Character Discussion - Lelouch

[somersault]

Originally Posted by azul120

Leno screwed Conan O'Brien out of the Tonight Show, basically speaking, in early 2010. (The Jay Leno Show sabotaged Conan's TS ratings, which led to NBC considering bumping Jay back to 11:35, and Conan to midnight. Conan left, not wanting to tarnish TS; Jay got the TS back. Sound reminiscent yet?)

Sorry, I'm European and I don't really follow the gossip going on in US Tonight Shows. I do however know Conan O'Brien, he's hilarious as shit. I have watched a couple best of segments.

Originally Posted by azul120

He trolled Kallen as part of his whole "Lelouch Lamperouge" facade at Ashford, so she wouldn't suspect him of being Zero.

I was referring to sex-trolling, and not to you, the above poster, anyway.

@gundamfan99999999839283- All you got from that scene was sexual tension? Because, you must have skipped Kallen's inner thoughts and Lelouch's words to her after she landed on him. That scene demonstrates mutual caring and interest that of course, has no further development because it's once again cockblocked.

[azul120]

Yeah, it was one of those Not What It Looks Like moments.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by somersault

[SIZE="1"].

@gundamfan99999999839283- All you got from that scene was sexual tension? Because, you must have skipped Kallen's inner thoughts and Lelouch's words to her after she landed on him. That scene demonstrates mutual caring and interest that of course, has no further development because it's once again cockblocked.

No, I see it as a Missed Moment of Awesome, because it could have been tender, but they instead went for boobie and butt shots of Kallen.
Lelouch asking her to return to Ashford with him isn't any different then him wanting to return there to shoot off fireworks with all of his friends.
That's not to say the scene couldn't have been made into more.
It could have, but Okouchi was playing this shipping-war game with Kallen and CC each taking turns at blocking each other's chances with Lelouch.
It was stupid, and extremely agravating.
I mean really, let Lelouch get laid for god sake.

[somersault]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

No, I see it as a Missed Moment of Awesome, because it could have been tender, but they instead went for boobie and butt shots of Kallen.
Lelouch asking her to return to Ashford with him isn't any different then him wanting to return there to shoot off fireworks with all of his friends.

Have you ever watched any other anime series? Do you know the term fanservice, that can appear even at meaningful moments? That particular scene, wasn't just "oh lol assshot and titties!111"; it was a scene depicting Kallen and Lelouch sharing a heartfelt conversation before C.C. intervenes and you get the occasional fanservice needed shots.

Also, we don't know what Lelouch would ask of her, because the dialogue was interrupted.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by somersault

Have you ever watched any other anime series?

Hundreds.

Do you know the term fanservice, that can appear even at meaningful moments?

If it's done really well, sure, but that scene was not done well and it doesn't come off as a heart felt moment unless YOU WANT IT TO.

That's the difference here.
It is far more of a sexually driven moment than it is meaningful.
Kallen is the one we see wondering about Lelouch's refrain moment, but we don't know what the hell Lelouch is thinking.
Him saying "You wanna come back to Asford with me" doesn't tell us a damn thing.

Again, you can have the opinion that you feel it was heartfelt, but many Geass fans (speaking of animepaper, here, and MAL) don't see it as more than just fanservice.

That particular scene, wasn't just "oh lol assshot and titties!111"; it was a scene depicting Kallen and Lelouch sharing a heartfelt conversation before C.C. intervenes and you get the occasional fanservice needed shots.

In your opinion, but that's because you are reading into it.
If you apply that line of thinking to Lelouch and CC in this scene then you have to say the same thing.

Particularly when Lelouch tells CC, "I don't know why snow is white, but I do find such white snow to be beautiful. I don't dislike it at all."
That's a tender moment, and there are many of those between Lelouch and CC.
There are also a few between Lelouch and Shirley and a few between Lelouch and Kallen.
There in lies the problem.

Also, we don't know what Lelouch would ask of her, because the dialogue was interrupted.

Yeah I already said that.

[somersault]

"If it's done really well, sure, but that scene was not done well and it doesn't come off as a heart felt moment unless YOU WANT IT TO.

That's the difference here.
It is far more of a sexually driven moment than it is meaningful."

How the hell is that only a sexual driven moment? Kallen fell on top of him and despite the initial awkwardness, they proceed to converse being comfortable around each other despite their position.

Again, you can have the opinion that you feel it was heartfelt, but many Geass fans (speaking of animepaper, here, and MAL) don't see it as more than just fanservice.

Oh, suddenly I'm suppose to care about what the ~majority~ thinks? lolwhat
And thank you for allowing me to have my opinion, jeez.
tip - the majority is wrong, those posts as far as I can recall, were tons of gibberish mostly posted by 13 yrs old or delusional CluClu fans, I would know about them. They would shit on their pants whenever a magazine cover came out screaming "CANON CANON!111" while completely ignoring the facts on the show.

Particularly when Lelouch tells CC, "I don't know why snow is white, but I do find such white snow to be beautiful. I don't dislike it at all."
That's a tender moment, and there are many of those between Lelouch and CC.

There again with the random comparisons, why do you feel always the need to look down on Kallen/Lelouch scenes, labelling them only as "fanservice" and then you start posting C.C. and Lelouch ones declaring them as the absolute deepest scenes in the series? You got some issues there, you need constant confirmation that the couple you are supporting prevails or something?

And anyway, I never said that C.C. and Lelouch didn't share meaningful scenes. They shared tons, with highlights in R2 #23 (the bed scene) and #24 (when he tells her that she is not responsible for whatever he did with the Geass she gave him.)

The ultimate point you were trying to make was what? That people are gonna see whatever they want to see? Is that it, cause I'm getting whiplash from all your circling around.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by somersault

"If it's done really well, sure, but that scene was not done well and it doesn't come off as a heart felt moment unless YOU WANT IT TO.

That's the difference here.
It is far more of a sexually driven moment than it is meaningful."

How the hell is that only a sexual driven moment? Kallen fell on top of him and despite the initial awkwardness, they proceed to converse being comfortable around each other despite their position.
[/B][/I]

Gee, I dunno, maybe because of how Taniguichi had her dressed in a tank-top, and the camera angles he chose that give us a nice view down her shirt.
We don't know if Lelouch is simply boob-struck or if he's just being his normal friendly self when he asks Kallen such a mundane question.
He doesn't ask her on a date, or about her inner feelings.
He just asks if she wants to return to Ashford, that's it.

Again, you can have the opinion that you feel it was heartfelt, but many Geass fans (speaking of animepaper, here, and MAL) don't see it as more than just fanservice.[/I][/B]

Oh, suddenly I'm suppose to care about what the ~majority~ thinks? lolwhat
And thank you for allowing me to have my opinion, jeez.
tip - the majority is wrong, those posts as far as I can recall, were tons of gibberish mostly posted by 13 yrs old or delusional CluClu fans, I would know about them. They would shit on their pants whenever a magazine cover came out screaming "CANON CANON!111" while completely ignoring the facts on the show.

Yes, back in 2008 during the "shipping wars" there were a few CC x Lelouch fans that were rabid and I argued with them just like I'm arguing with you now.
The difference is that most of them stopped arguing after the show ended and the dust settled.
Kalulus are still fighting a lost cause because there is NO "CANON" pairing in Code Geass.

Particularly when Lelouch tells CC, "I don't know why snow is white, but I do find such white snow to be beautiful. I don't dislike it at all."
That's a tender moment, and there are many of those between Lelouch and CC.

There again with the random comparisons, why do you feel always the need to look down on Kallen/Lelouch scenes, labelling them only as "fanservice" and then you start posting C.C. and Lelouch ones declaring them as the absolute deepest scenes in the series? You got some issues there, you need constant confirmation that the couple you are supporting prevails or something?

Random?
No somersault, they are relevant when showing how your line of rationale can be applied to other scenes (CC is the easiest to find on Youtube) to show you that if your method of viewing the show is used with other characters then you must conclude that Lelouch loved Shirley, CC, and an argument could even be made for Rolo and/or Suzaku.
So you see, they're not random at all, they're relevant to the issue at hand.

And anyway, I never said that C.C. and Lelouch didn't share meaningful scenes. They shared tons, with highlights in R2 #23 (the bed scene) and #24 (when he tells her that she is not responsible for whatever he did with the Geass she gave him.)

NO, but you did say this originally.

Originally Posted by somersault

Did you watch the series at all?
Kallen was willing to kill Lelouch, despite her loving him, because she believed (according to Lelouch's elaborate plan "Kallen I was always deep down a sick bastard blah blah) he betrayed her and her comrades. How is that following him like a puppy dog? Prove me wrong only at this front, despite you having other wrong points that I can easily refute.

If you make this kind of declaration you are inviting me to challenge you.
And, as you have already admitted, you were proven wrong when you admitted that Kalulu is only an opinion not a fact.

The ultimate point you were trying to make was what? That people are gonna see whatever they want to see? Is that it, cause I'm getting whiplash from all your circling around.

You're getting whipped alright, but that's you own fault.

As for my point, you already said it yourself:

The problems rise when liking > show facts.

I'll say it again.
That is EXACTLY the point I've been trying to make here.
What pairing you WANT to be true, isn't true no matter how badly you want it to be because THERE IS NO OFFICIAL PAIRING.
As far as we know, Lelouch didn't romantically love any of the women that were in love with him.
Understand?

[somersault]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

As far as we know, Lelouch didn't romantically love any of the women that were in love with him.
Understand?

I'm not gonna reply to the rest of useless points you made, since you seem to be chasing your own tail but I'm just gonna say this, regarding your above point;
yes, we can never know for sure* if Lelouch loved romantically any of them, except C.C. He did not love her that way; that was stated in an interview, in Newtype that was? Someone enlighten me on that one, after the series ended. So your point about loving C.C. romantically, fails tragically, unless you would like to go against the word of creators? Yeah, didn't think so.

*for sure, I mean as an undeniable canon fact. Obviously someone with a trained eye, can reach a couple of logical conclucions provided by events on the show. You don't need somebody to come and fingerpoint to you this and that. At least, I don't, maybe you do?

Capisci?

[Destined_Fate]

He's just a hater. Lelouch loved Shirley and Kallen though his love for C.C. is strange since she was very motherly to him and constantly called him out on his BS as well as seeing the end of his journey even though it hurt her. Lelouch was also sexually attracted to Shirley and Kallen though he was the most embarrassed when dealing with C.C. in compromising positions/situations due to her motherly role since he had abandonment and dead mommy issues.

Poor Kaguya though, he never loved nor was he attracted to her. She was more of an annoyance and her alliance was important. Ironic since Lelouch was supposed to marry Kaguya when he was younger and Nunnally to Suzaku.

[Lolipopo]

I just love how the fact a boy is aroused by a sexy girl can only mean he is into her only for her boobs.
Part of love requests physical attraction, the fact Lelouch is attracted to a girl and shows it in some kind of indecent way is already a major A, and the fact that, right after that, he shares a lovely moment with the same girl, being all sweet and "Come back to the place that means so much to me with me..." means something.

But to get that, you'd have to take of your goggles off and accept that love and sex are related and that sex doesn't means there is no love.

But double standards are lovely

BTW The relation with C.C was lovely. But totally not romantic. And that is a fact, time to move on everyone o/ Shippers can make up their fantasies but to keep on saying that is a truth...come on ~

[somersault]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

I just love how the fact a boy is aroused by a sexy girl can only mean he is into her only for her boobs.
Part of love requests physical attraction, the fact Lelouch is attracted to a girl and shows it in some kind of indecent way is already a major A, and the fact that, right after that, he shares a lovely moment with the same girl, being all sweet and "Come back to the place that means so much to me with me..." means something.

But to get that, you'd have to take of your goggles and accept that love and sex are related and that sex doesn't means there is no love.

But double standards are lovely

BTW The relation with C.C was lovely. But totally not romantic. And that is a fact, time to move on everyone o/ Shippers can make up their fantasies but to keep on saying that is a truth...come on ~

Bless the heavens for this post. I like you pal.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by somersault

I'm not gonna reply to the rest of useless points you made, since you seem to be chasing your own tail but I'm just gonna say this, regarding your above point;
yes, we can never know for sure* if Lelouch loved romantically any of them, except C.C. He did not love her that way; that was stated in an interview, in Newtype that was? Someone enlighten me on that one, after the series ended. So your point about loving C.C. romantically, fails tragically, unless you would like to go against the word of creators? Yeah, didn't think so.

It's the R2 guidebook, and trust me, you don't want to use that to back up your opinions.

About CC it states this:

In C.C.’s profile, it says, “While she is entrusted to be a body-double and negotiator, he never yearns for her to be a mother-figure or lover, not even once.” C.C.’s profile also mentions that Lelouch saw C.C. as an equal to himself, a Partner. “Her trust in him is never betrayed. Lelouch’s kindness did not change even when he lost his memories, nor did he make a single grievance toward her when he made the decision to attack and kill his dearest sister.”

So this idea that he sees her as some kind of mother figure is total bullshit if you go by this book (and to clarify for Destined Fate, I'm saying the R2 Guidebook is full of shit, not you ).

As for Kallen, it states this:

In Kallen’s profile, it says, “Even though she is able to tell Lelouch, who assumed the seat of emperor, her decision of wanting to live and die alongside him, Lelouch rejects her. What he chose is Suzaku and C.C.” The profile also says that Kallen fought her hardest during the Fuji battle against Suzaku, but she was never able to grasp Lelouch’s mind or true intentions. “Afterwards, at the moment when Lelouch is stabbed by Zero in front of her eyes, Kallen realizes his thoughts for her- The little wish known as ‘I’d like you to fulfill your own dreams’.”

If you want to use that as your guide, have at it, all it does is solidify my point that Lelouch didn't love any of the women as far as we are told.
Anything else is pure fanfiction on your part.

*for sure, I mean as an undeniable canon fact. Obviously someone with a trained eye, can reach a couple of logical conclucions provided by events on the show. You don't need somebody to come and fingerpoint to you this and that. At least, I don't, maybe you do?

Capisci?

Nice try.
However, it is clear to me that I have successfully refuted your nonsense since you have not shown a shred of evidence to back up your fantasies.

Show me where, in any public interview, that Okouchi or Taniguichi state Lelouch loved Kallen.
If you can't, then concede the point.

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

I just love how the fact a boy is aroused by a sexy girl can only mean he is into her only for her boobs.
Part of love requests physical attraction, the fact Lelouch is attracted to a girl and shows it in some kind of indecent way is already a major A, and the fact that, right after that, he shares a lovely moment with the same girl, being all sweet and "Come back to the place that means so much to me with me..." means something.

But to get that, you'd have to take of your goggles off and accept that love and sex are related and that sex doesn't means there is no love.

But double standards are lovely

BTW The relation with C.C was lovely. But totally not romantic. And that is a fact, time to move on everyone o/ Shippers can make up their fantasies but to keep on saying that is a truth...come on ~

Oh, the queen of the Kalulus finally shows up.
I was wondering when you would.
I see you haven't grown any further on this subject, and you're still not letting facts get in the way of your bias opinions.

[Eragon]

You know the best reconciliation for this debate/argument? Ship C.C. X Kallen Now who doesn't like that?

[Lolipopo]

I love how people talk about bias when they are the one using false translation "rejects her ? " I remember a "she didn't understoof his feelings" not exactly the same meaning, but years have gone by and I gueass words do not mean the same anymore

And when the exact same people have once shipped Kallen and Gino (lolwhat) or have hidden their love for Cluclu so that people would thing they are neutral in their beliefs (L.O.L.) are the one talking about bias...I know I'm having a good day.

And yeah didn't have much time to think about it lately. The anime is over now, I've spent enough time seeing it by all sides (Kalulu, CluClu, official, etc etc) and now there is nothing more to say. Sad to see some are still so insecure about their ships they didn't find the strenght to move on.

Seriously, years after still at pulling on straws ?

Eragon : I've always been all for a Kallen/C.C. Their interactions were perfect, too bad the fanbase had to make of them the worst enemies ever xD

[somersault]

@gundamfan384984923048230483
"he never yearns for her to be a mother-figure or lover"

You obviously forgot to capitalize on that. Rest your case, he didn't see C.C. in a romantic way, sorry to burst your bubble.

Also, Okouchi/Taniguchi don't need to blurt out that Lelouch had romantic feelings for Kallen, they made it quite obvious in the series. Kallen misintrepeted Lelouch's silence in their final scene together (the kiss in R2-22) as rejection, while the opposite was happening; he was protecting her, because he wanted to create a new world for her, as he did for Nunally, Milly, Rivalz etc. etc. That is also stated in an interview as far as I can recall.

Stay pressed. I know the feeling when the ship you chose to support is sinking like Titanic..oh wait, I don't.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

I love how people talk about bias when they are the one using false translation "rejects her ? " I remember a "she didn't understoof his feelings" not exactly the same meaning, but years have gone by and I gueass words do not mean the same anymore

Ah yes, when the evidence doesn't back up their position, the fanatic calls it false.
The translation is fine, only Kalooney translators choose to translate it differently due to their bias.
They attempt to bend what Lelouch feels into something that does not exist.
In fact, I remember when episode 25 first aired, many Kalulus where making the false claim that Lelouch french-kissed Kallen.
However, when the other fans watched the episode it quickly became clear that the Kalulus were lying, and it would seem they've never stopped lying.

And when the exact same people have once shipped Kallen and Gino (lolwhat) or .

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with Kallen x Gino.
If someone wishes they were a pair or suggests it, it is perfectly acceptable since again, there is nothing in the anime to refute it.
If you think there is, show me where Kallen rejects Gino, and I mean comes right out and says it to him.
If you can't, then kindly STFU.

have hidden their love for Cluclu so that people would thing they are neutral in their beliefs (L.O.L.) are the one talking about bias.

Now you're not satisfied with just telling me what Lelouch thinks, now you're on to telling me what I think?
Listen High-Priestess Kalooney, you can play make believe with Lelouch's thoughts and feelings towards Kallen, Suzaku or hell Author the cat for all I care, but don't tell me what I think or feel.
You may be a psycho, but you're not a psychic.

Originally Posted by somersault

@gundamfan384984923048230483
"he never yearns for her to be a mother-figure or lover"

You obviously forgot to capitalize on that. Rest your case, he didn't see C.C. in a romantic way, sorry to burst your bubble.

Also, Okouchi/Taniguchi don't need to blurt out that Lelouch had romantic feelings for Kallen, they made it quite obvious in the series. Kallen misintrepeted Lelouch's silence in their final scene together (the kiss in R2-22) as rejection, while the opposite was happening; he was protecting her, because he wanted to create a new world for her, as he did for Nunally, Milly, Rivalz etc. etc. That is also stated in an interview as far as I can recall.

Stay pressed. I know the feeling when the ship you chose to support is sinking like Titanic..oh wait, I don't.

So you have no evidence to back up your claim.
Essentially you're blubbering like a little baby and crying "I Want Lelouch to love Kallen, whaaaa!"

At this point I view the Kalulu-extremists like you as being no different than the cart-driver club.
Okouchi said Lelouch is dead, and he also said Lelouch died a virigin because he had no time for relationships.

In other words, according to the head writer himself, there is NO official pairing.
Therefore, no matter how bad you want your fantasy to be true, there is no factual evidence that Lelouch loved Kallen romantically (or anyone else) outside of friendship.
None.

You then attempted to use the R2 Guidebook as some kind of rebuttal, but didn't realize it is damaging to ALL of the romantic views with regard to Lelouch's feelings towards ANY of the women in Geass.
According to the Guidebook, he rejected Kallen. No matter how the Kalulus attempt to spin, twist, or distort that statement, it's meaning is the same.
He told Kallen to get out of his life and go live her own.

Speculation is all anyone has with regard to Lelouch's romantic feelings.
And no, I'm not a CC x Lelouch fan, I'm a Lelouch x Harem fan, and I acknowledge my view as pure assumption/speculation.
I don't act like it's a fact since I know better.

[somersault]

@gundamfan49348309430

Just because the creators of the show didn't declare an official pairing, that doesn't mean there weren't hints of what could possibly be; honestly, Shirley and Kallen were both candidates to develop a romantic relationship with Lelouch, had circumstances allowed it.

My point is, just because there are no tons of interviews to say "THIS IS THE COUPLE, I'M ANNOUNCING THIS FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE 5 YRS OLD AND CANNOT DRAW CONCLUSIONS ON THEIR OWN K BAI BAI".
When triangles or rectangles are involved, usually the writers refrain from declaring canons and such, so everybody can believe the couple they supported was the most plausible. Well, tough shit, creators are trolling while at the same time hinting. (hinting to the smart people, obviously.)

There are several examples of that, on the top of my head Macross Frontier for one, everybody with a functional brain knows that the canon couple is Alto/Sheryl, or FFVII, same with Tifa/Cloud.

[azul120]

Kallen saw Gino as too much of a clueless and sheltered blueblood.

[shinigami99]

Lelouch has his harem, and I'm happy with that, but I think it would have been better for the writers to try to develop these "relationships" more than they were in the series. Probably the most developed one was ShirLulu, yet even in this pairing we are not sure to the extent to which Lelouch liked Shirley. The fact that there is a debate (and the fact that people are relying on post-series guidebooks) about the extent of the C.C. and Kallen's relationship with Lelouch (Partner, lover etc.) means that this wasn't developed as it should (or at least, what I thought it should have been).

However, this also can't be helped since shit was continuously hitting the fan in Code Geass and there was literally no possible time for this development to take place. Or at least, what was shown in the anime. Code Geass wouldn't really be Code Geass without shit hitting the fan all the time so I guess sacrifices had to be made.

[Lost Cause]

Since the character I supported died, I really don't have a car in this race, but I'll say this much, all three female characters had their chance, unfortunately Leluich was too hung out on revenge, a crappy childhood, a sister fetish, and just a general doom and gloom atitude, that any of Tge three could have paraded naked in front of him and he might have got an itch!
Suffice it too say I've moved on and am enjoying Akito now.
But please continue the delusional meanderings, it's quite entertaining!