AnimeSuki Forums

Rising Dragon · 2013-03-30, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansker

Well, about Klaus I believe he actually live a long live after Olive. I mean he did train a lot after it so he became the man with the “strength of a 100 man” or something like that. Part of the idea is that he always regret being weak when Olive kick his ass before killing herself. And not to reduce any impact on it, because isn’t a bad idea, but again execution. So Klaus might live longer.

Except it was stated that Klaus didn't live long after Olivie. His grief basically killed him.

Sansker · 2013-03-30, 18:27

Then how he became so strong to the point that is the entire thing that pushes Einhart? I mean he was not just a pussy fighter but also die from sadness? He need to live more.

Rising Dragon · 2013-03-30, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansker

Then how he became so strong to the point that is the entire thing that pushes Einhart? I mean he was not just a pussy fighter but also die from sadness? He need to live more.

What pushes Einhart is because Klaus wasn't strong enough to defeat Olivie. Einhart wants to change that and succeed where Klaus failed, in order to ease her ancestor's regret by proving the superiority of the Kaiser Arts she inherited.

Keroko · 2013-03-30, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Except it was stated that Klaus didn't live long after Olivie. His grief basically killed him.

Which is rather silly in light of him reaching strength of hundreds and having descendants and all...

Kuze · 2013-03-30, 18:30

I'm prepared to accept that Olivie's death ended the war and stopped a lot of the logistical effort towards continuing it as well as taking the fight out of a lot of the rank and file, but her death didn't stop conflict and didn't stop the die hards.

Like it made many people step back and realize that the war had erased all of its causes, that there wasn't going to be any Belkan empire ever again, and that it was time to move on.

As far as Klaus goes, I think Lu said that no one knows for sure who was stronger between Olivie and Klaus, except that we see Olivie defeat Klaus. But it's also said that Klaus became a lot stronger after Olivie's death, but how short a period that is isn't set, so it could be a few weeks, or a few years.

In retrospect, what would Einhart say if someone asked her whether or not Olivie was right to make her sacrifice?

Rising Dragon · 2013-03-30, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Which is rather silly in light of him reaching strength of hundreds and having descendants and all...

Nothing states that he couldn't have gotten married and had children before Olivie had his ass handed to him. It was also stated that Klaus and Olivie had a sibling-like relationship, rather than one of lovers. And come on. It's Nanoha. Reaching strength of hundreds as a Belkan warrior wouldn't be terribly surprising; magic increases strength. Look at Quint. Strong enough to swing around two Revolver Knuckles when her own cloned children are cyborgs and unable to perform the same feat for lengthy periods of time.

Sansker · 2013-03-30, 18:35

Yes… well, that idea doesn’t even work because Olive could only control one small part of the fight: the Belkan empire. And when you say the war has being going to centuries one more death doesn’t seem to able to change that in one day. Then again this is a simple story so I will buy it if they do give it nice, not this die and fix thing.

Also, I agree with Keroko. A man with such power and strength that just dies of grief doesn’t seem that strong leader figure Einhart seem to admire. The problem is that little failure haunts his descendents with impossible ideals, magic power and the stupid adult mode. Also the relationship between Olive and Klaus isn't clear. It was close but they never say as sibilings or lovers.

Rising Dragon · 2013-03-30, 18:38

There's plenty of instances in fiction where strong leaders are brought down through the loss of loved ones. I'd give to you one Egwene al'Vere from Wheel of Time as example. I don't see why Klaus wouldn't be any different. He's not an unfeeling robot, after all. I imagine the same would happen if, say, someone killed Fate--Nanoha would be crushed by it, regardless of her own strengths.

I agree on the negative impact his memories had on his descendants, though. It really does seem like a curse, and Einhart's lucky that meeting and befriending Vivio seems to have set aside the bad dreams in favor of good ones, but it doesn't change what harm it's already done to Einhart's mentality.

Kuze · 2013-03-30, 18:39

Without context it's hard to say but Olivie was supposed to be #1 or share #1 spot and also had the superweapon Cradle on her hand. Who's to say that the loss of both wouldn't be a enormous blow to morale for people who have been fighting on the slim hope of her managing to conquer everyone else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising_Dragon

I don't see why Klaus wouldn't be any different. He's not an unfeeling robot, after all.

Well no one is saying that he shouldn't feel anything.

It's just that he doesn't exist in a vacuum either - he had all of that power and responsibility and ability at his hands - and what he passed down in the end was and is decidedly not positive or constructive.

Nanya01 · 2013-03-30, 18:39

Hell, look at real life...

Theodore Roosevelt, one of the most badass Presidents of all time, finally gave up after his second wife died and passed away not too long after in his sleep.

Keroko · 2013-03-30, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Nothing states that he couldn't have gotten married and had children before Olivie had his ass handed to him. It was also stated that Klaus and Olivie had a sibling-like relationship, rather than one of lovers.

Oh yeah, there's that.

Kuze · 2013-03-30, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Hell, look at real life...

Theodore Roosevelt, one of the most badass Presidents of all time, finally gave up after his second wife died and passed away not too long after in his sleep.

Well, not the greatest of comparisons after all of the losses that Theodore suffered on top of that.

But even in that case, Theodore tried his damn hardest to leave behind a better place than the one he came from. Not always in the best of ways and definitely not always the right way, but he tried.

Sansker · 2013-03-30, 18:46

Well, I guess this trip to the librery will give us some answers to all of this. So I will be reading the chapters when they are translated and comment on them if they do have something of value. Unlike chapter 45.

Rising Dragon · 2013-03-30, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuze

It's just that he doesn't exist in a vacuum either - he had all of that power and responsibility and ability at his hands - and what he passed down in the end was and is decidedly not positive or constructive.

Agreed, but we know that Klaus's descendants weren't the ones who filled whatever power vacuum that may have appeared after Olivie's death. The Bureau did, since it DID exist back then.

Mr Coin · 2013-03-30, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Agreed, but we know that Klaus's descendants weren't the ones who filled whatever power vacuum that may have appeared after Olivie's death. The Bureau did, since it DID exist back then.

Wait, I thought the Bureau was established 78 years ago? And the Unification War ended approximately at the same year, 78 years ago? Does that mean that both Olive and Claus have had lived for centuries since the interactions between the two of them in Einhart's dreams are like 600 years old?

If you guys are confused, I'm talking about the chapter when Einhart was fighting against Corona, who fused her own movements and strength with her golem causing huge damage to her own body. The fighting style Corona was using reminded her of Olivie recklessness 600 years ago when her arms were replaced with "dolls"(?).

Rising Dragon · 2013-03-30, 23:39

I'll need to check my sources again. It's been a while and the Bureau being around then was something someone on this forum informed me of.

Justin_Brett · 2013-03-30, 23:45

That's probably a typo.

Or Tsuzuki retroactively realizing 60 years is a bit too little.

Lhklan · 2013-03-31, 00:07

According to THIS page: http://nanoha.wikia.com/wiki/Chronology

The Unification War ended approximately 20 years before Modern Calendar year 0001.

Sansker · 2013-03-31, 00:10

Well that is odd because at times they say this is ancient history like several hundred years, and it even look ancient with castles, horses and all that, but this was just 100 years ago? They do work fast to fix everything so easily. And yet this was "Ancient Belka" history.

Lhklan · 2013-03-31, 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansker

Well that is odd because at times they say this is ancient history like several hundred years, and it even look ancient with castles, horses and all that, but this was just 100 years ago? They do work fast to fix everything so easily. And yet this was "Ancient Belka" history.

->Ancient
->Spaceships (Cradle, remember?)

2013-03-30, 18:27	Link #2862
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Then how he became so strong to the point that is the entire thing that pushes Einhart? I mean he was not just a pussy fighter but also die from sadness? He need to live more. __________________

2013-03-30, 18:35	Link #2867
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Yes… well, that idea doesn’t even work because Olive could only control one small part of the fight: the Belkan empire. And when you say the war has being going to centuries one more death doesn’t seem to able to change that in one day. Then again this is a simple story so I will buy it if they do give it nice, not this die and fix thing. Also, I agree with Keroko. A man with such power and strength that just dies of grief doesn’t seem that strong leader figure Einhart seem to admire. The problem is that little failure haunts his descendents with impossible ideals, magic power and the stupid adult mode. Also the relationship between Olive and Klaus isn't clear. It was close but they never say as sibilings or lovers. __________________

2013-03-30, 18:38	Link #2868
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	There's plenty of instances in fiction where strong leaders are brought down through the loss of loved ones. I'd give to you one Egwene al'Vere from Wheel of Time as example. I don't see why Klaus wouldn't be any different. He's not an unfeeling robot, after all. I imagine the same would happen if, say, someone killed Fate--Nanoha would be crushed by it, regardless of her own strengths. I agree on the negative impact his memories had on his descendants, though. It really does seem like a curse, and Einhart's lucky that meeting and befriending Vivio seems to have set aside the bad dreams in favor of good ones, but it doesn't change what harm it's already done to Einhart's mentality. __________________

2013-03-30, 18:39	Link #2870
Nanya01 Left for TFF Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Frozen Hell of the North Age: 41	Hell, look at real life... Theodore Roosevelt, one of the most badass Presidents of all time, finally gave up after his second wife died and passed away not too long after in his sleep. __________________ My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.

2013-03-30, 18:46	Link #2873
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Well, I guess this trip to the librery will give us some answers to all of this. So I will be reading the chapters when they are translated and comment on them if they do have something of value. Unlike chapter 45. __________________

2013-03-30, 18:30	Link #2865
Kuze Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	I'm prepared to accept that Olivie's death ended the war and stopped a lot of the logistical effort towards continuing it as well as taking the fight out of a lot of the rank and file, but her death didn't stop conflict and didn't stop the die hards. Like it made many people step back and realize that the war had erased all of its causes, that there wasn't going to be any Belkan empire ever again, and that it was time to move on. As far as Klaus goes, I think Lu said that no one knows for sure who was stronger between Olivie and Klaus, except that we see Olivie defeat Klaus. But it's also said that Klaus became a lot stronger after Olivie's death, but how short a period that is isn't set, so it could be a few weeks, or a few years. In retrospect, what would Einhart say if someone asked her whether or not Olivie was right to make her sacrifice?

2013-03-30, 23:39	Link #2876
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	I'll need to check my sources again. It's been a while and the Bureau being around then was something someone on this forum informed me of. __________________

2013-03-30, 23:45	Link #2877
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	That's probably a typo. Or Tsuzuki retroactively realizing 60 years is a bit too little.

2013-03-31, 00:07	Link #2878
Lhklan The Unpronounceable Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Clock Tower	According to THIS page: http://nanoha.wikia.com/wiki/Chronology The Unification War ended approximately 20 years before Modern Calendar year 0001.

2013-03-31, 00:10	Link #2879
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Well that is odd because at times they say this is ancient history like several hundred years, and it even look ancient with castles, horses and all that, but this was just 100 years ago? They do work fast to fix everything so easily. And yet this was "Ancient Belka" history. __________________