AnimeSuki Forums

Ithekro · 2017-02-22, 22:53

Nice work.

How possible do you think the black and white etching pattern on the three in Yamato 2202 would be?

skaianDestiny · 2017-02-23, 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Nice work.

How possible do you think the black and white etching pattern on the three in Yamato 2202 would be?

Oh sweet Jesus that would be hell. Even if I could a lot of the detail would be lost due to the nature of pixels. If they release a guide for them then maybe, but the most I can do ATM is the black color scheme.

Anyway, new progress:

Gamilon destroyer and cruisers in Goer's fleet camo and Imperial Guard blue.

Images

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Some fan color schemes for the Zoelguut.

Images

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Remember the first from a Japanese modeler. The second is from here.

EDIT: You know if there are any good side views of the Mirangal from Celestial Ark?

jaehaerys · 2017-02-23, 00:43

I wonder what the advantages of the turrets with fixed angle cannons (like the ones used in most Gamilas turrets) are over those with barreled cannons that can elevate and depress (like on Yamato and the Gamilas Meltoria class and Gelvades class). The latter seem objectively better, since they can actually elevate and depress. However, Gamilas still uses the former on their super dreadnoughts despite having the technology to build both kinds of turrets.

Ithekro · 2017-02-23, 01:01

Might be cheaper to produce the older barrel-less turrets in large number that the Gamilas need. They use that 330 mm triple turret on a lot of hulls and the 280 mm twin turret on the underside of the destroyers and secondary weapon on the regular battleships.

They have the 330 mm turrets on all their cruisers and battleships., even the newer one have at least one of those turrets on the underside. (The battlecruiser says it does not, but the barrel-less turrets seem too close to the regular style in size to be the 280 mm guns.) The super dreadnoughts have them as secondary batteries. Even Desler's ship has them on the side on the main hull along with the barreled version and the larger 480 mm cannons on the wing roots and underside of the bow. Only the big superdreadnought have the quad 490 mm turrets (unused in the opening battle of Yamato 2202, I half wonder if those ships were being remote controlled since they seemed to be used as decoys to get the Medauura-class ships to fire on them rather than they fleet of ships they could easily destroy in numbers.

skaianDestiny · 2017-02-23, 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaehaerys

I wonder what the advantages of the turrets with fixed angle cannons (like the ones used in most Gamilas turrets) are over those with barreled cannons that can elevate and depress (like on Yamato and the Gamilas Meltoria class and Gelvades class). The latter seem objectively better, since they can actually elevate and depress. However, Gamilas still uses the former on their super dreadnoughts despite having the technology to build both kinds of turrets.

Lowered power consumption maybe? The newer ships (Meltoria, Haizerad, Gelvades, Deusura II) all utilize positron cannons (the barreled ones) instead of positron beams (the non-barreled ones). However, note that the Meltoria uses 2 280mm positron beams along with its 2 330mm positron cannons as opposed to the Destroia which has 4 330mm positron cannons. Two of the turrets have been downsized despite the Meltoria being slightly longer (comparing them side-by-side, their engine blocks seem to be the same size). In addition, the Gelvades does not mount any guns larger than 280mm despite having the most turrets, including a total of 6 positron cannons. The Haizerad's guns are all 330mm like the Gaiderol, however it has a noticeably longer engine block than its predecessor.

So the conclusion I drew is the positron cannons use up a lot more power compared to positron beams of similar caliber.

Ithekro · 2017-02-23, 01:26

http://ourstarblazers.com/vault/customarkmodelsdec2014/

This model is probably your best bet. I double checked the film. The paint job is accurate for both sides of the ship. The port side is rarely seen during the film, as most shots of it are of the starboard side.

In the Star Blazers game, I've cheated for the Gelvades and Meltoria's weapons a little to keep their hulls simply and able to be impressive in combat. If I went as is for the Meltoria, she'd be functionally worse than the Destroia and if I don't think I could make a functional Gelvades with the weapon available if I didn't fiddle with it a bit.

I basically gave the Meltoria the 330 mm barrel-less turrets to the rear and underside and beefed up the side guns so that if has effectively six medium sized batteries and two heavy batteries (the positron cannons on the top) This was to make it functionally superior to the Destroia as if I didn't, the ships would not be able to fire enough weapon per turn within the rule to be a viable battlecruiser. To put this in perspective, the Destroia has four medium batteries centerline and four side mounted light batteries, but due to their size (them and the Meltoria) they can only fire two weapon systems per turn offensively. This works for the Destroia perfectly since the missiles are best left for defense or long range fire. But if I used the Meltoria as it was, it have three gun systems and wouldn't have anywhere near enough firepower to justify the two upgraded batteries alone. And if the other other batteries were downgraded due to them being 280 cm, than the whole ship would be overall less powerful even with two heavy batteries, as it would then have six light batteries (with a shorter range) to back them up (actually the total damage once in range it a tiny bit better with this setup over the regular Destroia, but you have to get in closer. The effective damage increase it 2 point of damage, while my setup is about 8 points of damage. The equivalent of adding another battery to the ship)

The Gelvades I just winged it and gave her the equivalent of 330 mm positron cannons (heavy batteries) for her main guns, then medium batteries for their larger hidden turrets as well as the side mounted lighter positron cannons, then light batteries for the remaining hidden turrets on the bow and underside. This was a compromise to make her more of Yamato's equal rather than an armed carrier with lots of light guns and a few medium guns. The small hidden turrets were actually under my sizing range for Gamilas weapons and would have had to switch to the even lighter Comet Empire light batteries, which I really didn't want to do. So I fudged it to make it as impressive as it looks. Given the performance that it gave against the Comet Empire, I think it is justified.

skaianDestiny · 2017-02-23, 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

http://ourstarblazers.com/vault/customarkmodelsdec2014/

This model is probably your best bet. I double checked the film. The paint job is accurate for both sides of the ship. The port side is rarely seen during the film, as most shots of it are of the starboard side.

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

In the Star Blazers game, I've cheated for the Gelvades and Meltoria's weapons a little to keep their hulls simply and able to be impressive in combat. If I went as is for the Meltoria, she'd be functionally worse than the Destroia and if I don't think I could make a functional Gelvades with the weapon available if I didn't fiddle with it a bit.

I basically gave the Meltoria the 330 mm barrel-less turrets to the rear and underside and beefed up the side guns so that if has effectively six medium sized batteries and two heavy batteries (the positron cannons on the top) This was to make it functionally superior to the Destroia as if I didn't, the ships would not be able to fire enough weapon per turn within the rule to be a viable battlecruiser.

The Gelvades I just winged it and gave her the equivalent of 330 mm positron cannons (heavy batteries) for her main guns, then medium batteries for their larger hidden turrets as well as the side mounted lighter positron cannons, then light batteries for the remaining hidden turrets on the bow and underside. This was a compromise to make her more of Yamato's equal rather than an armed carrier with lots of light guns and a few medium guns. The small hidden turrets were actually under my sizing range for Gamilas weapons and would have had to switch to the even lighter Comet Empire light batteries, which I really didn't want to do. So I fudged it to make it as impressive as it looks. Given the performance that it gave against the Comet Empire, I think it is justified.

I'm not familiar with your stats for the Star Blazers game, but I'd make it so the positron cannons were the same "power" as positron beams of higher caliber (eg. a 280mm positron cannon would be the same power as a 330mm positron beam) and greater range. So the Meltoria would have much higher frontal firepower compared to the Destroia in exchange for slightly worse rear firepower.

Actually, do you think you could post the stats for the 2199 ships? I'm interested in looking at them.

EDIT: Any suggestions for the next ship I should work on? It's either gonna be the Meltoria or the Gaiderol.

Ithekro · 2017-02-23, 02:32

If I can get Photobucket to work I can see what I can do.

Has anyone attempted to do a count of the ships as they form up between the Gamilas and Earth Fleets? I am pretty sure there is a 4K version on the net someplace if video quality is a problem.

skaianDestiny · 2017-02-23, 16:41

Here's the Meltoria.

skaianDestiny · 2017-02-23, 18:55

Found a cool UNCN design on Pixiv. Idea is that it's an older destroyer from the Kongou-class's era.

Images

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http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.p...st_id=61527668
Check out the source as it has more pics.

Also there's this:

Images

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A vessel from 2179 that has a lot of firepower but is slow and very cramped crew space.
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.p...st_id=51427006

Tri-ring · 2017-02-23, 21:58

First twelve minutes of the first story.

ENJOY !!

Ithekro · 2017-02-24, 00:07

So Gaiderol and Haizerad next?

skaianDestiny · 2017-02-24, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

First twelve minutes of the first story.

ENJOY !!

You're really late here. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

So Gaiderol and Haizerad next?

Yep!

Images

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Bit pissed that the Haizerad line art didn't quite line up with the Gaiderol, but I managed. Any suggestions for the next one?

EDIT: Which do you think is more powerful, the Dessler Gun on the Deusura II or the Andromeda's WMG?

Ithekro · 2017-02-24, 02:09

Oddly I think Dessler's cannon is more powerful due to the amount of wave motion cores powering it. However it has a even more narrow beam than Yamato. Andromeda's is more useful in combat against fleets. Yamato and Dessler's would be more effective planet killers or single target destoyers (like space fortresses and the like).

skaianDestiny · 2017-02-24, 03:30

I was able to get the length of the Gamilas transport from episode 22 of 2199 from Kobayashi. 268 meters.

https://twitter.com/makomako713/stat...26832273494017

Tzoli, do you think you could upload a scan of it?

EDIT: UX-01

Ithekro · 2017-02-24, 07:48

One of the "goods" being sold for the new film is a scale chart of the new ships including the Cometine Missile Cruiser and all five Andromeda class ships.

http://yamato2202.net/goods/gekijyo_1.html

However there is something I've noticed about the merchandise. A lot of them say "Star Blazers 2202" only, while others have both Yamato 2202 and Star Blazers on them in English. Some have it in Japanese, but I'm seeing a lot of prominent "Star Blazers 2202" merchandise.

TZoli · 2017-02-24, 08:25

Here you go:
http://i.imgur.com/dYFt6IK.jpg

In the meantime I show you my project I've been asked to do:
http://tzoli.deviantart.com/art/Isok...efit-665455004

Not yet finished, but there will be two versions, a refit of the Isokaze class with 12,7cm barrelled Shock cannons, and added twin 40mm Pulse laser turrets and an Isokaze mod type where I put 3 quad 40mm pulse lasers as well as modified nose which will hold a bow mounted shock cannon.
Also there will be similar refits of the Murasame and Kongo classes.

Question: What are the calibres of Yamato's Pulse lasers?

Ithekro · 2017-02-24, 08:46

The real Yamato's larger AA guns were 12.7 cm guns which seem to fit the space battleship's batteries more so that the much smaller 25 mm guns. With what use to be 155mm triple turrets upgraded to 200mm cannons, I think the AA guns were left as is (more or less given that the whole ship was upscaled).

TZoli · 2017-02-24, 09:11

Well, by luck I found her in the Japanese Wiki:

1x Wave Motion cannon
3x3 48cm Shock cannons (Positron shock cannons)
2x3 20cm Shock Guns (Positron impact guns)
12x Torpedo tubes (6-6 forward and aft)
2x8 Short torpedo (AA Missile?) launchers (8-8 Port and starboard)
2x8 Missile launch tubes (8-8 Funnel and ship bottom)
8x4,8x2 12,7cm High-angle Rapid-fire laser guns (These are the larger, mostly sphere/ball mounted AA guns)
4x3 88mm Pulse Laser guns (on the superstructure and next of the aft secondary turret)
4x3,10x2 75mm Pulse Laser guns (The smaller ones, while the tripe ones are around the bridge's wing)

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83....83_.282199.29

So they are mostly 12,7cm and 7,5cm ones. Interesting. Will edit my Isokaze drawing accordingly to enlarge the barrels of the AA guns.

Ithekro · 2017-02-24, 09:30

For Yamato 2202 I think the aft 88mm guns were replaced with a larger number of 75mm guns. Replacing 2x3 88mm for 8x2 75mm around the aft secondary turret.

Also, the Cosmo Tiger I might be seriously overpowered with its two huge beam cannons.

2017-02-22, 22:53	Link #301
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Nice work. How possible do you think the black and white etching pattern on the three in Yamato 2202 would be? __________________

2017-02-23, 01:01	Link #304
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Might be cheaper to produce the older barrel-less turrets in large number that the Gamilas need. They use that 330 mm triple turret on a lot of hulls and the 280 mm twin turret on the underside of the destroyers and secondary weapon on the regular battleships. They have the 330 mm turrets on all their cruisers and battleships., even the newer one have at least one of those turrets on the underside. (The battlecruiser says it does not, but the barrel-less turrets seem too close to the regular style in size to be the 280 mm guns.) The super dreadnoughts have them as secondary batteries. Even Desler's ship has them on the side on the main hull along with the barreled version and the larger 480 mm cannons on the wing roots and underside of the bow. Only the big superdreadnought have the quad 490 mm turrets (unused in the opening battle of Yamato 2202, I half wonder if those ships were being remote controlled since they seemed to be used as decoys to get the Medauura-class ships to fire on them rather than they fleet of ships they could easily destroy in numbers. __________________

2017-02-23, 01:26	Link #306
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	http://ourstarblazers.com/vault/customarkmodelsdec2014/ This model is probably your best bet. I double checked the film. The paint job is accurate for both sides of the ship. The port side is rarely seen during the film, as most shots of it are of the starboard side. In the Star Blazers game, I've cheated for the Gelvades and Meltoria's weapons a little to keep their hulls simply and able to be impressive in combat. If I went as is for the Meltoria, she'd be functionally worse than the Destroia and if I don't think I could make a functional Gelvades with the weapon available if I didn't fiddle with it a bit. I basically gave the Meltoria the 330 mm barrel-less turrets to the rear and underside and beefed up the side guns so that if has effectively six medium sized batteries and two heavy batteries (the positron cannons on the top) This was to make it functionally superior to the Destroia as if I didn't, the ships would not be able to fire enough weapon per turn within the rule to be a viable battlecruiser. To put this in perspective, the Destroia has four medium batteries centerline and four side mounted light batteries, but due to their size (them and the Meltoria) they can only fire two weapon systems per turn offensively. This works for the Destroia perfectly since the missiles are best left for defense or long range fire. But if I used the Meltoria as it was, it have three gun systems and wouldn't have anywhere near enough firepower to justify the two upgraded batteries alone. And if the other other batteries were downgraded due to them being 280 cm, than the whole ship would be overall less powerful even with two heavy batteries, as it would then have six light batteries (with a shorter range) to back them up (actually the total damage once in range it a tiny bit better with this setup over the regular Destroia, but you have to get in closer. The effective damage increase it 2 point of damage, while my setup is about 8 points of damage. The equivalent of adding another battery to the ship) The Gelvades I just winged it and gave her the equivalent of 330 mm positron cannons (heavy batteries) for her main guns, then medium batteries for their larger hidden turrets as well as the side mounted lighter positron cannons, then light batteries for the remaining hidden turrets on the bow and underside. This was a compromise to make her more of Yamato's equal rather than an armed carrier with lots of light guns and a few medium guns. The small hidden turrets were actually under my sizing range for Gamilas weapons and would have had to switch to the even lighter Comet Empire light batteries, which I really didn't want to do. So I fudged it to make it as impressive as it looks. Given the performance that it gave against the Comet Empire, I think it is justified. __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2017-02-23 at 01:43.

2017-02-23, 02:32	Link #308
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	If I can get Photobucket to work I can see what I can do. Has anyone attempted to do a count of the ships as they form up between the Gamilas and Earth Fleets? I am pretty sure there is a 4K version on the net someplace if video quality is a problem. __________________

2017-02-23, 18:55	Link #310
skaianDestiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2014	Found a cool UNCN design on Pixiv. Idea is that it's an older destroyer from the Kongou-class's era. Images Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload? http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.p...st_id=61527668 Check out the source as it has more pics. Also there's this: Images Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload? A vessel from 2179 that has a lot of firepower but is slow and very cramped crew space. http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.p...st_id=51427006 Last edited by skaianDestiny; 2017-02-23 at 19:13.

2017-02-23, 00:43	Link #303
jaehaerys Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2015	I wonder what the advantages of the turrets with fixed angle cannons (like the ones used in most Gamilas turrets) are over those with barreled cannons that can elevate and depress (like on Yamato and the Gamilas Meltoria class and Gelvades class). The latter seem objectively better, since they can actually elevate and depress. However, Gamilas still uses the former on their super dreadnoughts despite having the technology to build both kinds of turrets.

2017-02-23, 16:41	Link #309
skaianDestiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2014	Here's the Meltoria.

2017-02-23, 21:58	Link #311
Tri-ring Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Land of the rising sun	First twelve minutes of the first story. ENJOY !! <p>No iframe support, please <a href="http://youtu.be/sInxYM3v9QI">watch on YouTube</a>.</p>

2017-02-24, 00:07	Link #312
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	So Gaiderol and Haizerad next? __________________

2017-02-24, 02:09	Link #314
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Oddly I think Dessler's cannon is more powerful due to the amount of wave motion cores powering it. However it has a even more narrow beam than Yamato. Andromeda's is more useful in combat against fleets. Yamato and Dessler's would be more effective planet killers or single target destoyers (like space fortresses and the like). __________________

2017-02-24, 03:30	Link #315
skaianDestiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2014	I was able to get the length of the Gamilas transport from episode 22 of 2199 from Kobayashi. 268 meters. https://twitter.com/makomako713/stat...26832273494017 Tzoli, do you think you could upload a scan of it? EDIT: UX-01 Last edited by skaianDestiny; 2017-02-24 at 04:23.

2017-02-24, 07:48	Link #316
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	One of the "goods" being sold for the new film is a scale chart of the new ships including the Cometine Missile Cruiser and all five Andromeda class ships. http://yamato2202.net/goods/gekijyo_1.html However there is something I've noticed about the merchandise. A lot of them say "Star Blazers 2202" only, while others have both Yamato 2202 and Star Blazers on them in English. Some have it in Japanese, but I'm seeing a lot of prominent "Star Blazers 2202" merchandise. __________________

2017-02-24, 08:25	Link #317
TZoli Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Hajdúszoboszló, Hungary	Here you go: http://i.imgur.com/dYFt6IK.jpg In the meantime I show you my project I've been asked to do: http://tzoli.deviantart.com/art/Isok...efit-665455004 Not yet finished, but there will be two versions, a refit of the Isokaze class with 12,7cm barrelled Shock cannons, and added twin 40mm Pulse laser turrets and an Isokaze mod type where I put 3 quad 40mm pulse lasers as well as modified nose which will hold a bow mounted shock cannon. Also there will be similar refits of the Murasame and Kongo classes. Question: What are the calibres of Yamato's Pulse lasers?

2017-02-24, 08:46	Link #318
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	The real Yamato's larger AA guns were 12.7 cm guns which seem to fit the space battleship's batteries more so that the much smaller 25 mm guns. With what use to be 155mm triple turrets upgraded to 200mm cannons, I think the AA guns were left as is (more or less given that the whole ship was upscaled). __________________

2017-02-24, 09:11	Link #319
TZoli Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Hajdúszoboszló, Hungary	Well, by luck I found her in the Japanese Wiki: 1x Wave Motion cannon 3x3 48cm Shock cannons (Positron shock cannons) 2x3 20cm Shock Guns (Positron impact guns) 12x Torpedo tubes (6-6 forward and aft) 2x8 Short torpedo (AA Missile?) launchers (8-8 Port and starboard) 2x8 Missile launch tubes (8-8 Funnel and ship bottom) 8x4,8x2 12,7cm High-angle Rapid-fire laser guns (These are the larger, mostly sphere/ball mounted AA guns) 4x3 88mm Pulse Laser guns (on the superstructure and next of the aft secondary turret) 4x3,10x2 75mm Pulse Laser guns (The smaller ones, while the tripe ones are around the bridge's wing) https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83....83_.282199.29 So they are mostly 12,7cm and 7,5cm ones. Interesting. Will edit my Isokaze drawing accordingly to enlarge the barrels of the AA guns.

2017-02-24, 09:30	Link #320
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	For Yamato 2202 I think the aft 88mm guns were replaced with a larger number of 75mm guns. Replacing 2x3 88mm for 8x2 75mm around the aft secondary turret. Also, the Cosmo Tiger I might be seriously overpowered with its two huge beam cannons. __________________