Madoka Magica - General Discussion

[BaKaBaKaOtaKu]

it won't be long till madoka beats clannad: AS.

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by HitoriTomoyo

Not sure if this is the correct place but out of curiousity:

i)What were the initial speculations on here surrounding Walpurgistnacht's origins?
ii)Will Kazumi Magica/Oriko Magica ever delve into Walpurgisnacht's origins?

Watching the last two episodes really bugged me given that we're watching Homura battle the final boss and we still know practically nothing about it. Given how insightful and intellectual the debates/speculations have been on Animesuki throughout Madoka's broadcast, I think any perspectives would be helpful in shedding light on the enigmatic final boss.

I know I should skim through past pages for a look-see but I'm just wondering if any speculations/facts have changed since Madoka concluded.

There was a good bit of discussion on Walpurgistnacht in Homura's thread, actually due the the theory of it being her witch, though the end most people seemed to agree with is that is was a massive collection of witches formed together.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Ending in a vague way that is open to interpetation may just be the author becoming lazy and leaving everything as a blur, just like his thoughts, as red herring to his inability to bring a clear closure.

I would mention why the Code Geass finale is a retarded piece of poop but it would get too off-topic. Bottom line, a vague ending is not a good ending. Just something that deliberately leaves the reader / viewer to give the answer.

As for the Madoka ranking, she is as I write this post #8 in anidb. But that means very little since we all know anime drop after awhile. We can see its more objective place after a year or more has passed.

Vague endings keep the fans talking and the fandom alive. It is a way to keep the series alive without the need of endless sequels. Just look at the end of Digimon season 2, the ending was WAY too conclusive and left no room for the fans to imagine more story to it. Of course this could just be me and my T.KxKairi vein talking.

Rankings don't change unless better anime series in the future appear like this one. Another way is if people who have ranked it already actually bothered to change it later which is highly unlikely.

[BaKaBaKaOtaKu]

some people just can't accept madoka's epicness. =)

[matteas]

Originally Posted by omimon

Rankings don't change unless better anime series in the future appear like this one. Another way is if people who have ranked it already actually bothered to change it later which is highly unlikely.

The ratings usually drop a bit after a while. It's due to the fact that more people, those who didn't follow it while it was airing, watch it and they often pull the rating down a little bit. Some series, though, have kept their high ratings, for example Clannad After Story, Aria the Origination, and Nodame Cantabile.

Madoka was on the third rank at one moment, having the rating of 9.23, but as more people finish it, it goes down a bit. It makes sense, as those who were very enthusiastic about it watched it right away after its broadcast or once the subs were out. Those with less interest in it weren't eager to watch it as soon as possible, so their ratings, which came later, have made Madoka drop a bit.

[Snork]

Likewise, "What is the exact nature of Madoka post-wish Timeline 5?"

It would be Timeline 6 already, I think. The only presumable glimpse we had at Timeline 5 after Madoka's wish is Kamijou's concert. One might think that whether this timeline is negated or not, Madoka has no problems accessing it as an outside viewer (since her wish featured inflitrating all timelines, previously negated ones included).

I really like all these debates (as said above, they are the signs of people's interest in the show and that they're NOT forgetting it a season after the broadcast). Even though we can only make guesses unless/until some new info is provided by oficial sourses, it's fun.
For now, I'll sum up my points mentioned in previous posts and based on my [current] understanding of the plot. Further debates welcomed at will, but I should emphasize that I don't mean this POV to be accepted unanimously as the gospel truth. Claiming the power of IMHO here.
- Why don't I think Madoka is a real god? I don't see her deliberately pulling off anything god-like outside of her wish-based competence. We ascribe god-like omnipotence to her, based on the things she actually did, but these are exactly the things one might NOT need to bother with if possessing powers to reshape the universe. Who cares about erasing witches if you can erase the Puella Magi system and rewrite history in a way that lets humanity prosper without the influence of wishes made? Who cares about giving Incubators an alternative sourse of energy if you can rewrite universal laws and create the world without enthropy issues? Who cares about the need to fight demons if you can rewrite the human nature, negate all distortions, destroy all grief in the world and... oops, I think we've run into Kriemhild Gretchen from another angle. It's probably a good thing that Madoka did not wish to be a god and take such huge matters into her hands.
On the other hand, I don't find any reason to object to her seeming god-like. She brings hope and salvation to other magical girls - in this aspect, all religious allegories and symbolism Shaft throws at us look justified. A real god or not, a deity is probably what she would seem AND mean to every magical girl she appears in friont of during the latter's final moments. Point driven home nicely.
- Why don't I think she disappeared completely and become a concept? Because there seems to be more to it. Concepts don't talk back, lol. If Madoka did erase herself completely, the whole cosmic yuri scene afterwards might not have happened. Again, the only interpretor we have at hand is Kyuubey, and he can only guess so much about the deeper mechanisms of the force he admitted he didn't fully comprehend. His claims that there will be no memory of Madoka left, for instance, prove true for the most part, but... Tatsuya, anyone?

Again, these points are pure IMHO and may be subject to change if more information is revealed by Madoka Quartet.

The drama CD is quite interesting. So the black cat was initially behind Madoka becoming a magical girl in the first place? Even if it is admittedly retconned by Urobuchi...

i)What were the initial speculations on here surrounding Walpurgistnacht's origins?
ii)Will Kazumi Magica/Oriko Magica ever delve into Walpurgisnacht's origins?

WN initially? "Hey, look, doesn't her shape look like Sayaka's cape? Maybe it's actually Sayaka!" XDDDDDD
Another random WMG actually included WN being a witch form of Kazumi, but that was based on the "Innocent Malice" title, way before this headscratcher's release.
I didn't look much into the outlines of magical girls shown in the last frame of episode 12, but at first glance, nobody seems to be shaped distinctly like anyone from the Pleiade Saints. At least if Kazumi herself was there, her hat would stand out.
Sigh, I want chapter 4. Even if I'm too careful as to expect it to clarify anything.

Watching the last two episodes really bugged me given that we're watching Homura battle the final boss and we still know practically nothing about it.

Well, I believe we may get a profile card soon.

[roriconfan]

Originally Posted by omimon

Rankings don't change unless better anime series in the future appear like this one. Another way is if people who have ranked it already actually bothered to change it later which is highly unlikely.

Better??? How about simply newer? And if half the voters would bother to readjust their scores, most anime would be around 5.

Originally Posted by matteas

The ratings usually drop a bit after a while. It's due to the fact that more people, those who didn't follow it while it was airing, watch it and they often pull the rating down a little bit. Some series, though, have kept their high ratings, for example Clannad After Story, Aria the Origination, and Nodame Cantabile.

And LoGH is top 3 since 1988.

Sorry folks, anime only go downwards after the first week they finish. This is the peak Madoka could achieve and I suspect it will drop to #50 in a few months.

[MaiNoKen]

Originally Posted by matteas

The ratings usually drop a bit after a while. It's due to the fact that more people, those who didn't follow it while it was airing, watch it and they often pull the rating down a little bit. Some series, though, have kept their high ratings, for example Clannad After Story, Aria the Origination, and Nodame Cantabile.

Madoka was on the third rank at one moment, having the rating of 9.23, but as more people finish it, it goes down a bit. It makes sense, as those who were very enthusiastic about it watched it right away after its broadcast or once the subs were out. Those with less interest in it weren't eager to watch it as soon as possible, so their ratings, which came later, have made Madoka drop a bit.

Anyway, it is just an Internet ranking. While I can say enthusiastic fans probably will rank the series close to perfect score, it does not mean future watchers would do not like it .

If there is one things, being-known-about in North America and Europe begins with official DVD release.

[Snork]

alas, I agree. With the squall of rankings every show is given, especially the most hyped ones, keeping MAL positions is a tough job. It's like with singles - while how long they stay in the charts is also calculated, their main merit is usually the highest rank in the charts, not the final one which is bound to decrease (unless something like a new edition/popular OST use/creator's untimely death adds some hype again).

[omimon]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Better??? How about simply newer? And if half the voters would bother to readjust their scores, most anime would be around 5.

And LoGH is top 3 since 1988.

Sorry folks, anime only go downwards after the first week they finish. This is the peak Madoka could achieve and I suspect it will drop to #50 in a few months.

Sorry to break this to you but the internet wasn't mass-used yet in 1988.

Alas rankings don't mean anything if sales are bad. Anime is a product and studios are companies. A lot of people pointed their fingers at Bake and it just shat gold bricks right in their faces. The pre-orders for Madoka is on the verge of god-like (no pun intended) and could easily surpass Bake. Shaft is laughing all the way to the bank for a second time it seems.

[Shadow5YA]

The drama CD explains why the cat never appeared in the show! Because Madoka originally used her wish to save the black cat, and Homura stopped her from making an early wish, the cat died and was forgotten.

[MaiNoKen]

Originally Posted by omimon

Sorry to break this to you but the internet wasn't mass-used yet in 1988.

Alas rankings don't mean anything if sales are bad. Anime is a product and studios are companies. A lot of people pointed their fingers at Bake and it just shat gold bricks right in their faces. The pre-orders for Madoka is on the verge of god-like (no pun intended) and could easily surpass Bake. Shaft is laughing all the way to the bank for a second time it seems.

Pre-orders of Madoka BDs have shattered Bakemonogatari records, and are currently at all-time records. Of course, technology and availability of BD players probably play a role in the numbers. No one knows where the number will stand in comparison with future figures unless we have Homura Akemi time warping from the future .

To a poster that I will not name: While there are some universality in the definition of quality, individual perception to different creative work is clearly influenced by individual taste. That difference of taste has to be respected. The respect includes not putting down others to make sure your own preferred taste to look good. Critical opinions and analysis are helpful, but over-criticism with the motivation of trashing are unhelpful. However, I tolerate trolling for the sake of being funny haha ;p.

Sorry if this come out as somewhat a rant in how people talk in the Internet . I will shut up here .

[Riga92]

Found some images comparing the BD version of episodes 1 and 2 with TV version






Mami's room got a total makeover

I seriously want to buy these BD's now...

[applejuice]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

The drama CD explains why the cat never appeared in the show! Because Madoka originally used her wish to save the black cat, and Homura stopped her from making an early wish, the cat died and was forgotten.

Cat is still MacGuffin in sense that Urobuchi never had it for his original storyboard.

Originally Posted by Riga92

Found some images comparing the BD version of episodes 1 and 2 with TV version






Mami's room got a total makeover

Shaft on fire.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Riga92

Found some images comparing the BD version of episodes 1 and 2 with TV version






Mami's room got a total makeover

It was lookin' a little lonely there.

[ThereminVox]

Originally Posted by Riga92

Mami's room got a total makeover

lolSHAFT.

I thought the empty room said a lot about her. I'm completely fine that they decided to muck with it to make it fit what they wanted, but it kinda alters the early foreshadowing of Mami's lonely life as a mahou shojou.

Maybe they want her to seem more happy and fulfilled early on so that her confession of loneliness to Madoka in episode 3 comes as more of a surprise.

[MaiNoKen]

Originally Posted by ThereminVox

lolSHAFT.

I thought the empty room said a lot about her. I'm completely fine that they decided to muck with it to make it fit what they wanted, but it kinda alters the early foreshadowing of Mami's lonely life as a mahou shojou.

Maybe they want her to seem more happy and fulfilled early on so that her confession of loneliness to Madoka in episode 3 comes as more of a surprise.

The changes are far more than I would expect O_O!?

[Shadow5YA]

SHAFT is being SHAFT and adding more to the background for the sake of being fancy. Just look at Madoka's school and her home.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by ThereminVox

lolSHAFT.

I thought the empty room said a lot about her. I'm completely fine that they decided to muck with it to make it fit what they wanted, but it kinda alters the early foreshadowing of Mami's lonely life as a mahou shojou.

Maybe they want her to seem more happy and fulfilled early on so that her confession of loneliness to Madoka in episode 3 comes as more of a surprise.

I like to think that after her parents death she inherited a ton of money but jsut used to by stuff. Which would symbolize Mami trying to feel an empty void of loneliness with a fancy decor when in reality it all means nothing to her...of course I could just be thinking to hard about this...

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

I like to think that after her parents death she inherited a ton of money but jsut used to by stuff. Which would symbolize Mami trying to feel an empty void of loneliness with a fancy decor when in reality it all means nothing to her...of course I could just be thinking to hard about this...

Thinking too hard? Most certainly. But it still makes sense all the same.