Fate/Apocrypha - Episode 25 [FINALE] Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Fate/Apocrypha, Episode 25 [FINALE].

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[Ultragunner]

ehhhh, how come Astolfo is still around, and seemingly with his power in tact too?

[Xero8420]

New Year Eve was possibly a fitting time to bring a closure not only to Fate/Apocrypha, but also a fitting time to end 2017. Well... So long, Fate/Apocrypha... It's been a fun ride for 6 months. Let it be the last page of year 2017.

As flawed as it is as a story, but the combination of the sweet Sieg x Jeanne reunion epilogue, Laetica's & Astolfo's departure ending with the 1st ED theme song played, made me shed a tears of joy to see this story come to an end in a bittersweet way. I can never forget that very memorable moment. Possibly one of the most memorable endings among Fate story, to the point that I would miss this journey then.

It was good to see Astolfo alive in the end. Felt like Sieg could have lived with Astolfo together if it wasn't for Shirou's irreversible wish progress.

On side note, Shakespeare was hysterical that he managed to conclude his epic story before he goes out with style, it was friggin gold. In no time, he will tell tale of his epic story once he comes back where he came from.

[Nachtwandler]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

ehhhh, how come Astolfo is still around, and seemingly with his power in tact too?

His master is alive technically so no reason for him to disappear.

Also, last scene with Gorges is another FGO reference for anyone who finished Part 2 prologue, I presume.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

ehhhh, how come Astolfo is still around, and seemingly with his power in tact too?

As long as Master is alive & kicking, Servant can still physically exist as long as Master got enough mana to sustain Servant's existence. Because the spiritual contract between them still exist, while the Command Seal is literally an insurance to reinforce the contract. But the burden lessens if a wish to exist in the world is granted from the Grail after the war.

Since Sieg became Fafnir & brought the Greater Grail to the Reverse realm of the world where Shirou's desire to "liberate" humanity is denied, Astolfo literally got an infinite supply of mana from Sieg & the Greater Grail combined.

Oh, I'm also glad that both Fiore, Caules, Gordes & Toole lives in the end as well. Quite frankly, I would outrage to see either of them die, cause both Fiore & Caules do deserve a lot better than they were before the war. They have more reasons to be alive, rather than died for nothing like Celenike & Roche. It would be an insult to say Darnic literally died for nothing, but what he did was a fruitless suicidal move.

Gordes, though, he got spared from die like a worthless pawn for a good reason. And for that, Uncle Gordes became a better person than he used to be. Before this, he used to be an arrogant, self-centered asshole. But now, he become humble, more caring & empathetic, even teaching his son alchemy while at least trying to make efforts to be more tolerant & patient. War has changed him for the better.

With the Grail is gone, Fiore make her own efforts to get back her legs. Yeah, she better off step down as the clan's head & don't continue down the magus path because she can't handle cruelty & deaths too well. For that, Caules is now represent as the clan's head by default. Guess what? He deserves the promotion, because he was shown to have a gutter & balls of steel to pull out a crazy shit such as imitating Jack's victim's last moment prior to death with his necromancy. Darnic was dead wrong about Caules for thinking him as a dull worthless pawn, while Caules himself was still yet to realize his own potential.

[Twi]

Finally got my recap and review out. The series failed to explain a lot of things, but I'll try to fill in the gaps.

In around a 1000 or so years, the planet will die which leads to the story known as Angel Notes. Humanity in that time forcibly evolved themselves (and did some genetic engineering that led to a war, but that’ll take too long to get into) to survive past the planet and Gaia didn’t like that, so she calls in some other planets to send their envoys to finish off them. The simplest solution here would be for them to leave the planet, which means going to the stars, but Shirou’s wish would make the earthbound and thus they would essentially be bound to the planet and go when it goes.

Now, the Universe, is basically a supercomputer in itself. Fate/Extella reveals it has limited resources and is constantly expanding, so it has to trim down on things that don’t offer it anything. By which I mean it cuts entire timelines off. There’s something called a Quantum Time Lock that basically has the universe trim timelines where no progress is made, while some that do are allowed to continue on. It also prevents time-travel to an extent.

So his wish would not only screw over humans in the short term, but he’d doom the timeline as well. He was basically giving up their future for peace. So he was “wrong” in this instance.

The Reverse Side of the World is basically a layer of reality where all the mythological beings from the past that you don’t see around in the modern day live. It’s normally impossible to access for humans, hence why Jeanne’s trip takes her a looooong time by both her and Sieg’s account. It’s basically the ending of Fate Stay Night (the Visual Novel) where Artoria is in Avalon and Shirou spends who knows how long walking towards her after his death, where one has to wait and one has to walk endlessly until a miracle occurs and connects them.

Sieg becomes Fafnir because he’s linked to Siegfried’s story. Where one exists, the other exists. So once Sieg lost the protection of the Command Seal, he was basically cursed to become Fanfir. The Grail could have stopped it by doing what Jeanne did in the end, but he realized that only be becoming the dragon that horded treasure could he realize the wishes of everyone else by taking the grail to the other side.

Now, Astolfo remains in the world after Sieg becomes a dragon because he’s technically still a Master. He didn’t die, and the connection between them remains despite the length, so he’s basically got an endless supply of magical energy to run free with. He didn’t incarnate like Gilgamesh did after getting dunked in grail mud.

Overall, the series was fine as far as anime goes. It wasn't UBW, but it was good enough to tide you over.

[Kanon]

The ending might have been great, if only they had bothered even slightly developing Sieg and Jeanne's romance. As it was, I couldn't have cared less about it. Nevermind that it's pretty much a copy/past of the Fate route's "Last Episode" (I think that was the name). But, hey, good for them, I guess. Although I have no clue how Jeanne left the throne of heroes and got to the reverse side of the world.

Semiramis and Shirou's last moments were actually more emotional for me, even though I don't particularly like either character.

Happy for Caules, Fiore, and Astolfo. They'll all get to live the way they want to.

Overall, that was a very forgettable story. My expectations weren't high but I will still disappointed. The basic premise could have been handled better.

[XFire]

Suddenly millions of Jeanne waifu-ists cried out in agony, only to be silenced forever.

[orion]

Originally Posted by XFire

Suddenly millions of Jeanne waifu-ists cried out in agony, only to be silenced forever.

Hahahahaha! I was rooting for Sieg. I wanted to see them kiss at the end. (It would have gotten a "10" out of me if they did that on screen.) Go Jeanne!

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Although I have no clue how Jeanne left the throne of heroes and got to the reverse side of the world.

Maybe the throne got destroyed or something. They both mentioned it being a long time, so if Gaia is dead and humanity is no longer bound to the earth, maybe she was set free to wander?

[bakato]

It's finally over. While this war was a sham in many ways, it truly was unpredictable in its winner. Shirou and Darnic. Two men who planned and schemed for decades only to have their prize stolen by some guy who should have been glorified cannon fodder at best. Sieg won everything. He won the grail, he got the immortality Shirou wanted for everyone, he even got the girl.

Originally Posted by Twi

Maybe the throne got destroyed or something. They both mentioned it being a long time, so if Gaia is dead and humanity is no longer bound to the earth, maybe she was set free to wander?

The throne exists outside the world and the time axis. It can never be destroyed. Heroic Spirits can't just enter the regular world without being summoned, but it is possible to travel to the Reverse Side where Sieg was. Though the possibility was just in the realm of not zero, there was no limit on how many times she could try. It was like running into a brick wall and being teleported on the other side.

As for Shakespeare, I think he solely existed just for that "The End."

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by XFire

Suddenly millions of Jeanne waifu-ists cried out in agony, only to be silenced forever.

Originally Posted by orion

Hahahahaha! I was rooting for Sieg. I wanted to see them kiss at the end. (It would have gotten a "10" out of me if they did that on screen.) Go Jeanne!

If anything, they can always go back read some doujin materials.

Actually, I suspect even some Astolfo boys wanted to see Sieg kiss Astolfo were upset as well. He broke the waifu's heart for trading one waifu for another.

Originally Posted by bakato

It's finally over. While this war was a sham in many ways, it truly was unpredictable in its winner. Shirou and Darnic. Two men who planned and schemed for decades only to have their prize stolen by some guy who should have been glorified cannon fodder at best. Sieg won everything. He won the grail, he got the immortality Shirou wanted for everyone, he even got the girl.

As for Shakespeare, I think he solely existed just for that "The End."

More reasons for the salty lots throwing fits on Sieg like a punching bag. Hell, maybe even throw darts or stabbing the pic of the "blank bitchboy". God dammit, Sumanai-kun! How dare you stole all the glory by yourself!

Perhaps Shakespeare just came with a purpose to write his own epic story, would have been better if he was a protagonist instead.

You know... I think Shakespeare breaking the 4th wall could literally represent the critic's narratives, especially those who think the story would have been even better to have a few more protagonists.

But either way, Shakespeare got his last laugh.

[MgMaster]

I liked this finale a lot myself actually. Proper closure to everyone(that alone is something many anime don't do these days...) and even Sieg's part was unique. Granted,it could've been done by Siegfried as well if he never died ~ some people,myself included,would've most likely preferred that, some wouldn't but can't please 'em all.

Shirou & Semiramis's part was particularly bitter-sweet to me. The dude got to go out in peace knowing his wish was already in effect & on the lap of one fine servant.

Just for the lols though:

Imagine if it was Urobutcher writing this. He'd probably make sure to keep Shirou alive long enough for him to just see dragon-transformed-Sieg flying off with the grail and die out while screaming in despair.

So is it weird to like this more than the UBW anime? I made my dislike of MCs FSN Shirou & Sieg(well,at least in a Fate series,I'll take 'em in a RomCom any day)pretty apparent in ep 24 thread but besides those few annoying moments, Apocrypha was fine. Whereas UBW it's like if you don't like Shirou, you're pretty screwed trying to enjoy it as he just overtakes the whole show.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Although I have no clue how Jeanne left the throne of heroes and got to the reverse side of the world.

According to Nasu, the method Jeanne used is the equivalent of "crushing on the the wall, until a tunnel is crushed through the wall."
And since there is no concept of time on the Heroic Spirit Throne, Jeanne literally just keeping crushing onto the wall again and again and again until she finally made it to the other side.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

More reasons for the salty lots throwing fits on Sieg like a punching bag. Hell, maybe even throw darts or stabbing the pic of the "blank bitchboy". God dammit, Sumanai-kun! How dare you stole all the glory by yourself!

You sure do obsess over people who dislike what you like, even going so far as to imagine them literally raging against this fictional character. I don't think this is healthy.

Originally Posted by shmaster

According to Nasu, the method Jeanne used is the equivalent of "crushing on the the wall, until a tunnel is crushed through the wall."
And since there is no concept of time on the Heroic Spirit Throne, Jeanne literally just keeping crushing onto the wall again and again and again until she finally made it to the other side.

For those who aren't sure how this would work, watch the last two episodes of Doctor Who series 9. The Doctor does the same thing, except literally.

[SilverGlavenus]

Originally Posted by orion

Hahahahaha! I was rooting for Sieg. I wanted to see them kiss at the end. (It would have gotten a "10" out of me if they did that on screen.) Go Jeanne!

Same here, the story was 6/10, the drop in art quality in episode 21 (correct me if I remember it wrong) lowered it to 5/10. But Sieg x Jeanne ending boosted it to a solid 9/10. My gawd is Jeanne beautiful.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Twi

Finally got my recap and review out. The series failed to explain a lot of things, but I'll try to fill in the gaps.

In around a 1000 or so years, the planet will die which leads to the story known as Angel Notes. Humanity in that time forcibly evolved themselves (and did some genetic engineering that led to a war, but that’ll take too long to get into) to survive past the planet and Gaia didn’t like that, so she calls in some other planets to send their envoys to finish off them. The simplest solution here would be for them to leave the planet, which means going to the stars, but Shirou’s wish would make the earthbound and thus they would essentially be bound to the planet and go when it goes.

One possibility anyway. In Tsuki no Sango humanity is not giving a fuck literally speaking.

[Blueknight78]

Ok first my review of the last episode, i get a mixed feelings on it, while i liked joanna getting her "happy ending", see shirou getting some "happy ending" is really weird, i'm really not too much fan of series which love to "forgive the villian" no matter how crap was his plans, just because "he was having a "noble motivation" or just the writer like this sort of "grey villian", i'm really not fan of that type of villian.

now overal serie, well first one of the clear weak points was on the "later to the party" mc, he really was one of the most weak and easy forgetable mcs on this sort of serie, also while the others characters from the cast where likeable and very good sieg for sure was really bad, joanna was really lieakble but her "suddenly" deep love for sieg really feel forced the romance here in my humble opnion was terrible rushed and lackbuster, the plot with all the plot twistes was not that good, some characters i feel diserver more others feel really terrible like loli jack and where there just for the "loli almost obligatory fanservice" for the lolicons sake.

Overal for the cast i enjoyed the serie for the main couple only really joanna was good sieg was terrible and empty, for the romance was really bad developed and plot was let's say "average".

i give it a 5.5 most for the majority of cast because i liked most of them.

That serie was for sure the weakest fate serie and this "nasu" need learn a little more when trying to write novels, specially about fate, because he really don't delivered a serie on the level of what is really a good fate serie.

[XFire]

Did you just tell NASU to learn how to write Fate?

Apocrypha was written by Higashide.

[Ruki0089]

Ermm, this is not Written by Nasu....