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View Poll Results: Chuunibyou Demo Koi ga Shitai! - Episode 11 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 33 | 33.33% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 31 | 31.31% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 20 | 20.20% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 9 | 9.09% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 2 | 2.02% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 1.01% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 1 | 1.01% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 2 | 2.02% | |
Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-12-16, 19:20 | Link #141 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: California
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You make it sound like her chuuninbyou tendencies have gotten more serious compared to the beginning, which it hasn't. She's been roughly on the same wavelength since the start to the end, so I do not really see how her avoiding her father's death has "begun pushing her toward being truly delusional".
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2012-12-16, 19:25 | Link #142 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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2012-12-16, 19:47 | Link #143 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: California
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2012-12-16, 19:56 | Link #144 | ||||
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Also, I think you have to consider the Mori Summer effect. When the most popular and respected girl in school joins your club, I think that gives you a certain immunity against being picked on a lot. In fact, Shinka being in Rikka's club might have even caused the teacher's to reconsider it. Having a student with a very good reputation on your side can go a long way in a school setting. Quote:
Heck, I actually find that less realistic than most of what I saw before this episode. Quote:
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To be completely frank, I don't know how anybody can watch this episode and think that Rikka's chuunibyou was an entirely bad thing.
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2012-12-17, 02:24 | Link #145 | ||
Irregular Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 37
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I interpreted Ishihara's comment as Rikka's chuunibyou problem is shown less serious than it actually is (in-universe). Not that her problem is less serious than what should have been in real life. So, if I understand his comment correctly, it doesn't support your position. In fact, it invalidates the argument "I don't see her having any serious trouble due to her chuunibyou, so pre-episode 11 Rikka is totally ok" because it's not that she doesn't have any problem, it just that we the viewers don't get to see them even if she has them. To push this further, this implies Rikka does have a lot of troubles due to her chuunibyou. However, I'm reluctant to do so because even if he is the supervisor, his comment is still not part of the show. Thus, I'll stop at just using the comment to argue that we cannot conclude that her chuunibyou doesn't get Rikka into any trouble. For the other point, I do think her chuunibyou has gotten more serious when it involves her family, which is now unavoidable because she has to live with her mother. If you think that it hasn't, then I'll just have to disagree. Quote:
I don't think anyone argues that it's entirely a bad thing. The problem is right now it fused with something entirely bad. |
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2012-12-17, 07:14 | Link #148 | ||||||
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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In other words, this was Rikka being happy about a real accomplishment. Quote:
People can hate. People can act on that hate and kill another person for revenge. Despite that, could you support them continuing to act on those emotions? Your real world analogy is flawed. Quote:
As circular as this sounds, the key to having a good support structure is that it actually does... you know, support, as the name states. Every little bit of happiness you seem to attribute to Rikka's chuunibiyou, especially the bit where she was happy after the test, you don't seem to recognize that part where Yuuta made an effort to keep her in check and ground her in reality. The above mentioned avatar was when she passed a test on a subject she was the least proficient in. Even, if you could argue that it was not so much about her efforts paying off as it is about the rewards, even the rewards are more realistic than finding the Horizon or defeating some fantasy villian. Rikka gets to change and exchange contact info with the boy she is most interested in. She gets to save her club that she made. Then there's officially entering a relationship with the guy she loves. These are all realistic consequences that made Rikka happy, and yet you seem to believe that letting her have her way with her chuuni fantasies like a child playing with a sharp object he thinks is a toy instead of stopping him is the way to happiness. The club is fine. Playing fantasy on her own free time is fine. Even pretending that it was your magic powers that opened the train doors is fine. However, playing around and dropping flour for visual effect when the teacher only allowed you to have a club when the room was cleaned is not fine. Drawing pictures and fantasizing when you're supposed to be doing algebra problems to save your own club is not fine. There are clearly times where Yuuta should not just play along. When it comes to meeting Rikka's mother who is not nearly as harsh as Touka or their grandfather, I don't see why it's wrong for Yuuta to make Rikka stop playing around, even just for those moments. Quote:
What's hard to support is the fact that despite saying you support a "rehabilitated format", you don't really show much support for rehabilitating measures. All I advocate is that Rikka needs to stop trying to find her father in the Unseen Horizon, and that Yuuta should stop her if she does. If she wants to have fantasy battles with Dekomori in the clubroom, that's fine. If she wants to run off to find the Horizon or her old home that's located miles away and leave behind her other friends, Yuuta needs to stop her, not play along. Rikka can have her chuunibiyou in the right place at the right time. Going back to where Rikka would play around making a mess of the club room or the swimming pool they were ordered to clean is not the right place or the right time. If she needs to have her chuunibiyou back, it needs to be different from how she's been using it. Quote:
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LARPing is fine as long as it's done in a private area (or if a public one, an area where it does not disrupt the community) on private time. Rikka does it even when she has other obligations. Last edited by Shadow5YA; 2012-12-17 at 07:26. |
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2012-12-17, 07:16 | Link #149 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Not harmless is the same as entirely bad? Can anyone view the bento sequence and NOT come to the conclusion that Rikka's chuuni has something to do with her dreadful family life? Yes, Yuuta has fixed all the problems at school; social isolation, math, etc. nevertheless, unless you buy the argument that Rikka's family are all villainous individuals, surely there is a problem at hand when Rikka's mother appears clothed not necessarily with realism, but with the tropes of a gentle and benign anime mother. Otherwise, nothing makes sense for the last three episodes, in terms of plot or characterization. I don't think I've EVER said Rikka's current mental state is desirable, but the writers have inserted dramatic conflict for a reason. Yes, Rikka MUST reconnect with her chuuni, because it is so tightly bound to both the whole series and her character, but it must be moderated to some degree. And to moderate it now means there was too much of it before, and I don't know what else could be the purpose of introducing the mother.
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2012-12-17, 08:24 | Link #150 |
a random Indonesian otaku
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Xanadu
Age: 32
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painful last three episodes...
love surely can change many things... but what changed Rikka isn't love... it's just another way to escape... I really hope Rikka will find a peaceful way to end her chuuni-syndrome like what Yuuta and Nibutani did... not like this please! feel sad during the last three episodes... poor Deko~chan... |
2012-12-17, 11:29 | Link #151 | |||
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: California
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I do not believe her chuuninbyou is the main reason for her poor relationship with her mother for the reasons previously stated prior and probably after. Quote:
1) Father dies 2) Mother leaves Touka and Rikka in the care of the grandparents for about three years(?) 3) Touka leaves to go to the city to work one year after Father's death 4) Rikka is left alone in grandparent's house for roughly two years 5) During that time Rikka's chuuninbyou begins much to the disappointment of the grandfather. 6) Serious friction occurs with the impasse between Rikka's chuuninbyou and grandfather's strict policies. 7)After 2 years (?) Rikka lives with Touka In all seriousness, I am more likely to point out that the absence of 2-3 years with Rikka's mother is the problem, not her chuuninbyou. Rikka may believe herself that discarding her chuuninbyou would cause her mother to worry less, but I don't think her mother really cares one way or another. Not trying to belittle her accomplishment for passing the class average on the test, but at that time she was probably more happy she could prevent her "Far Eastern Magic Society of Summer Naps" from being disbanded since she worked so hard to create. I would also say Yuuta was keeping Rikka "focused", rather than "grounded in reality".
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Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2012-12-17 at 13:33. Reason: Editing your post to add new content is the best option here. |
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2012-12-17, 13:38 | Link #152 | ||
Irregular Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 37
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About the delusional escalation of Rikka's chuunibyou, I guess I can only ask for an agreement to disagree at this point. I already explained that when involving her family, to me, Rikka came out as clinging to her fantasy rather than playing with it. Put it differently, she was a slave to her chuunibyou rather than the master. I can accept that you interpreted those scenes differently, however. Quote:
Last edited by Hyper; 2012-12-17 at 13:39. Reason: Delete one space |
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2012-12-17, 14:01 | Link #153 | |||
Beyond the Fringe
Join Date: Jun 2011
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2012-12-17, 14:17 | Link #154 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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She is by no means mental or a criminal, but she is quite disruptive and that's beyond "just comedy relief". Quote:
Just for the record, Japanese people use 友達 for friends in a buddy way (people you can hang around and have fun with), which is not as close as 友人 or 親友, both of which respectively mean friend (close one) and best friend. In a sense, it isn't hard to expect kids to have some friends that they can hang around, especially within the same class. The problem is how Rikka can interact with barely anyone to the point that she basically knows -no one-. And while the anime sure didn't put the point as it would be overkill for the comedy: any lonewolf of such magnitude are quick to attract bullies, regardless if they are boys or girls. Really, while her attempt to make friends look a feat, it is actually more than that, because she has simply none, except the club members. Quote:
Did the anime show she didn't care about her? No. Did the anime show that she ditched Rikka for the hell of it? No. Was she affected by Rikka's mutism? Yes. Was it the only reason? Who knows. You keep using such sledgehammer without actually presenting evidence or hints of such allegations, not even starting from the very points that actually discard the "mere abandonment" theory. 1) If she abandonned Rikka, she wouldn't come back, period. It doesn't make sense for someone who really abandonned their child to show up afterwards 2) Japanese culture put a huge emphasis on image, but also duty and society. If you failed at something, the general response would be to be ashamed of that, instead of fixing the issue. If someone is being responsible for a mistake, they take full responsibility. A situation like that does involve parents who think they do not deserve to be one and should not be responsible of their child, otherwise they might deal more harm than good. The rift between Rikka and her mother is no one's fault, since it was a way too sudden loss for everyone, and right now Rikka's problem is -something else- than that.
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2012-12-17, 14:31 | Link #155 |
Beyond the Fringe
Join Date: Jun 2011
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As usual, I can't really be bothered to respond to all of your goobble-dee-gook, but I will comment on:
Since we already know that you have not personally been intimately involved in a situation where a mother has abandoned her young teenage daughter(s), and I have, I think that experience rules here. It is not a matter of whether or not it makes sense. Yes, a mother who has previously abandoned her young teenage daughter(s) might just come back at some later date to reunite with them. She might even seek the custody of said children which she previously forfeited. Perhaps it doesn't happen in Japan. Or perhaps it's never happened before in any anime series. But, in reality, it does happen, and I'm 100% sure my particular case is not unique. If I felt motivated, I'm sure it would take little time to find headline legal cases involving these circumstances. |
2012-12-17, 14:35 | Link #156 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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And pretty much like before, you take a single "personal experience" as granted and "truth" for everything else. Experience does not rule anything when it comes to -case by case- basis, and circumstances, even moreso when it is about emotional stuff.
And yet, you still didn't present anything that at least give actual credits to your claim that she "clearly abandonned" Rikka, as if the latter was a dead weight. I must remind you that you were the one who alledgy think that she "came back as if nothing happens" and other mentions that was not even presented by the series. Did she do the best course of action? Most likely not. Did she care about Rikka? Many scenes point out it is the case. Does Rikka hate her? No, proved multiple times. So is her mother the problem? No.
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2012-12-17, 14:43 | Link #157 | |||
Irregular Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 37
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2012-12-17, 15:49 | Link #158 | ||
Beyond the Fringe
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Okay, just one more response and that's it for this episode thread for me.
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So, the facts that we have been presented with are: 1. Rikka's mom knows her husband is terminally ill, but does not tell Rikka 2. Rikka's dad dies 3. Rikka finds out that her mother knew dad was terminally ill and stops talking to mom because mom did not tell her 4. Rikka's mom tries to get Rikka to talk to her, but fails 5. Rikka's mom drops her children off with their paternal grandparents and leaves 6. Rikka's sister moves out leaving Rikka alone with her grandparents 7. Two years later Rikka moves in with her sister Things we don't know are: 1a. How long Rikka's mom knew her husband was terminally ill 2a. before he died? 3a. How long after her dad died before Rikka found out her mother had deceived her, or how she found out? 4a. How long did mom try to talk with Rikka before she gave up? 5a. How long after dad died before mom dropped off the kids, or 5b. why she did, and where she went or what she did? 6a. How Rikka was treated for two years by her grandparents (although it is hinted at)? Well, there's plenty more unanswered questions, but I'm losing all motivation regarding this thread (some of you will be pleased). Although I find the banter and debates very entertaining, reading all the posts this episode thread, and responding to some, has been very time consuming, time better spent elsewhere. I do have a life that is not computerized. Like I said before, I just hope the director is able to create a credible, believable, and positive ending for this series. |
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2012-12-17, 17:14 | Link #159 | |||
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2012-12-18, 00:15 | Link #160 | |||
Irregular Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 37
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It would be hard for me to suggest a specific scenes showing that her delusional behavior escalated. It is an impression I have over several scenes when her family is involved. If pressed, I'd say that Rikka repeatedly insists "It exists" much, much longer when it concerns her family issue indicated such. She really lacks the off-switch at those time. Rikka usually drops it fairly quickly if her fantasy do not benefit her in other situations, such as when she tried to play a double personalities. The thing about whose-fault-is-it question is that I think the most logical conclusion, given the little we know about her mother, is we don't know enough. My current impression is that Rikka equally share the blame with everyone around her. However, that is not the only scenario I can think of to satisfy all known information. (Please allow me to make a reference to one of my favorite stories) THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER Yes, I just want to say it. |
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chuunibyou, drama |
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