True Tears - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Khaos]

Originally Posted by Stretch5920

they are just dragging it out now with the typical dumbass male who takes 2 episodes to realise something. Last ep "I'm gonna do things properly" This ep "lol just kidding"

I'd say 2 episodes is pretty good, there are series where it takes the male dozens of episodes to realize it.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by Stretch5920

they are just dragging it out now with the typical dumbass male who takes 2 episodes to realise something. Last ep "I'm gonna do things properly" This ep "lol just kidding"

Honestly I don't really know what you expected. Shin to just walk up to Noe and be like "We're done.", and then grab Hiromi and have a night on the town?

As it was, Shin spent most of the episode making the picture book and thinking about what Noe meant to him and presumably how he was going to let her off. That's what the whole Jibeta ending "first take" meant to me; that he was going to let Noe go with that kind of ending for her. He changes his mind though and goes to see her and then he realizes exactly what has happened to her.

He couldn't have known that falling in love would drive Noe to such an extreme state, but now that it has, he has to deal with it. Either way he probably already resolved it in some sense by changing the ending to the storybook.

Also, he saw Hiromi twice with Jun in this episode, so I think he's just sort of coming to realize that he can trust her feelings for him. Of course, we don't really get a view on this from the episode so that might be too much to assume...

It's a drama that's trying to resolve itself out in a coming of age type setting, where the characters are trying to find who they really are and where they're going; the resolution was set up to be at this pace.

[arkxkra]

Spoiler for :

good episode. Hiromi is so worry after see the drawing, here I think misunderstand is grow up again, then Shin have misunderstand Hiromi and Jun again? hopefully will be ntg, 2 more episode to go, i hope everything run smoothly.

Aiko become friend with Nobuse again, start as friend again. This is unexpected for me.

looking forward to next episode. Jun want to kiss who, don't tell me... o.O"?

This anime going to end soon ....

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Originally Posted by vio5555

Shin is acting how we "would" expect him to act. You're dogmatically forcing your own view of how you think he "should" behave versus a more objective take on how he should act within the construct of his character traits as described in eps 1-10.

I honestly expected him to act exactly as he did taking into account who he is. He was thinking about Noe before, he was taken aback by the event, and it caused him to re-evaluate things. We haven't really been given a total window into his mind with respect to Hiromi, so we're left to somewhat extrapolate how he thinks of seeing her walk away from Jun for example.

You said what you think he should do, but can you honestly say that you'd expect the Shin that we've seen fleshed out in eps 1-10 taking a chick back to her place and running the bases?

The writers decided to opt for a slow winding resolution that centers on two things; the storybook and the dance. Those two events are being moved towards with a very solid pacing reminiscient of real life (with respect to relationships), which is probably what has won this series a lot of discussion alongside with its fleshed out characters.

The writers have set Noe up for this moment. She never knew how to deal with her emotions of love for Shin from the getgo and has had to deal with largely being a secondary focus for Shin while his heart has been far more focused on Hiromi.

It's a travesty that you're seeing what is undoubtably some top-notch drama and viewing it in such a biased light. While I won't deny that True Tears has its flaws most noticeably with respect to the handling and treatment of Shin's mom, your particular unhappiness with the show has more to do with where you think it should go from your own experiences rather than where it should go from the expectations the anime itself has created.

NO. NO. NO. More NO.

He said he would do things properly. So we expect him to do things properly. If he isn't going to do things properly and if he is just going to keep moving in the reverse direction then they shouldn't have had episode 10. Episode 11 just makes episode 10 look like a filler or a delay tactic which is probably what it is.

They are trying to fill up episodes because they couldn't find or think of anymore content. More than half of episode 10 and 11 had nothing but scenes that doesn't contribute anything to the story. It's the same old thing that we saw over and over from the past episodes.

Of course we expect Shin to be a man, move forward and do what men do in animes- fix confusing situations and love triangle. This is what anime shows are. Even if the anime shows the main character as weak, unsure, unconfident, etc, they get a moment of realization and then boom- they are now Mr. Fix It. We received that show already where he realizes things and even promised to do things properly.

But did he fix anything? Of course not. The writers couldn't come up with enough story so they created episodes like these to delay or fill things up. This episode is like an announcement - "We ran out of ideas so Mr. Fix It won't come out till episode 12 but rest assured he will fix the Noe situation, the Jun situation and carry off Hiromi to the sunset and live happily ever after starting episode 12 of course".

So to summarize- Shin is not acting the way we would expect him to act or should act. It is not because it is his character traits, and character development but it is because the writers need 1-2 more episodes of things that has nothing to do with the story so that they can reach the goal of 13 episodes.

[Sorrow-K]

No more shipping. Seriously, it's stupid.

You know what would be an interesting ending: Shinichiro ending up with no one. Instead, Shinichiro decides that he has a lot of growing up to do yet, and that's he's not mature enough to take on a serious relationship and comes to the conclusion that he'll only hurt whichever girl he ends up with in the long run. Now that would be a unique ending. How many harems end like that?

Actually, you know what I want to see in an ending: something that's smart and surprising. Something that we can't predict or can be summed up by two names separated by an "X". Like "JunXNobuse" or "Shin'sMomXShin'sDad".

---

This episode meandered a bit. I think I rather agree with TinyRedLeaf in that it's in great danger of losing momentum, with a few episodes to go. The Noe stuff right now kinda resembles the Aiko stuff later on, in that Aiko was never a serious contender, but she was put in to the mix to generate more conflict and angst. Anyway, I'm rather satisfied with how they resolved the Nobuse/Aiko subplot, but that was kinda it... satisfactory. It didn't exactly blow me away or rip my heart out or anything like that. The Noe stuff in this episode was interesting, but not from the romantic angle, which feels so contrived to me, as if it's there only to keep things interesting for the next couple of episodes. There are a couple of directions they can take it in, and I hope it'd end up being something slightly more than Shinichiro somehow convincing Noe that life is worth living exactly as it's been up til now if she continues to love him, which would be about the most trite thing possible they could do with the situation. But there seems to be this concept of risk and loss at the heart of all of this and being grounded through loss, as Noe has been twice, once when she lost her grandmother, and again when she lost Shinichiro's love. Again, I'll be interested to see what they make of this, but I'd hope it'd be a little more substantial than "nothing".

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Speaking about the book, personally, I feel it's written terribly. It's certainly in need of thorough editing. I hope Shinichiro doesn't keep the current ending. The story about Raigomaru and Jibeta starts out as a story about a chicken that wants to fly, but goes off-tanget, and it becomes a story about a deluded chicken that kills itself while trying to achieve an impossible dream. Hmm, it's "original" I suppose, but a cynical ending doesn't fit a fairy tale picture-book very well, I feel.

And I thought I was a tough critic. You know, the book is interesting in itself, and I spent a lot of this episode trying to figure out if Jibeta in the book was a symbol for Shinichiro or a symbol for Noe, or some sort of mix of the two. There's a suggestion in the picture book that an impossible risk for the sake of something ephemeral and/or intangible will inevitably lead to a downfall, which mirrors Noe's state at the moment, but there were these occasional parallels between Jibeta's actions in the book and Shinichiro's actions (making a ruckus, standing on a cliff, etc, etc), and Shinichiro certainly hasn't made up his mind on the bad end... in fact, I'd say it's almost certain he won't go for the bad end. Which kinda implies that there's some sort of light at the end of the tunnel for Noe yet... some sort of light that almost demands a defiance of the logical (since a similar ending in the book will also demand some defiance of the logical). Maybe this will be Noe's lesson... that she needs to show at least some respect to society's rationale. Or maybe it'll be the complete opposite, and she'll learn that in order to be truly free, she needs to completely abandon anything resembling logic. Which might land her in a nervous hospital or something (some people call it a nut-house, I call it a nervous hospital, uh huh). Who knows how they'll twist this.

Anyway, I love the symbolic undertones that permeate this story... I just wish the more palpable romantic aspects were as good. They're not. Not for me, anyway. I guess I'm just uncomfortable with the idea of Shinichiro being a romantic creature. He's such a jerk...

[DragoonKain3]

I personally won't be outraged if ShinXNoe came together in the end, unlike a certain other series I'm very vocal about. Even with the recent episode's plenty of helping of ShinXHiromi scenes, I still see clues that makes me uneasy as Hiromi is in this episode. Now if Aiko somehow manages to win, that's another story altogether... (Sorry Ai fans, but its the truth)


And I really do feel that people are so used to anime ending once a couple is 'obvious' that they feel it gets draggy if the series goes on after that.

From my perspective, this episode's focus isn't on Shin following up on his words from the previous episode, but Hiromi REALLY ending things on her side. I mean, take a look at the episode title. Every episode has its main focus on who said the title, and this is really no different. Hiromi was the focus of 'Busybody Guys are Fools' and 'City where no snow is falling', and it's her turn to shine in this episode as well. (And she certainly did, telling Jun off like that) So really, I didn't expect Shin to end things on his side this episode as it isn't Noe's or his episode yet. That will be next episode or the last, respectively.

So yeah, I really don't think this episode is filler at all. While it's true that Shin has gone nowhere in this episode, Hiromi predictably did her part first. I've said it before, but if the show is going to a Hiromi ending, both ShinXNoe and HiromiXJun needs to find a resolution before that occurs. It just so happens that they opted to do Hiromi's before Shin's. I mean, where will the drama go if it was Shin who broke up with Noe first, since Hiromi and Jun obviously aren't that interested in each other?


Oh yeah, another thing I'm a bit disappointed in. Jun isn't as sinister as I thought he would be. And here I was hoping for the next Ikari Gendo...

And another thing that raised my eyebrows... Hiromi has a freaking big screen TV? Note that she didn't have one in her old room before, so I doubt it existed before.


@thundrakkon
As someone who wears contacts, I put them on first thing in the morning and take them out last thing at night. Trust me, it's not fun putting contacts on when you're in a hurry, so that's why I do it before everything else. And last thing at night as it helps with reading and using the comp before bed time. So assuming what I do is typical of someone who wears contacts, then it's unlikely that Hiromi does wear them. Then again, I'm not like most people.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy

NO. NO. NO. More NO.
Of course we expect Shin to be a man, move forward and do what men do in animes- fix confusing situations and love triangle. This is what anime shows are. Even if the anime shows the main character as weak, unsure, unconfident, etc, they get a moment of realization and then boom- they are now Mr. Fix It. We received that show already where he realizes things and even promised to do things properly.

But did he fix anything? Of course not. The writers couldn't come up with enough story so they created episodes like these to delay or fill things up. This episode is like an announcement - "We ran out of ideas so Mr. Fix It won't come out till episode 12 but rest assured he will fix the Noe situation, the Jun situation and carry off Hiromi to the sunset and live happily ever after starting episode 12 of course".

So to summarize- Shin is not acting the way we would expect him to act or should act. It is not because it is his character traits, and character development but it is because the writers need 1-2 more episodes of things that has nothing to do with the story so that they can reach the goal of 13 episodes.

Give the writers some credit. True Tears has not been the "typical" anime that you are used to. It has elements of realism or real life, where characters behave in a more complex way, as if in real life scenario. Yes, Shin said some things in the last episode, but now comes the hard part: "How exactly is he supposed to do that without hurting anyone and satisfying everyone?" That is what he is trying to come to terms with right now, and what he needs to figure out.

Some times, you say more than what you can actually do, and he's trying to find a way to fix that right now. It takes time.

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

@thundrakkon
As someone who wears contacts, I put them on first thing in the morning and take them out last thing at night. Trust me, it's not fun putting contacts on when you're in a hurry, so that's why I do it before everything else. And last thing at night as it helps with reading and using the comp before bed time. So assuming what I do is typical of someone who wears contacts, then it's unlikely that Hiromi does wear them. Then again, I'm not like most people.

I also wear contacts as well, but usually glasses most of the time. It is just more comfortable and less eye strain than contacts. Furthermore, whenever I want to play basketball, it takes me less than 5 minutes to put the contacts on. Hiromi can put on her contacts in the locker room after/before she changes quite easily.

[Sinestra]

Is anyone else actually looking forward to finally seeing Shins dance? Its been made into such a big deal that my finally had time to catch up with the actual importance of the dance to the plot at hand. We get a glimpse of it in the OP but i want to see it up close.

[Ascaloth]

Watched Episode 11.

I was like....wuuuut. Throughout the entire episode, I couldn't help thinking about Episode 9's 'poof'-fest. It almost felt as if the writers are struggling to rebuild the momentum they had, right until the point where they threw it all away 2 weeks ago.

So, when Shinichiro realized Hiromi's available, he dropped Noe like a hot potato and went for the former almost immediately. But once he's got Hiromi almost in his grasp, he can't stop thinking about Noe. In short, Shinichiro is one of those much-hated indecisive, spineless male leads who can't seem to come to a decision to anything when it comes to choosing between girls, and hurts everyone else in the process.

His one saving grace? At least even Shinichiro knows that himself. And somewhat like Nobuse, it's taking him a fair bit of time to build up the guts to resolve the situation, but it seems like he's finally starting to do so. If he can see it through like Nobuse did, he may still not be one of my favourite characters, but at least he'll be respectable.

In any case, it's still a case of anything-can-happen-at-this point, but I do agree that it's going to take either some inspired writing or a total trainwreck to turn the current ShinXHiromi tide into a ShinXNoe one.

It's kinda sad, but I can no longer retain the same level of enthusiasm for a True Tears episode that I did just several weeks ago. That's how low the momentum has dropped; it may suit the story, but I'd learned in a Theatre Studies module that keeping the interest of the audience is just as important as telling the story itself, if not even more so.

7/10. Blog article will have to wait for tomorrow.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

It's kinda sad, but I can no longer retain the same level of enthusiasm for a True Tears episode that I did just several weeks ago. That's how low the momentum has dropped; it may suit the story, but I'd learned in a Theatre Studies module that keeping the interest of the audience is just as important as telling the story itself, if not even more so.

7/10. Blog article will have to wait for tomorrow.

I can sympathize with you. That is how I felt after watching episode 11.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Is anyone else actually looking forward to finally seeing Shins dance? Its been made into such a big deal that my finally had time to catch up with the actual importance of the dance to the plot at hand. We get a glimpse of it in the OP but i want to see it up close.

I wonder how he is going to react if all 3 girls turn up to watch him dance. He doesn't know that Ai and Nobu have made their peace so that might be a jab, next the right hook from Noe in regards to the unresolved chicken tale/relationship. Finally the upper cut from Hiromi all dolled up in her kimono... I'd be amazed if he pulls it off with no mistakes

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy

NO. NO. NO. More NO.

He said he would do things properly. So we expect him to do things properly. If he isn't going to do things properly and if he is just going to keep moving in the reverse direction then they shouldn't have had episode 10. Episode 11 just makes episode 10 look like a filler or a delay tactic which is probably what it is.

They are trying to fill up episodes because they couldn't find or think of anymore content. More than half of episode 10 and 11 had nothing but scenes that doesn't contribute anything to the story. It's the same old thing that we saw over and over from the past episodes.

Of course we expect Shin to be a man, move forward and do what men do in animes- fix confusing situations and love triangle. This is what anime shows are. Even if the anime shows the main character as weak, unsure, unconfident, etc, they get a moment of realization and then boom- they are now Mr. Fix It. We received that show already where he realizes things and even promised to do things properly.

But did he fix anything? Of course not. The writers couldn't come up with enough story so they created episodes like these to delay or fill things up. This episode is like an announcement - "We ran out of ideas so Mr. Fix It won't come out till episode 12 but rest assured he will fix the Noe situation, the Jun situation and carry off Hiromi to the sunset and live happily ever after starting episode 12 of course".

So to summarize- Shin is not acting the way we would expect him to act or should act. It is not because it is his character traits, and character development but it is because the writers need 1-2 more episodes of things that has nothing to do with the story so that they can reach the goal of 13 episodes.

Your view of what "men do in animes" seems to be limited to very proactive characters or at least characters who can somehow go from being totally "go with the flow" guys to becoming proactive guys. Shin is decidedly not either of those kinds of characters, and he has never been that kind of guy if you've been watching 1-10, so I have no idea why you're applying anime stereotypes here.

You seem to be expecting Shin to act like Jun would act in this situation (as hinted at in the preview if that is indeed towards Noe), but Jun is the kind of guy that just acts on impulse after deciding what he thinks is best in a situation.

Shin, on the other hand, doesn't really seem to know how to act in this episode, which is why he meanders all the way to the end; it can't possibly be that easy for him to go from what he's been to this "Mr. Fix-it" that you claim he can become so easily.

I'm not buying your argument that he can go from zero proactivity to Jun-like amounts in a single or two episodes without some significant development. Noe's actions at the end of 11 will most likely be what forces him to move.

While I agree with you and Ascaloth that the anime has lost some of its perceived momentum, that was due to the writers deciding to go for a much broader resolution rather than delaying a lot of the major actions until later. We saw most of the big plots play out before Jun crashes his bike and after that we're led into a slowdown, so that hug from Shin to Hiromi might have been the first climax in some sense. After ep 9, I just expected the show to play out like a resolving drama without too many major ploys.

That's why I was kind of suspicious as people kept trying to come up with big "dramafest" ideas like having Hiromi say "the one you like isn't me" to Shin. Sure it would have spiced things up, but the writers seem to have solely embraced resolution for the last 1/3 of the anime...

[golthin]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

He doesn't know that Ai and Nobu have made their peace so that might be a jab,

The other two might be correct, but he already knows that Nobuse and Aiko are back in good terms!

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

I wonder how he is going to react if all 3 girls turn up to watch him dance. He doesn't know that Ai and Nobu have made their peace so that might be a jab, next the right hook from Noe in regards to the unresolved chicken tale/relationship. Finally the upper cut from Hiromi all dolled up in her kimono... I'd be amazed if he pulls it off with no mistakes

For some reason i get the feeling that the dance is going to be some metaphoric scene for Shin finally learning how to fly or realizing he can fly. I never noticed before but there has been a significant amount of time spent on Shin learning the dance for the festival and everyone is looking forward to it (including all 3 girls). I could be way off base but if you go back at look how much time has been invested in the dance it makes sense. I believe Noe even said once it was like Shin was flying when she watched him practice.

Shin doing a great a job with the dance which he really didnt want to do, but latley he has been saying he will do his best goes along with his line "from now on i will be do thing properly"

[mcruz1014]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

What I liked most about this show was the kiss, and how it's actually performed. From previous experiences, a character making advances on another usually gets annoyingly interrupted by a phone call or something. In this case, it connected, and that was probably the most surprising thing in this episode.

Spoiler for the main event:

I have to agree. I've seen too many anime where kisses get interrupted by untimely phone calls, door openings, etc. (I'm watching Onegai Teacher atm, so yeah...). It's refreshing to see a kiss go through.

I voted for a perfect 10 this week. I thought that the pacing of the episode was spectacular, and the significance of the picture book finally resounded through Shinichiro's narrations. Also, the cliffhanger ending definitely left me wanting more.

[Muyasuki]

Just finished watching Episode 11.

Strangely enough, I'm not as sure if it will end as Hiromi/Shin but at the same time, not so sure that it will end (in the pairing I prefer) as Noe/Shin. For some reason, I'm starting to think that he might actually end up alone by choice in the end. When he said, "Do things properly", I think he meant to actually reevaluate himself. In other wards, since he can't think stop thinking about either girl, he'll choose neither. (Though I'm still kinda hoping for an Ai/Shin ending . . . even if the chances are now less than 1%)

Its pretty nice that Aiko and Nobuse got back together(as friends) as they're both two of my favourite characters in the series.

I don't know how anyone else feels about this but I'm honestly thinking that Jun may have developed real feelings for Hiromi or at least that's the impression that this episode gave me.

I give this episode a 9.

((If they really wanted to give a shock ending, then the ending pairing would be Shin with . . . Tomoyo))

[ApostleOfGod]

Wow.

This episode really scares me. I thought they couldn't do it, I thought it was impossible.

But it can really turn out as a Noe/Shin ending now.

Brilliant.
10/10.

[relentlessflame]

I've come to the conclusion that I can no longer relate at all to the way so many of you are viewing the content of this episode or show. Frankly, it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Relationships have more "settings" than just "on" or "off". It's been clear all along that Shinichirou has been in love with Hiromi, but what does he feel for Noe? How do you define it? What do you call it? He doesn't hate her. He certainly sees her as more than just an acquaintance. He once stated that he loved her. He's spent a lot of time with her, and that time has been an inspiration to him (both creatively and practically). In fact, if it weren't for her encouragement, Shinichirou probably wouldn't have been able to finally free Hiromi's tears after all. In light of the show's premise, it's pretty clear: Noe is the angel that helped Shinichirou learn to fly. So, standing by the pier that represents so many of his memories with her, of course he'd be thinking about her! She's a very important person to him, and right now they're in a complicated situation that's at the very heart of the issue he needs to resolve in order to be with the woman he loves. This is not him "waffling" on his feelings for Hiromi, and this is not him being "indecisive" about anything. Doing everything truly properly is not as simple as brushing Noe off or letting her down with the force of two tons of bricks. He's indebted to her, and cares about her a great deal. Again, more than just "on" or "off", he has to find a way to capture what Noe really means to him as he tries to let her go -- to set her free, and allow her to fly as well.

The show has been so remarkably even-keeled on this issue that I honestly don't understand how people could continue, especially this far in, to believe that Shinichirou's feelings have ever changed at all. Who Shinichirou loves has never been the issue in this show, because they told us that answer in episode one. It has never actually changed in all this time. This show is a love story -- it's not about "who's he going to pick?!" it's about "the journey that led to their being together". By continuing to misread (in my opinion) the show's primary question/issue, people are setting themselves up for confusion and disappointment at every turn. Hopefully, once the show is completely over, those who are not so turned off by the fact that their favoured heroine didn't "win" will be able to go back and re-watch the show to see how carefully the show established that Shinichirou's true feelings never changed.

From my perspective, it seems that some of you are more interested in shipping than you are in the show, because this show is absolutely not shipper-friendly. There has never been a choice, only a path.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by ApostleOfGod

Wow.

This episode really scares me. I thought they couldn't do it, I thought it was impossible.

But it can really turn out as a Noe/Shin ending now.

Brilliant.
10/10.

I am truly curious what your basing that on? Because if your going by the last episode your in for a huge disappointment.

[ani_d]

You know what's a perfect conclusion in all of this? Raigomaru and Jibeta both flying. LOL That would be the best ending this stupid story can give Noe. X_X

But this show is really cool actually--minus the fact that Hiromi being an emo queen annoyed me a bit. It's interesting to note that the thing that gives depth to the story is a children's picture book which is....ironic.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I am truly curious what your basing that on? Because if your going by the last episode your in for a huge disappointment.

It's not like Shin doesn't feel anything for Noe at all. I mean, she's not like Ai. I wouldn't rule out Noe/Shin ending based on episode 10 because we all know episode 11 comes after that. For crying out loud, Hiromi kissed Shin already and what did Shin do? Acted like nothing happened and still had no clue that Noe broke up with him. Come on, dude. -_-

I'm not sure why because the typical ending to this show is definitely Hiromi/Shin. I think everyone can see that. Expectable. But I don't see anything wrong for peeps to hope that the writers will pull SOMETHING in the end and break away from the cliche ending--that's seems to be too trendy. That's also one of the reasons why I've hung around this far Maybe this show has more tricks up its sleeve. Maybe or maybe not.

Anyway, my take on the next episode is that Shin and Noe will have a proper farewell. =_= And that's me thinking the story will go to the typical ending route. *sigh*