News Stories

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by CrossoverManiac

Frank campaigned on a platform of screwing over NASA.

And so? Both this link and the original youtube link only say that Frank thought that manned Mars missions are a bad idea. This is a farcry from what your original post was claiming. At this point, it looks more like you've got some sort of axe to grind, and that's not exactly newsworthy. As I pointed out earlier, if you want to talk about the merits and faults of space exploration policy, go ahead and create a new thread, but please cut out this melodramatic alarmism.

Originally Posted by CrossoverManiac

I'm misleading people now?!? Well, let's see how misleading the title really is. Fact: on more than one occasion, Barney complained that NASA was getting hundreds of billions to go to Mars (hundreds of billions is quite a lot for an agency that only gets $18 billion per year). Barney wants to cut those hundreds of billions for his health care plan. Now, what was my title again? Oh yes, it's "Barney Frank wants to gut NASA for government-run health care". NASA is going to lose a sizable percentage of its budget and have it redirected towards the train wreck that is nationalized health care. Looks pretty damn accurate to me.

And it looks horribly misleading, if not outright dishonest, to me. Frank's point was that the U.S. shouldn't spend hundreds of billions of dollars in space exploration, and that this money would be better spent on healthcare. Look, I'm not here to debate with you on this particular topic. If you want to continue it, then do so in a new thread.

[mg1942]

Cap & Trade was passed by House of reps yesterday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090626/...s_climate_bill

[mg1942]

and...


Didn't the Spanish tried this already?

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: LESSONS FROM THE SPANISH RENEWABLES BUBBLE

Europe’s current policy and strategy for supporting the so-called “green jobs” or renewable energy dates back to 1997, and has become one of the principal justifications for U.S. “green jobs” proposals. Yet an examination of Europe’s experience reveals these policies to be terribly economically counterproductive. This study is important for several reasons. First is that the Spanish experience is considered a leading example to be followed by many policy advocates and politicians.

This study marks the very first time a critical analysis of the actual performance and impact has been made. Most important, it demonstrates that the Spanish/EU-style “green jobs” agenda now being promoted in the U.S. in fact destroys jobs, detailing this in terms of jobs destroyed per job created and the net destruction per installed MW.

The study’s results demonstrate how such “green jobs” policy clearly hinders Spain’s way out of the current economic crisis, even while U.S. politicians insist that rushing into such a scheme will ease their own emergence from the turmoil.

The following are key points from the study:

1. As President Obama correctly remarked, Spain provides a reference for the establishment of government aid to renewable energy. No other country has given such broad support to the construction and production of electricity through renewable sources. The arguments for Spain’s and Europe’s “green jobs” schemes are the same arguments now made in the U.S., principally that massive public support would produce large numbers of green jobs. The question that this paper answers is “at what price?”

2. Optimistically treating European Commission partially funded data1, we find that for every renewable energy job that the State manages to finance, Spain’s experience cited by President Obama as a model reveals with high confidence, by two different methods, that the U.S. should expect a loss of at least 2.2 jobs on average, or about 9 jobs lost for every 4 created, to which we have to add those jobs that non-subsidized investments with the same resources would have created.

5. Despite its hyper-aggressive (expensive and extensive) “green jobs” policies itappears that Spain likely has created a surprisingly low number of jobs, twothirds of which came in construction, fabrication and installation, one quarter in administrative positions, marketing and projects engineering, and just one out of ten jobs has been created at the more permanent level of actual operation and maintenance of the renewable sources of electricity.

6. This came at great financial cost as well as cost in terms of jobs destroyed elsewhere in the economy.

7. The study calculates that since 2000 Spain spent €571,138 to create each “green job”, including subsidies of more than €1 million per wind industry job.

8. The study calculates that the programs creating those jobs also resulted in the destruction of nearly 110,500 jobs elsewhere in the economy, or 2.2 jobs destroyed for every “green job” created.

9. Principally, the high cost of electricity affects costs of production and employment levels in metallurgy, non-metallic mining and food processing, beverage and tobacco industries.

10. Each “green” megawatt installed destroys 5.28 jobs on average elsewhere in the economy: 8.99 by photovoltaics, 4.27 by wind energy, 5.05 by mini-hydro.

11. These costs do not appear to be unique to Spain’s approach but instead are largely inherent in schemes to promote renewable energy sources.

http://www.juandemariana.org/pdf/090...-renewable.pdf


---------------------

So I am amazed to see people going along with the currently fashionable political argument that policies such as cap-and-trade, government mandates and subsidies for renewable energy can actually benefit an economy. It is claimed that government, working together with business, will create "a new energy economy", that the businesses involved will profit and that everyone will be better off.

This is a fantasy. Cap-and-trade can only work by raising energy prices. Consumers who are forced to pay higher prices for energy will have less money to spend on other things. While the individual companies that provide the higher-priced "green" energy may do well, the net economic effect will be negative.

It is necessary to look at the bigger picture. Profits can be made when energy is rationed or subsidized, but only within an economy operating at lower, or even negative, growth rates. This means that over the longer term, everyone will be competing for a piece of a pie that is smaller than it would have been without energy rationing.

This does not auger well either for growth or working our way out of today's crisis.

Typical partisan Republican reply isn't it?

Well..... Nooooooooooooooooo

It's president of Czech Republic Vaclav Klaus.

[CrossoverManiac]

Fast Barry also lied about Cap and Trade. He claimed it would only cost the average household $170 per year, the price of a stamp. But last year on the campaign trail, Fast Barry said it would much higher and that he would force people to conserve energy.

[yezhanquan]

One fundamental way to solve this problem is to use less energy (no matter how it's produced), or in a more efficient way.

[mg1942]

Go Arizona! http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=15523

Another attempt to push state rights. Better hurry the Fedzilla is gaining momentum.

[CrossoverManiac]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

And it looks horribly misleading, if not outright dishonest, to me.

You're the one being dishonest for trying to make me out to be a liar.

Frank's point was that the U.S. shouldn't spend hundreds of billions of dollars in space exploration, and that this money would be better spent on healthcare.

So, taking hundreds of billions of dollars out of an agency that only gets $18 billion isn't gutting at all.

Look, I'm not here to debate with you on this particular topic. If you want to continue it, then do so in a new thread.

You're the one who shifted this debate from NASA to 'CrossoverManiac is a liar'

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by mg1942

Go Arizona! http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=15523

Another attempt to push state rights. Better hurry the Fedzilla is gaining momentum.

That has nothing to do with state rights and everything to do with idiot neo-cons who can't accept that they lost on the national level and are now trying to continue their damage at a state level. It doesn't have anything to do with any federal regulations, but specificly the state environmental regulations.

If it did cover anything else, it'd be unconstitutional. Section 8 of the constitution grants the power to regulate commerce to the federal government. Surely something like this would be covered under that. So it still wouldn't be about state rights, and be about idiot neo-cons who can't accept that they lost.

In other news:

Troops arrest Honduran president

"Honduran President Manuel Zelaya has been arrested by troops ahead of a controversial referendum on plans to change the constitution.

Mr Zelaya's secretary said the president had been taken to an airbase outside the capital, Tegucigalpa.

The move comes days after the president sacked the armed forces chief, who had refused to back the referendum plan.

Mr Zelaya, elected for a non-renewable four-year term in January 2006, wants a vote to enable him to seek a new term."

It seems the President of Honduras has been ousted for trying to overstay his time in office. Though that article doesn't seem very clear if it's a coup or if he was arrested on orders from their congress. Coup seems more likely though.

[CrossoverManiac]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

That has nothing to do with state rights and everything to do with idiot neo-cons who can't accept that they lost on the national level and are now trying to continue their damage at a state level. It doesn't have anything to do with any federal regulations, but specificly the state environmental regulations.

I believe it was fears of hurting an already ailing economy that prompted Arizona to take this action.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by CrossoverManiac

I believe it was fears of hurting an already ailing economy that prompted Arizona to take this action.

Perhaps, but the point is, it's an act to repeal an existing piece of state legislation that effects emmissions from cars more than anything else. Even if you don't believe in global warming though, car emmissions do add to smog and lower air quality so it's still a good idea to regulate.

[WanderingKnight]

It seems the President of Honduras has been ousted for trying to overstay his time in office. Though that article doesn't seem very clear if it's a coup or if he was arrested on orders from their congress. Coup seems more likely though.

It's a coup, even if the media are trying to disguise it as a "suspension of presidency".

The amount of bias favoring the military coup the Spanish CNN and the Honduran media in general are showing is sickening. I do not know the details of Zelaya's presidency, but a military coup is never the way to solve the problems. The fact that the whole of the Honduran media is against him is more than enough to be suspicious of these events.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

It's a coup, even if the media are trying to disguise it as a "suspension of presidency".

The amount of bias favoring the military coup the Spanish CNN and the Honduran media in general are showing is sickening. I do not know the details of Zelaya's presidency, but a military coup is never the way to solve the problems. The fact that the whole of the Honduran media is against him is more than enough to be suspicious of these events.

it is more then just the media, it seems the countires supreme court, opposition party, members of his own party and the military are against him.

[mg1942]

oh noes we lost another icon
http://www.latimes.com/news/obituari...,6116879.story

[Knight Hawk]

TV pitchman Billy Mays found dead in Florida home

Spirited TV pitchman Billy Mays was found dead at his Tampa home earlier this morning, police said.

Mays, 50, lent his trademark booming voice to infomercials for products like OxiClean and Orange Glo.

His wife, Deborah Mays, found him at their home Sunday morning, the Associated Press reported. Tampa police said there were no signs of a break in or foul play.

An autopsy will be done by Monday afternoon to determine the cause of death.

What a shitty month this has been. Definitely going to miss his obnoxious loud voice. R.I.P Billy.

[whitepearl]

I'm gonna miss Billy Mays as well.

[technowood]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

It's a coup, even if the media are trying to disguise it as a "suspension of presidency".

. I do not know the details of Zelaya's presidency, but a military coup is never the way to solve the problems. The fact that the whole of the Honduran media is against him is more than enough to be suspicious of these events.

There is nothing to be suspicious about. This bias that you have observed is the obvious intense dislike the Honduran public, media and government have for the Hugo Chavez' and other socialist factions' influence on the Honduran president.

despite that statement above I agree that it is a coup and he should have been ousted through legal channels but If you have been following the details closely you could see that Zelaya was out to illegally modify the Honduran constitution for his own political gain against the will of the vast majority of the Honduran governmental entities under the obvious influence of Venezuela's Hugo Chavez.To add fuel to the fire here fired the chief of the armed force for not following his lead after the Honduran Supreme Court had concluded that Zelaya's planed referendum vote to modify the Honduran constitution is illegal thus leaving the military chief with option other then to follow the rule ordered by the Supreme Court.

Any way you look at it Zeyala's presidency is toast. He will probably go back to Honduras maybe even recognized as the current president but I seriously doubt that the rest of the Honduran governing bodies will wast any time to impeach him through legal means.

[WanderingKnight]

There is nothing to be suspicious about. This bias that you have observed is the obvious intense dislike the Honduran public, media and government have for the Hugo Chavez' and other socialist factions' influence on the Honduran president.

Oh yeah, so it's always a matter of ideology isn't it? Kill the socialists pigs!

Not to say that I side with Chavez or Zelaya (I don't know much about Zelaya though), but really, things are somewhat more complex in these events than a simple conflict of ideals. Usually it has to do with a lot of vested interests. Especially if the media is going as far as not calling it a coup d'etat, naming it a "suspension of presidency" instead, and making a very clear distinction between the two terms.

Which is completely ridiculous since this is, and will always be, a coup d'etat. And it's wrong however you look at it. Just seeing the military on the streets sends shivers down my skin, reminding me of times long past in this continent.

[technowood]

Your argument is that there is more then meets the eye because the media is mislabeling the turn of events in an obviously biased manner. that only proves the biased media is biased.

So the media down there is siding against the pinkos or what ever? sure they are and they may have other motives but It is only to be expected of the Honduran culture since Hondurans by and large have historically been staunchly anti socialist.

Of course thing aren't as simple as a clash of Ideals, there are other factors involved but I can assure you it is the single most driving force motivating the majority of Honduran individuals, government bodies, businesses and what ever else fits in between who are resisting Zelaya.

Anyway the way I see it if ideology and status quo were to be reworked onto the fabric of Honduran society it would only happen through bloodshed. This turn of events could have been a lot worst.

[WanderingKnight]

Your argument is that there is more then meets the eye because the media is mislabeling the turn of events in an obviously biased manner. that only proves the biased media is biased.

No, you see, the media is probably one of the most powerful organizations in any country. They're backed by a lot of different corporations, and their influence is a very powerful weapon used now and again by those who wield them.

It's not that I'm saying "there's more than meets the eye" because I believe Zelaya to be a good guy or something (he looks like a neo-feudalist sort of son of a bitch, so I don't think I'd like him)--it's that there's always more than meets the eye in these sorts of situations. The media have vested interests, or else they wouldn't be so staunchly against him.

Of course thing aren't as simple as a clash of Ideals, there are other factors involved but I can assure you it is the single most driving force motivating the majority of Honduran individuals, government bodies, businesses and what ever else fits in between who are resisting Zelaya.

Someone needs to smack you with a bunch of cash and you'll see what matters most in this world.

It's always about power, money and conflicts of interests. It's always been that way, since the beginning of time. Ideology as it's preached by those who make use of it to garner more power is nothing but a farce. Look at Chavez and you'll see how he abuses the socialist/communist dogma to rally people into believing he's doing something good for them, when he's actually a capitalist gone megalomaniacal.

Everyone's a capitalist nowadays, so what I say stands even more true in the face of facts.

[Anh_Minh]

This thread's about to become illegal.

How To Save The Newspapers, Vol. XII: Outlaw Linking
by Erick Schonfeld on June 28, 2009

Of all the misguided schemes put forth lately to save newspapers (micropayments! blame Google!), the one put forth by Judge Richard Posner has to be the most jaw-dropping. He suggests that linking to copyrighted material should be outlawed.