Statistical rise of lolicon popularity outside Japan

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by BOOKGLUTTON

So, I then suggest that you never in your entire life visit 4chan...period.

Oh, been there..... in order to have a legitimate opinion, one has to view the data. I will say that the bathroom walls of my alma mater often had better art skills in some cases. However, the usual 90%==dreck rule applies which means that if you can stand it, there's some lovely and tasteful gems amongst the general crap.

[BOOKGLUTTON]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Oh, been there..... in order to have a legitimate opinion, one has to view the data. I will say that the bathroom walls of my alma mater often had better art skills in some cases. However, the usual 90%==dreck rule applies which means that if you can stand it, there's some lovely and tasteful gems amongst the general crap.

Or just rule 34'd yotsuba hidden by spoilers to make you want to die.

[mg1942]

Yep, there's some good stuff, but they say you gotta lurk moar (hate it when they say that).


I used to go to /n/ (old n) for news 'n lulz, but ended up attracting too much "stormfags", klans, and Ron Paul revolutionaries. Too bad they closed "that pool" right around the US primaries.

[Issac]

Originally Posted by Razer_2mb

It's not like most pedophiles are dangerous. Hell, only 5% of child molestation crimes are committed by actual pedophiles.

Please don't take this the wrong way, as I'm not trying to argue you. I'm just curious and would like to see. Do you have a source on that?

[einhorn303]

Originally Posted by Issac

Please don't take this the wrong way, as I'm not trying to argue you. I'm just curious and would like to see. Do you have a source on that?

"About 90 percent [of child molesters] are so-called "situational child molesters" who capitalize on opportunities to molest children but don't necessarily prefer sex with children ... The 10 percent of child molesters who make up the second category are the bona fide "pedophiles," those who genuinely favor sex with children." --Kenneth Lanning (2001). "Profile of a Pedophile," 2001 interview by the Valley Advocate's JoAnn DiLorenzo with Lanning

"More important, sexual contact with a child does not a pedophile make. 'The majority of reported acts of sexual abuse of children are not committed by pedophiles,' but by men in relationships with adult women and men, said John Money, of Johns Hopkins, a preeminent expert on sexual abnormalities." - Harmful to Minors, Judith Levine, pg 25-26

"At any rate, reliable sources show that more than half, and some say almost all, of sexual abuse is visited upon children by their own family members or parental substitutes." - Harmful to Minors, Judith Levine, pg 28

Btw, I deeply recommend "Harmful to Minors"...it's a fascinating book and probably the most controversial yet well-researched of 2002. There's only three or so copies left on amazon.com, though, last I checked.

[Issac]

Originally Posted by einhorn303

"About 90 percent [of child molesters] are so-called "situational child molesters" who capitalize on opportunities to molest children but don't necessarily prefer sex with children ... The 10 percent of child molesters who make up the second category are the bona fide "pedophiles," those who genuinely favor sex with children." --Kenneth Lanning (2001). "Profile of a Pedophile," 2001 interview by the Valley Advocate's JoAnn DiLorenzo with Lanning

It's funny how we define children these days. When I was 15 I was by no means innocent, hell, at 13 I was by no means innocent. I mean, I was pretty damn sure I liked boobies at that stage in life. It isn't much different for girls, I would assume.

There are lines, yeah, and I guess that's mostly controlled by mass opinion.

But to label someone, 22 or so, with a beastly title as "child molester" for seizing the day for a 17-year old girl who clearly knows what she wants, I think, is pushing it a bit.

Thanks for the source, though, that's interesting stuff.

[Vexx]

Calling that sort of incident "child molesting" is not "pushing it a bit" .. .its complete witchburning lunacy. Amping up the statistics to make the situation seem dire (rather like defining anyone under the age of 25 a "child" for purposes of including a mass of gang-related shootings under the category of "child shootings").

Always view people who make money, achieve power, or get attention by waving "alarm flags" and shouting "think of the children" with suspicion.

I'm still flabbergasted over two Floridians being convicted on child porn charges for over-sharing nekkid pics of themselves on their cellphones when they were under-age in that state. Stupid? yes. Registered sex offenders for the rest of their lives? Entirely bullshit. But the prosecutor there crowed about it as he grows his "image".

Interesting references from einhorn303, I vaguely remember the Levine book - will try to find a copy to see if its the one I remember.

[einhorn303]

Originally Posted by Issac

But to label someone, 22 or so, with a beastly title as "child molester" for seizing the day for a 17-year old girl who clearly knows what she wants, I think, is pushing it a bit.

Originally Posted by Vexx

Always view people who make money, achieve power, or get attention by waving "alarm flags" and shouting "think of the children" with suspicion.

The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation. - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

[HayashiTakara]

mmmm loli's.. wait did I just say that?

ahem, anyway... as long as people don't associate anime loli's to real life kids, I say its ok. Me personally can never correlate it. I just don't see it in real life.

[Utau]

been following this thread since the other day.. interesting.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

as long as people don't associate anime loli's to real life kids, I say its ok. Me personally can never correlate it. I just don't see it in real life.

I agree with you here. Anime-loli's and RL-loli's are just two different things. I can see *ahem* myself looking at anime drawn but never did i once thought of going to that.

[Eggs in a Bottle]

Back in the day, people used child porn pictures instead of stuff like goatse as shockers.

Now that stuff is rough, like real rough.

It's much worse than any of the modern Rotten pictures, goatse, tubgirl, 2girls1cup etc...

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Utau

been following this thread since the other day.. interesting.




I agree with you here. Anime-loli's and RL-loli's are just two different things. I can see *ahem* myself looking at anime drawn but never did i once thought of going to that.

Excellent point - even if we're considering child-loli drawings, manga, or anime: they're completely manufactured fantasies. Distinctly unrelated to the real children in behavior - a few days volunteering in any school or youth center should clear that up.
Noisy, grimy, germ-infested, cruel, and obnoxious little ....

[OutPhase]

Originally Posted by Issac

Please don't take this the wrong way, as I'm not trying to argue you. I'm just curious and would like to see. Do you have a source on that?

Here. Found it at long last. Glad I saved it from another forum I go to:

Not only are pedophiles unlikely to rape children (in the same way heterosexual males are unlikely to rape women), but statistical evidence has shown that nonpedophiles are more than twice as likely to molest children than pedophiles are.

Don't believe me? I don't blame you. Here are the statistics.

FBI sex offender expert Kenneth Lanning stated in a 2001 interview that "About 90 percent [of child molesters] are so-called "situational child molesters" who capitalize on opportunities to molest children but don't necessarily prefer sex with children ... The 10 percent of child molesters who make up the second category are the bona fide "pedophiles," those who genuinely favor sex with children."

Here's the link to the interview:
http://web.archive.org/web/200306210...pedophile.html

Lanning's figure is supported by various sources. Here is another source citing similar figures:
http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/..._sex_offenders

Studies of adult arousability has shown that pedophiles make up as much as 20-33% of the adult male population. 20% is the lowest number I've seen, but I haven't seen the actual study purporting this number. I have seen, and can link to the study purporting the 33% figure.

http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library...8_article.html

For those uninterested in reading the whole article, it was done using a number of volunteers, and measuring their arousal using a device attached to the penis as they were shown different materials. While 85% showed some arousal to pedophilic stimuli, in 33% of their test subjects, the arousal equaled or exceeded the arousal to adult stimuli.

Taking the conservative numbers together, the math works out as follows:

Pedophile molesters 10% < 90% Nonpedophile molesters

Pedophiles 20% < 80% Nonpedophiles

10/20 is then the proportion of pedophile molesters to pedophiles relative to the figure 90/80 that represents nonpedophile molesters to nonpedophiles

10/20 = .5 < 1.125 = 90/80

The proportion thus is 1 to 2.25, making a given nonpedophile more than twice as likely to molest a child as a given pedophile.

Okay, I was a off by my estimate. One out of ten is still a large ratio and I have been look through my folders forever to find it meaning that I haven't read it in almost a year, so sue me.

[AceD]

Originally Posted by Utau

I agree with you here. Anime-loli's and RL-loli's are just two different things. I can see *ahem* myself looking at anime drawn but never did i once thought of going to that.

ofc anime lolis and real life kids are 2 different things, however there lies the problem...alot of people dont think like this

Kodomo no Jikan is the peados anime of choice.

a prime of example would be this thread, people who compare anime girls to real girls and find them *hot*

[HayashiTakara]

The problem with the term "loli" in anime is that its used to describe a character's physical feature and not their age.

A good example is Moe-chan, that loli magic girl show... where the 3 main girls are 3rd year Senior High Students but don't look it..

My brain seperates reality and fiction. I don't walk the street and say, "hey that looks like insert name from anime show", Even cosplayers, I find it hard to associate... I can see a nice costume if its made of quality material, but I won't see an anime character... If its a hot chick its even better... but thats the testosterone talking.

If you look at the real world as a set of color palettes and the other fictional world their own color palettes it makes it easier to seperate... Imagine a character with a highly desaturated color with sketchy out line, suddenly walking around in a cleanly drawn, vibrant colored anime... that'll feel extremely awkward right?

[SeedFreedom]

i find myself pleasantly surprised by how much this thread reminds me of the Lolita thread a whiles back, yet i have a totally different opinion on this.

First off, how is this in any way hurting anyone? They are drawing, not real. No children are getting harmed. And i don't for one second believe the slippery slope theory that this will lead to more child molesters. There is no evidence of that, and anyone claiming that is just trying to push their own views and opinions onto others. Once again, while the rest of the world is moving liberal, the states move conservative.

[Utau]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Noisy, grimy, germ-infested, cruel, and obnoxious little ....

you are well informed. My sentiments exactly.
that somehow reminds me of this anime with a pedo teacher who were taking a picture of kindergarten kids out playing and his camera got ruined when the kids run up to him.. forgot it's title tho.

Originally Posted by Voracious Hollow

ofc anime lolis and real life kids are 2 different things, however there lies the problem...alot of people dont think like this

Kodomo no Jikan is the peados anime of choice.

a prime of example would be this thread, people who compare anime girls to real girls and find them *hot*

True, there are people who compare anime girls to real-life girls and say it's very attractive or hot, you can find them here and there even before. Though, i wouldn't blame them.. seeing a real person that looks identical or share the same characteristics as their admired anime character be it loli or non-loli mentally satisfy them.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

My brain seperates reality and fiction. I don't walk the street and say, "hey that looks like insert name from anime show", Even cosplayers, I find it hard to associate... I can see a nice costume if its made of quality material, but I won't see an anime character... If its a hot chick its even better... but thats the testosterone talking.

back when i was in my 4th yr. high as a student. I had a couple of comrades there some of them have experience of attending a cosplay show held in our country, three of us went to buy lunch then one suddenly said "hey, hey, don't you think that girl looks like Rin from InuYasha? and the other one is forgotname *from the anime teni puri* they look cute.." me and my other friend laughed at him and asked how can he say that when both of their hairs are pulled down with only beads as an accessory, what's worse is that the one he pointed that looked like Rin was a grade 5 student.


Okay.. that was irrelevant

[Urzu 7]

Originally Posted by Voracious Hollow

ofc anime lolis and real life kids are 2 different things, however there lies the problem...alot of people dont think like this

Originally Posted by SeedFreedom

First off, how is this in any way hurting anyone? They are drawing, not real. No children are getting harmed. And i don't for one second believe the slippery slope theory that this will lead to more child molesters. There is no evidence of that, and anyone claiming that is just trying to push their own views and opinions onto others.

Okay, after hearing many people on the issue, I can see that many people keep the appeal to just fiction and it doesn't cross over to real life. Good. However, for people to think it could cross over into real life; for people to think it could become a slippery slope...can you blame them? Seriously, for those pro-loli, I can hear what you are saying on the issue. But can you blame people for perceiving it this way? I can't. Even if most people who like lolicon and shotacon don't have this fetish cross over into real life, I can easily understand how people would conclude that this would happen.

And I don't want anybody to get defensive over that. I really think it is understandable people would think of this as becoming a slippery slope.

[Vexx]

Actually... yeah, I can "blame them" because they're letting emotion and irrationalism win out over logic and critical thinking skills. They're letting mob-think and manipulation by people with underlying agendas herd them into those opinions.

So while I *understand* what they're thinking - I don't really have any sympathy for it.

[AceD]

o my...seems my jab at Kodomo no Jikan insulted someone so they left a rant on my rep !

sorry if i insulted your molesting instincts friend

i actually cant understand why i male would wanna watch lolicon, unless your into young girls -_-, is a genre for girls really