3# Naruto vs Zabuza {1st meeting} (He fought reckless in the beginning but came with an awesome plan to free Kakashi from the waterprison. Aside from the reckless beginning he fought as a good and smart shinobi.) [minor injury]

4# Naruto vs Haku (Well he fought without using his head, no comment) [passed out, minor injuries]

5# Naruto (Kyuubi) vs Haku (Simple brute force) [healed himself, unharmed]

6# Naruto vs Orochimaru (same as above...brute force proved to be useless against a Sannin) [his 4 season seal got sealed with the 5 season seal]

7# Naruto vs Kiba (In the beginning it seemed as if Kiba wouldnt stand a chance, he grew enormous you'd say.. but he fought reckless and won with luck. Decent finishing. Little style. [minor injuries]

8# Naruto vs Neji (Reckless and won on brute force!) [minor injuries]

9# Naruto vs Gaara (He fought with some style but also relied alot on the Kyuubi) [badly wounded]

10# Naruto vs Sasuke (rooftop) (Well it was pretty much an even battle, Naruto proved to be very cunning and Sasuke was annoyed by the fact that Naruto's jutsu actually surpassed his.) [unharmed]

11# Naruto vs Sasuke (2nd time) (Power vs Power...it was an dbz battle. With powerup after powerup) [minor injuries, knocked out]

[After the timeskip]

12# Naruto vs Kakashi (Naruto made some progress and used his head alot more, he grew quick a bit as everyone noticed) [pretty much unharmed]

13# Naruto vs Itachi (Well it was easy to see that Naruto made progress in his weakpoints..genjutsu. But he wasnt ready yet for a genjutsu master. He finished and killed Itachi (Yuura) with a stylish Oodama Rasengan. [unharmed]

14# Naruto vs Deidara (Brute force and totally lost it..the only positive thing was that he used his head saving Gaara's body...no further comment) [unharmed]

15# Naruto vs Orochimaru (same as above brute force more than ever...totally lost it and wounded his teammates)

16# Naruto vs Sasuke 3rd time (Naruto wasnt ready yet to face him...especially without using the Kyuubi) [unharmed]

17# Naruto vs Kakuzu (Made some drastic changes, he grew ALOT. He fought with style. It was a shame that his jutsu caused so many damage on his body. Didnt use the Kyuubi at all.) [major injuries, by his own jutsu]

18# Naruto vs Tobi (This remains to be seen..) I expect more style less brute force.

It was a long list but it's easy to see that Naruto slowly starts to fight with more style. Less raw power more brains. So it wont suprise me (he is still a genin afterall) that he'll become a chuunin/jounin and fights with style worthy the title jounin. Not to mention the fact that he'll be an Hokage unlike any other. We'll see a shitload of tactics, jutsu's and styles!! I am sure of it!

[Adediran242]

Originally Posted by Naotaka

I realise this thing called modesty is lost on the average teen, but look it up sometime.

Thank you sensei, I will do, but think about your comment. Your perfectly right about modesty, but who are shounen 4 originally? teenagers & preteens! Kishi is writing for a young audience so modesty has to b shown visually, not done with words. Anyhu, i'm done with this argument. Your opinion has clouded your judgement & caused you to disregard blatent fact. I can't be bothered anymore.

[naruto89]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

It was a long list but it's easy to see that Naruto slowly starts to fight with more style. Less raw power more brains. So it wont suprise me (he is still a genin afterall) that he'll become a chuunin/jounin and fights with style worthy the title jounin. Not to mention the fact that he'll be an Hokage unlike any other. We'll see a shitload of tactics, jutsu's and styles!! I am sure of it!

Well i think weve already seen a greater example of this stylish method of fighting for naruto with the kage bunshin assesment method he used to feel out kakuza's threads and that explosion from the water in the last chapter leaves much to be talked about with speculation it maybe a fuuton exertion, which brings me to the question which has puzzled me "does the tagline for naruto shippuden "the boy of the wind" hold any weight in future progression" as that cant possibly just indicate the use of fuuton abilities in one jutsu but overall. To be honest lately ive been hoping that naruto gains another "gimmick" from his own power and i beg it become's fuuton based.

regarding future rank, id like naruto to gain an esteemed rank that would illuminate him beyond his peer's (konaha 11 except neji) which would further progress the theme of naruto showing the villagers and fellow ninja;s that shunned him in the beggining what he's worth, which i think has been completely abondaned (the only example in part 2 is Ino dissing him, while he's fighting)

id like to see him exeed the chunnin rank and become a special jounin for scouting or something which he's demonstrated in this arc by taking the lead and using his tajuu kage bunshin scouting method, anyway im blabbering and im going to shut up and return to reading rather than writing

@Adediran242 u cant be serious with all that sensei crap, are u taking the mickey im curious for some reason.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by naruto89

Well i think weve already seen a greater example of this stylish method of fighting for naruto with the kage bunshin assesment method he used to feel out kakuza's threads and that explosion from the water in the last chapter leaves much to be talked about with speculation it maybe a fuuton exertion, which brings me to the question which has puzzled me "does the tagline for naruto shippuden "the boy of the wind" hold any weight in future progression" as that cant possibly just indicate the use of fuuton abilities in one jutsu but overall. To be honest lately ive been hoping that naruto gains another "gimmick" from his own power and i beg it become's fuuton based.

regarding future rank, id like naruto to gain an esteemed rank that would illuminate him beyond his peer's (konaha 11 except neji) which would further progress the theme of naruto showing the villagers and fellow ninja;s that shunned him in the beggining what he's worth, which i think has been completely abondaned (the only example in part 2 is Ino dissing him, while he's fighting)

id like to see him exeed the chunnin rank and become a special jounin for scouting or something which he's demonstrated in this arc by taking the lead and using his tajuu kage bunshin scouting method, anyway im blabbering and im going to shut up and return to reading rather than writing

@Adediran242 u cant be serious with all that sensei crap, are u taking the mickey im curious for some reason.

You are correct and i actually hope the same thing. But judging from what we've heard. Naruto will probably abandon the story for quite sometime to go in some other world training (my guess it has to do with the frogs).

I'd say all Frogs can sense/feel whether someone with the same contracts breaks it (like when a person dies) so it's a mere guess that Naruto is the only one remaining with the contract and he'll probably learn frog based new jutsu's and the ones who left jutsu's behind for him. (Thinking about Yondaime and Jiraiya)

Naruto wants and needs to be reckoqnized by the villagers but the only option left is a disaster involving the village with Naruto there to save them. That's the only way they will accept him. (especially the advisors) Whether he uses the Kyuubi's strenght or not they need to be protected by him and need to witness it. (Before fase 2, evacuate the villagers is completed)

The shinobi work in secrecy compared to the normal villagers so they'll never believe it if the other shinobi claim that he is a worthy shinobi and worthy to acknowlegde his existence. And Tsunade probably knows this. That's why he's still a genin. For his own protection (low profile, to avoid more enemies..genin) and because he isnt acknowlegded yet (needs approval and freedom from the Feudal Lord(s) and advisors).

Actually i would love it if Naruto would just disappear all of sudden (leaving no trace for 20+-50 chapters). And returns after 6 months or 1 year (in the series). To show us his transformed state, a brand new shinobi. A mirror of both Jiraiya, Minato but still Naruto. With plenty of changes (unrivalled and hopefully unique) that he'll earn a new nickname like Minato received for his jutsu (unrivalled speed, Hiraishin).

That will obviously leave space open to focus more on:
- Sasuke (like he would be forgotten by Kishi...but anyway he'd get all the opportunity)
- Kakashi (still growing)
- Sakura (potential to surpass Tsunade)
- All others..

But that remains to be seen.

[Black-Cat-Sama]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I'm not saying everybody believed what Kakashi said, in fact I'm not even saying it was very believable given what we have seen. I'm saying that being believable or not is completely irrelevant to the way Naruto will fight in his future combats.

Let's use a previous fight like Naruto vs. Gaara. Did Naruto had an ability to bypass the Sand Shield/Armor? Did he have enough speed to keep up with partially transformed Gaara who outspeeded Sasuke who at the time was as fast as unweighted Lee? The answer is no in both count but did it change the result of the fight? No. In fact when did Naruto ever trained his speed pretimeskip to become able to stand against someone as fast as Sasuke was?
You can whine all you want about all of this because it doesn't seem logical but it's not going to matter at all.
Sentences like this :

Are actually quite funny, Kishimoto isn't some kind of journalist talking about real people, they are nothing but what he wants them to be and if you don't believe him you are just going to whine some more when things aren't going to happen as you thought it would.

To return somewhat on-topic this is the same for Itachi vs. Sasuke, you see plenty of people saying it's absolutly impossible for Sasuke to win. Well sorry guys but yes he has a good chance now especially if this fight is the real deal (though I wouldn't bet on it, it's one of the very few fight I really have no idea what's going to happen). It's useless to compare their resumé (vilains always have a more impressive curiculum anyway) or trying analyzing their abilities (for the few we know from Itachi).

The only thing that matter is what Kishimoto wants to happen with his characters.

ur totally right about it all. lol but if you're gonna say the only thing that matters is what kishi wants to happen to his characters, then whats the point of forums and debate if "it wont matter what we say cuz kishi does what he wants lol " i say let the whiners whine ^ ^. Anyways, naruto sasuke. kakashi whoever, in the end the main character shall win one way or another, through his own death or his friends helping him. When naruto said he wud be hokage, his destiny was sealed lol. >,> honestly though, im just interested in the missing parts of the flashbacks we've seen of the Uchihas

[Black-Cat-Sama]

Originally Posted by BlackShinobi07

I have a question. If Naruto is supposed to be one of the strongest characters now that hes been said to be stronger than Kakashi, what hope does eveyone else have if he's being thrashed like this. I mean he cant even touch Madara. Does that mean Kakashi will be just as useless?

well... please enlighten me. Please show me who ahs been able to touch Tobi all this time... (deidara's comic relief doesnt count)