Higurashi Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Midrange]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Spoiler:

Ahh, really, there were a lot of interesting clues that the anime left out. For example, the police also recovered a broken syringe from Rika's body. Obviously, it's not something you'd usually walk around with, especially not when you're only trying to get some soy sauce from a neighbour, so what could it be? (By the way, the police wasn't able to tell what was contained inside the syringe)

Spoiler:

So, if Kei went nuts in the first chapter, Mion and Rena are presumably normal, and they brought a syringe and tried to inject it--but Kei kills them both. This time Mion goes nuts, and Rika (and Satoko) bring a syringe to Mion--but Mion kills them both. Rika seems to know everything, so maybe she knew Mion went crazy and brought her an antipsychotic?

Or maybe some hallucinogenic drug (soy sauce?) to keep Mion in her crazed state

...Doesn't explain why Kei and Shion are going nuts at the end, though. Did Mion scare them so badly that Kei stabbed himself and Shion tossed herself out the window? What if Mion was dressed as Takano? She could have scared Tomitake into tearing open his own throat...

And where's Rena the whole time?

New theory: There's something in the water

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Midrange

Spoiler:

So, if Kei went nuts in the first chapter, Mion and Rena are presumably normal, and they brought a syringe and tried to inject it--but Kei kills them both. This time Mion goes nuts, and Rika (and Satoko) bring a syringe to Mion--but Mion kills them both. Rika seems to know everything, so maybe she knew Mion went crazy and brought her an antipsychotic?

Kinda like my second theory. I'm suprised it's consistant with this chapter as well. But...

Spoiler:

WTF would a little 10year old be doing w/a vaccine/cure/whatever anyway? And how can she know everything? my theory: She could be a/the demon...

[kj1980]

I think this episode was well done. Sure they might've left out some interesting things such as explaining the post-war rise of the Sonozaki family, but time-wise they were able to incorporate as much detail as possible. But the doll? I wonder why the staff left that out...

Otherwise, we are now finished with Onikakushi and Watanagashi. Onwards to Tatarigoroshi - while not as creepy as the previous two, it surely is going to be the most depressing.

[Newprimus]

Spoiler:

Of course, Keiichi could've just been imagining that Mion was holding a syringe in episode 4 instead of something else, considering his delusional state at the time.

I personally think he was quite lucid during Watanagashi-hen, imo.

Now, I just came up with a crazy theory of my own regarding Mion and Shion:

Spoiler for crazy speculation that MIGHT become a spoiler:

Sushi-Y's enlightening of what actually happened in the game got me thinking. If it were really Shion inside the cell, then it wouldn't be a problem, but what if it was Mion? Why would she call Shion "Onee?"

And then it slowly started to dawn on me.

First, consider Mion's status as heir to the Sonozaki yakuza. Not just a little part of it, but the whole thing. I've always wondered, why? Mion seems devious on the outside but we all know she's kind-hearted, soft, and pretty open in the inside. And judging from the TIPS thread, we know that she's a bad liar as well.

On the other hand, Shion comes off as nice and feminine on the outside, but we've all seen how devious and manipulative she can be in the inside.

So I kept thinking, who in their right mind in the Sonozaki family would label Mion as the official heir when the perfect person for the job is Shion?

And then it hit me. Mion ISN'T the heir to the Sonozaki household. SHION is.

All this time, I've been thinking in circles, trying to come up with reasons to justify Mion's status as Sonozaki heir, but the answer was so simple. She just simply ISN'T the heir.

Consider the bit of Sonozaki history covered in the TIPS thread. Twins were traditionally both killed to prevent conflict over the position as heir to the household. So why spare Mion and Shion in this case? Why deviate from tradition?

The answer is simple. To use one of the twins as a false heir, and as a decoy to soak up all the troubles that may come as the two grow up, while the real heir remains safe. As Shion said, Mion apparently has a lot of enemies. If someone were to try to assassinate the heir of the Sonozaki household, they'd just be killing off the false heir, whilst the real one then takes over and deals with the offenders with her superior yakuza skills.

Additionally they took the deception one step further. Shion's real name is Mion, and Mion's real name is Shion. The real Mion is the older, and the real Shion is the younger, but they've been pretending to be opposites for nearly their whole lives. This would explain why fake Mion (real Shion) (in the cell), with her mental fortitude broken down and all rationale seemingly shattered, would forget her deception and call the other 'Onee.' Because, in truth, fake Shion (real Mion) IS the 'onee.' It would also explain the repeated element of Keiichi questioning Shion or Mion's identity. First, over the phone with "Shion" and secondly inside the torture chamber, at "Mion." I think the creators were trying to tell us all something there.

This would also explain why the police made no mention of a tattoo on real Shion's (Fake Mion for all this time) dead body after she threw herself off that apartment. Obviously the false heir would have no tattoo on her back. And this may also explain her apparent arguing with herself in the game; she's lived as one person pretending to be another person her whole life. This has gotta make an impact if one went crazy afterwards.

All this, to me, mostly solidifies the theory that it was Mion (Real Shion---damn, this is getting confusing ) who led Keiichi into the warehouse. Thus, Rika's statement about the cats may have been referring to the onee (Real Mion, fake Shion) becoming angry with the imouto (real Shion, fake Mion) breaking into the shrine warehouse---an act considered evil in Hinamizawa. But that still doesn't fully explain why the onee got so pissed at the imouto. I think there's more to her anger than just the trespassing of the warehouse. Something that I hope will be explained in Meakaishi-hen.

But anyway, that would break everything down to the real imouto leading Keiichi into the warehouse, breaking sacred tradition. Everything else follows as I theorized before (somewhere in this forum), but as of yet it's still an incomplete theory.

I'm pretty sure it was the Onee during the phone call at the end of episode 6, but the phone conversations after that are a bit ambiguous. But I think I have a fairly good idea of what happened and who was who:

Remember that the last time anyone has ever seen "Shion" was right after the library. Additionally this was when Imouto was disguising as "Shion." Now, imagine that the Onee is now out there, after Imouto's life. Would Imouto have the time to change back into Mion when she's on the run?

Secondly, remember "Shion's" confession over the phone to Keiichi that she confessed to the village chief. We then follow with Keiichi's realization that the only time "Shion" would've had the chance to confess to the chief would be after he had disappeared.

But what if it was RIGHT BEFORE he disappeared? What is the Imouto caught up to the chief after he left the meeting and confessed. She goes away, the chief goes away, but gets snatched up (by the Onee most likely). "Confessed after he disappeared" can still mean a lot of things, and cover a fair amount of time. That was the last time anyone ELSE had seen of him. Doesn't mean Imouto couldn't have seen him after that particular time.

So Imouto confesses to Keiichi that she confessed to the village chief. But why does Imouto stay in Shion disguise during that particular phone call? I think there are a couple of reasons why:

1. She's nervous and panicked for her life and she's reverting to her more formal, feminine, real Shion self.

2. She knows that Onee is out there, as Mion. Apparently Onee is now taking over her real Mion identity, intending to erase the false heir from the world. Would it really do any real good to pose as Onee? Considering that she led him into the warehouse as Shion. It would do more harm than good to confuse Keiichi by suddenly speaking to him as Mion regarding the confession, the warehouse, and all that during that chief's disappearance phone call. Doing so would cause Keiichi to suddenly become suspicious on why "Mion" suddenly knows everything about what happened between him and "Shion". And not to mention, the town knows that "Shion" is missing. That fact could do better in getting Keiichi to maybe join the search effort, rather than "Mion" calling him about it.

The third phone conversation at the end of episode 7 was Onee, not Imouto,posing as "Shion." (also explains why we don't see her face like we did in the second conversation) I think by this time she has caught Imouto and got her to confess about confessing to the village chief and telling Keiichi and all that. BUT, not to exact detail. Which is why "Shion" in this conversation is so vague about WHERE and WHEN she confessed to the village chief. Knowledge that Imouto would know, but didn't tell Onee (or simply because Onee hasn't caught Imouto at this point, and is simply going on vague knowledge or assumptions).

So when Keiichi declares that the only time "Shion" could've confessed to the chief is after his disappearance, Onee laughes, as if maybe at the fact that Keiichi seems to have figured her out, because of the demon's influence, or whatever.

So, to summarize, Mion, as we knew her, is actually the REAL Shion, and Shion as we knew her is actually the REAL Mion, who is the real heir to the Sonozakis, and not the real Shion, who we've thought all this time was Mion.

The OP was also designed to trick us. It shows "Mion" with her tattoo, but that's actually not the Mion we've known all along. The happy, go-lucky, and soft girl we knew as "Mion" is actually the other girl, facing the girl with the tattoo.

Also note that the posture they are in is of a Yin Yang in this way:



(I believe that's the most "Official" portrayal of a Yin Yang. There are variants that are reversed, inverted, etc)

with the head near the "dot" area. Now look at the colors. "Mion" is on the left, and "Shion" is on the right. Who do we know has a 'light' outside and a 'dark' inside? Mion? Nope, it's Shion! And the same for the other, with dark outside, but light inside.

Maybe it's all simple coincidence. Or not.

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

Kinda like my second theory. I'm suprised it's consistant with this chapter as well. But...

Spoiler:

WTF would a little 10year old be doing w/a vaccine/cure/whatever anyway? And how can she know everything? my theory: She could be a/the demon...

More about Rika will be revealed in Himatsubushi-hen, the 4th chapter. It's the final question chapter, and it throws a pretty big curve ball. So watch for that.

Originally Posted by kj1980

Otherwise, we are now finished with Onikakushi and Watanagashi. Onwards to Tatarigoroshi - while not as creepy as the previous two, it surely is going to be the most depressing.

What are you talking about? The bath___ scene scared the crap outta me,
"No way... NO WAY.... SATOKOoOoO!! Σ(゜Д゜；) omgomgnonononoSatokOOOOO"

Like that.

Originally Posted by Shinova

Now, I just came up with a crazy theory of my own regarding Mion and Shion:

Spoiler for crazy speculation that MIGHT become a spoiler:

Sushi-Y's enlightening of what actually happened in the game got me thinking. If it were really Shion inside the cell, then it wouldn't be a problem, but what if it was Mion? Why would she call Shion "Onee?"

And then it slowly started to dawn on me.

First, consider Mion's status as heir to the Sonozaki yakuza. Not just a little part of it, but the whole thing. I've always wondered, why? Mion seems devious on the outside but we all know she's kind-hearted, soft, and pretty open in the inside. And judging from the TIPS thread, we know that she's a bad liar as well.

On the other hand, Shion comes off as nice and feminine on the outside, but we've all seen how devious and manipulative she can be in the inside.

So I kept thinking, who in their right mind in the Sonozaki family would label Mion as the official heir when the perfect person for the job is Shion?

And then it hit me. Mion ISN'T the heir to the Sonozaki household. SHION is.

All this time, I've been thinking in circles, trying to come up with reasons to justify Mion's status as Sonozaki heir, but the answer was so simple. She just simply ISN'T the heir.

Consider the bit of Sonozaki history covered in the TIPS thread. Twins were traditionally both killed to prevent conflict over the position as heir to the household. So why spare Mion and Shion in this case? Why deviate from tradition?

The answer is simple. To use one of the twins as a false heir, and as a decoy to soak up all the troubles that may come as the two grow up, while the real heir remains safe. As Shion said, Mion apparently has a lot of enemies. If someone were to try to assassinate the heir of the Sonozaki household, they'd just be killing off the false heir, whilst the real one then takes over and deals with the offenders with her superior yakuza skills.

Additionally they took the deception one step further. Shion's real name is Mion, and Mion's real name is Shion. The real Mion is the older, and the real Shion is the younger, but they've been pretending to be opposites for nearly their whole lives. This would explain why fake Mion (real Shion) (in the cell), with her mental fortitude broken down and all rationale seemingly shattered, would forget her deception and call the other 'Onee.' Because, in truth, fake Shion (real Mion) IS the 'onee.' It would also explain the repeated element of Keiichi questioning Shion or Mion's identity. First, over the phone with "Shion" and secondly inside the torture chamber, at "Mion." I think the creators were trying to tell us all something there.

This would also explain why the police made no mention of a tattoo on real Shion's (Fake Mion for all this time) dead body after she threw herself off that apartment. Obviously the false heir would have no tattoo on her back. And this may also explain her apparent arguing with herself in the game; she's lived as one person pretending to be another person her whole life. This has gotta make an impact if one went crazy afterwards.

All this, to me, mostly solidifies the theory that it was Mion (Real Shion---damn, this is getting confusing ) who led Keiichi into the warehouse. Thus, Rika's statement about the cats may have been referring to the onee (Real Mion, fake Shion) becoming angry with the imouto (real Shion, fake Mion) breaking into the shrine warehouse---an act considered evil in Hinamizawa. But that still doesn't fully explain why the onee got so pissed at the imouto. I think there's more to her anger than just the trespassing of the warehouse. Something that I hope will be explained in Meakaishi-hen.

But anyway, that would break everything down to the real imouto leading Keiichi into the warehouse, breaking sacred tradition. Everything else follows as I theorized before (somewhere in this forum), but as of yet it's still an incomplete theory.

I'm pretty sure it was the Onee during the phone call at the end of episode 6, but the phone conversations after that are a bit ambiguous. But I think I have a fairly good idea of what happened and who was who:

Remember that the last time anyone has ever seen "Shion" was right after the library. Additionally this was when Imouto was disguising as "Shion." Now, imagine that the Onee is now out there, after Imouto's life. Would Imouto have the time to change back into Mion when she's on the run?

Secondly, remember "Shion's" confession over the phone to Keiichi that she confessed to the village chief. We then follow with Keiichi's realization that the only time "Shion" would've had the chance to confess to the chief would be after he had disappeared.

But what if it was RIGHT BEFORE he disappeared? What is the Imouto caught up to the chief after he left the meeting and confessed. She goes away, the chief goes away, but gets snatched up (by the Onee most likely). "Confessed after he disappeared" can still mean a lot of things, and cover a fair amount of time. That was the last time anyone ELSE had seen of him. Doesn't mean Imouto couldn't have seen him after that particular time.

So Imouto confesses to Keiichi that she confessed to the village chief. But why does Imouto stay in Shion disguise during that particular phone call? I think there are a couple of reasons why:

1. She's nervous and panicked for her life and she's reverting to her more formal, feminine, real Shion self.

2. She knows that Onee is out there, as Mion. Apparently Onee is now taking over her real Mion identity, intending to erase the false heir from the world. Would it really do any real good to pose as Onee? Considering that she led him into the warehouse as Shion. It would do more harm than good to confuse Keiichi by suddenly speaking to him as Mion regarding the confession, the warehouse, and all that during that chief's disappearance phone call. Doing so would cause Keiichi to suddenly become suspicious on why "Mion" suddenly knows everything about what happened between him and "Shion". And not to mention, the town knows that "Shion" is missing. That fact could do better in getting Keiichi to maybe join the search effort, rather than "Mion" calling him about it.

The third phone conversation at the end of episode 7 was Onee, not Imouto,posing as "Shion." I think by this time she has caught Imouto and got her to confess about confessing to the village chief and telling Keiichi and all that. BUT, not to exact detail. Which is why "Shion" in this conversation is so vague about WHERE and WHEN she confessed to the village chief. Knowledge that Imouto would know, but didn't tell Onee (or simply because Onee hasn't caught Imouto at this point, and is simply going on vague knowledge or assumptions).

So when Keiichi declares that the only time "Shion" could've confessed to the chief is after his disappearance, Onee laughes, as if maybe at the fact that Keiichi seems to have figured her out, because of the demon's influence, or whatever.

So, to summarize, Mion, as we knew her, is actually the REAL Shion, and Shion as we knew her is actually the REAL Mion, who is the real heir to the Sonozakis, and not the real Shion, who we've thought all this time was Mion.

The OP was also designed to trick us. It shows "Mion" with her tattoo, but that's actually not the Mion we've known all along. The happy, go-lucky, and soft girl we knew as "Mion" is actually the other girl, facing the girl with the tattoo.

Also note that the posture they are in is of a Yin Yang in this way:



(I believe that's the most "Official" portrayal of a Yin Yang. There are variants that are reversed, inverted, etc)

with the head near the "dot" area. Now look at the colors. "Mion" is on the left, and "Shion" is on the right. Who do we know has a 'light' outside and a 'dark' inside? Mion? Nope, it's Shion! And the same for the other, with dark outside, but light inside.

Maybe it's all simple coincidence. Or not.

Σ(゜Д゜；)
That's a very well thought out theory. But damn, you got all that from "Onee"? (゜Д゜；) If only I could tell you more...

[SickC]

Originally Posted by Shinova

Spoiler:

Of course, Keiichi could've just been imagining that Mion was holding a syringe in episode 4 instead of something else, considering his delusional state at the time.

I personally think he was quite lucid during Watanagashi-hen, imo.

Now, I just came up with a crazy theory of my own regarding Mion and Shion:

Spoiler for crazy speculation that MIGHT become a spoiler:

Sushi-Y's enlightening of what actually happened in the game got me thinking. If it were really Shion inside the cell, then it wouldn't be a problem, but what if it was Mion? Why would she call Shion "Onee?"

And then it slowly started to dawn on me.

First, consider Mion's status as heir to the Sonozaki yakuza. Not just a little part of it, but the whole thing. I've always wondered, why? Mion seems devious on the outside but we all know she's kind-hearted, soft, and pretty open in the inside. And judging from the TIPS thread, we know that she's a bad liar as well.

On the other hand, Shion comes off as nice and feminine on the outside, but we've all seen how devious and manipulative she can be in the inside.

So I kept thinking, who in their right mind in the Sonozaki family would label Mion as the official heir when the perfect person for the job is Shion?

And then it hit me. Mion ISN'T the heir to the Sonozaki household. SHION is.

All this time, I've been thinking in circles, trying to come up with reasons to justify Mion's status as Sonozaki heir, but the answer was so simple. She just simply ISN'T the heir.

Consider the bit of Sonozaki history covered in the TIPS thread. Twins were traditionally both killed to prevent conflict over the position as heir to the household. So why spare Mion and Shion in this case? Why deviate from tradition?

The answer is simple. To use one of the twins as a false heir, and as a decoy to soak up all the troubles that may come as the two grow up, while the real heir remains safe. As Shion said, Mion apparently has a lot of enemies. If someone were to try to assassinate the heir of the Sonozaki household, they'd just be killing off the false heir, whilst the real one then takes over and deals with the offenders with her superior yakuza skills.

Additionally they took the deception one step further. Shion's real name is Mion, and Mion's real name is Shion. The real Mion is the older, and the real Shion is the younger, but they've been pretending to be opposites for nearly their whole lives. This would explain why fake Mion (real Shion) (in the cell), with her mental fortitude broken down and all rationale seemingly shattered, would forget her deception and call the other 'Onee.' Because, in truth, fake Shion (real Mion) IS the 'onee.' It would also explain the repeated element of Keiichi questioning Shion or Mion's identity. First, over the phone with "Shion" and secondly inside the torture chamber, at "Mion." I think the creators were trying to tell us all something there.

This would also explain why the police made no mention of a tattoo on real Shion's (Fake Mion for all this time) dead body after she threw herself off that apartment. Obviously the false heir would have no tattoo on her back. And this may also explain her apparent arguing with herself in the game; she's lived as one person pretending to be another person her whole life. This has gotta make an impact if one went crazy afterwards.

All this, to me, mostly solidifies the theory that it was Mion (Real Shion---damn, this is getting confusing ) who led Keiichi into the warehouse. Thus, Rika's statement about the cats may have been referring to the onee (Real Mion, fake Shion) becoming angry with the imouto (real Shion, fake Mion) breaking into the shrine warehouse---an act considered evil in Hinamizawa. But that still doesn't fully explain why the onee got so pissed at the imouto. I think there's more to her anger than just the trespassing of the warehouse. Something that I hope will be explained in Meakaishi-hen.

But anyway, that would break everything down to the real imouto leading Keiichi into the warehouse, breaking sacred tradition. Everything else follows as I theorized before (somewhere in this forum), but as of yet it's still an incomplete theory.

I'm pretty sure it was the Onee during the phone call at the end of episode 6, but the phone conversations after that are a bit ambiguous. But I think I have a fairly good idea of what happened and who was who:

Remember that the last time anyone has ever seen "Shion" was right after the library. Additionally this was when Imouto was disguising as "Shion." Now, imagine that the Onee is now out there, after Imouto's life. Would Imouto have the time to change back into Mion when she's on the run?

Secondly, remember "Shion's" confession over the phone to Keiichi that she confessed to the village chief. We then follow with Keiichi's realization that the only time "Shion" would've had the chance to confess to the chief would be after he had disappeared.

But what if it was RIGHT BEFORE he disappeared? What is the Imouto caught up to the chief after he left the meeting and confessed. She goes away, the chief goes away, but gets snatched up (by the Onee most likely). "Confessed after he disappeared" can still mean a lot of things, and cover a fair amount of time. That was the last time anyone ELSE had seen of him. Doesn't mean Imouto couldn't have seen him after that particular time.

So Imouto confesses to Keiichi that she confessed to the village chief. But why does Imouto stay in Shion disguise during that particular phone call? I think there are a couple of reasons why:

1. She's nervous and panicked for her life and she's reverting to her more formal, feminine, real Shion self.

2. She knows that Onee is out there, as Mion. Apparently Onee is now taking over her real Mion identity, intending to erase the false heir from the world. Would it really do any real good to pose as Onee? Considering that she led him into the warehouse as Shion. It would do more harm than good to confuse Keiichi by suddenly speaking to him as Mion regarding the confession, the warehouse, and all that during that chief's disappearance phone call. Doing so would cause Keiichi to suddenly become suspicious on why "Mion" suddenly knows everything about what happened between him and "Shion". And not to mention, the town knows that "Shion" is missing. That fact could do better in getting Keiichi to maybe join the search effort, rather than "Mion" calling him about it.

The third phone conversation at the end of episode 7 was Onee, not Imouto,posing as "Shion." (also explains why we don't see her face like we did in the second conversation) I think by this time she has caught Imouto and got her to confess about confessing to the village chief and telling Keiichi and all that. BUT, not to exact detail. Which is why "Shion" in this conversation is so vague about WHERE and WHEN she confessed to the village chief. Knowledge that Imouto would know, but didn't tell Onee (or simply because Onee hasn't caught Imouto at this point, and is simply going on vague knowledge or assumptions).

So when Keiichi declares that the only time "Shion" could've confessed to the chief is after his disappearance, Onee laughes, as if maybe at the fact that Keiichi seems to have figured her out, because of the demon's influence, or whatever.

So, to summarize, Mion, as we knew her, is actually the REAL Shion, and Shion as we knew her is actually the REAL Mion, who is the real heir to the Sonozakis, and not the real Shion, who we've thought all this time was Mion.

The OP was also designed to trick us. It shows "Mion" with her tattoo, but that's actually not the Mion we've known all along. The happy, go-lucky, and soft girl we knew as "Mion" is actually the other girl, facing the girl with the tattoo.

Also note that the posture they are in is of a Yin Yang in this way:



(I believe that's the most "Official" portrayal of a Yin Yang. There are variants that are reversed, inverted, etc)

with the head near the "dot" area. Now look at the colors. "Mion" is on the left, and "Shion" is on the right. Who do we know has a 'light' outside and a 'dark' inside? Mion? Nope, it's Shion! And the same for the other, with dark outside, but light inside.

Maybe it's all simple coincidence. Or not.

I totally agree you here.
This assumption may be the most close theory of what happened in Wata

And here's what I think why Onee wanted to kill Satoko and possibly Imouto

Spoiler:

We know in Ep7, the stair event, Mion(Onee) said Satoshi was demoned away because Satoko was cursed.
Well, if that "Mion" was Onee, I guess Onee LOVED Satoshi and blamed all the fault to Satoko.
And another assumption, what if Onee also had paranoia, just like K1 in Onikagushi?
If I am correct, then Onee would tried to kill all the people who was "involved" with the Satoshi incident(maybe tne decision to "demon away" Satoshi wasn't her idea)
Te village chief, of course, might be the first target; and Imouto could be the one who was with the chief; Satoko, definitely was this year's perfect victim according to Onee.
And about K1, he was Imouto's "lover",so...
If the OP of Ep5 is true, I can say Rika saw how Onee tortured Satoko and became crazy and killed herself.

The final question is: who killed Tomitake and Takano?
As I said before, Takano might not be dead, and Tomitake's outfit is more like someone from military instead a cameraman.
So it might be Tomitake was a investigator from the military and TAKANO KILLED HIM using some unknown method (she studied the "trandition" of Hinamizawa, so she might know how to kill a person in a "Hinamizawa" way) and finded a place to hide herself(maybe the doctor, or "director" knew because he is Takano's boss)

[Newprimus]

Spoiler:

In fact, I don't think I could've come up with that theory without Sushi-Y mentioning the 'Onee' part. I suppose it's not needed for a viewer to come to that theory but for me it was the catalyst that set that train of thought moving for me.

So I'm sort of peeved now at why the anime creators didn't leave that line in.

[DingoEnderZOE2]

Spoiler for Are you guys saying:

After reading that extremely confusing and long explanation I'm gonna try to sum it all up....So Shion is the older sister and Mion is the younger sister? Why would Shion calling out to her "Onee"(Big sister) outside her cage give you guys the idea that they both switched roles a long time ago? Wasn't it clear from the start that Mion was always the older one and Shion was the younger one? Why exactly are we assuming from that small detail that Mion is really Shion and Shion is really Mion?

For some reason I think someone might be reading into things a little too much.

[USCPharmacist]

The twins really mess with people's mind don't they? I doubt we'll be able to tell them apart for sure before the answer arcs, and I don't think we'll have all the answers even then.

From watching episode 5-8, I think I can make some educated guess, however.

Assumption:
Mion love K1 and is a good girl.
Shion may or may not love K1 and she is a fu_knut.

Going by this I think the first Mion we saw was the real Mion.
Reason: Mion was sad that K1 gave the doll to Rena, and the mofo also commented how Mion was too "manly" for dolls.

The Shion at Angel Mort the first time was Mion.
Reason: Why would Shion care a rat arse what K1 think? They should've never met, and I doubt listening to your sister about her dream guy will make you blush to stranger. Also Shion should've been working there for quite some time, why would she be embarrass with a dress she wore everyday? That Shion was just too familiar to K1 to be someone that even Rena the Sherlock Holmes has never noticed before. Her sad look as K1 left also struck me as more Mion like than Shion.

The Mion at school afterward should be Mion.
Too comical and nervous to be Shion. Also she was embarrass about being a waitress the other day to change the subject immediately and ran away.

Lunch box Shion is Mion.
Proven in the episode. But notice how she mentioned about K1 being the customer, Mion should not know that, but she did. It is possible that Shion told her about the incident but I think she sounded like as if she experience the event herself.

Back at school the Mion should be Mion.
No need to swap there Although I would like to mention why would Mion work at all? What the hell kind of Yakuza lord with supernatural power work in a store as a clerk or work as a waitress, shouldn't she be collecting "protection money" from stores?

The Shion at the Angel mort the second time should be the real Shion.
Reason: Well it was proven in the episode, but something buged me. The Shion here was a confident girl who seem to be able to rip a new one out of those goons even without the zombies...I meant villagers help, not the timid Shion we saw at the begining of the episode. She was also a good liar, a smooth talker and very manupulative. Very different from the stuttering fool at the begining of the episode.

Finally the Mion at the end of episode 5 should be Mion.
Also notice how the sad look on Mion's face match that sad "Shion"s face after K1 left Angel Mort the first time.

Anyway I am sleepy now, I will continue to make more guesses in other episodes after I rewatch them a couple time first.

[Newprimus]

Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2

Spoiler for Are you guys saying:

After reading that extremely confusing and long explanation I'm gonna try to sum it all up....So Shion is the older sister and Mion is the younger sister? Why would Shion calling out to her "Onee"(Big sister) outside her cage give you guys the idea that they both switched roles a long time ago? Wasn't it clear from the start that Mion was always the older one and Shion was the younger one? Why exactly are we assuming from that small detail that Mion is really Shion and Shion is really Mion?

For some reason I think someone might be reading into things a little too much.

Spoiler:

My theory goes that yes, Shion is the real older sister and Mion is the younger sister, and that the person inside the cage is Mion. So Mion is calling out to Shion, saying, 'Onee.' But of course, Mion's real name is Shion and Shion's real name is Mion, so their names are originally switched too.

I didn't come up with this theory just cause of that one comment; rather it was the catalyst for that train of thought.

I connected the 'onee' comment with the fact that Mion hardly seems the right choice for yakuza heiress, and going with the assumption that it was Mion (the imouto) in Shion disguise who led Keiichi into the warehouse.

[DingoEnderZOE2]

But is there any decisive proof to support that claim? Or is this nothing more than a theory?

With respect it is an interesting theory and as possible as it is I seriously think that's a little extreme. Would they really completely forget who they really are? However I do look forward to the rest of the episodes to see if your theory holds true.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by USCPharmacist

The twins really mess with people's mind don't they? I doubt we'll be able to tell them apart for sure before the answer arcs, and I don't think we'll have all the answers even then.

From watching episode 5-8, I think I can make some educated guess, however.

Assumption:
Mion love K1 and is a good girl.
Shion may or may not love K1 and she is a fu_knut.

Going by this I think the first Mion we saw was the real Mion.
Reason: Mion was sad that K1 gave the doll to Rena, and the mofo also commented how Mion was too "manly" for dolls.

The Shion at Angel Mort the first time was Mion.
Reason: Why would Shion care a rat arse what K1 think? They should've never met, and I doubt listening to your sister about her dream guy will make you blush to stranger. Also Shion should've been working there for quite some time, why would she be embarrass with a dress she wore everyday? That Shion was just too familiar to K1 to be someone that even Rena the Sherlock Holmes has never noticed before. Her sad look as K1 left also struck me as more Mion like than Shion.

The Mion at school afterward should be Mion.
Too comical and nervous to be Shion. Also she was embarrass about being a waitress the other day to change the subject immediately and ran away.

Lunch box Shion is Mion.
Proven in the episode. But notice how she mentioned about K1 being the customer, Mion should not know that, but she did. It is possible that Shion told her about the incident but I think she sounded like as if she experience the event herself.

Back at school the Mion should be Mion.
No need to swap there Although I would like to mention why would Mion work at all? What the hell kind of Yakuza lord with supernatural power work in a store as a clerk or work as a waitress, shouldn't she be collecting "protection money" from stores?

The Shion at the Angel mort the second time should be the real Shion.
Reason: Well it was proven in the episode, but something buged me. The Shion here was a confident girl who seem to be able to rip a new one out of those goons even without the zombies...I meant villagers help, not the timid Shion we saw at the begining of the episode. She was also a good liar, a smooth talker and very manupulative. Very different from the stuttering fool at the begining of the episode.

Finally the Mion at the end of episode 5 should be Mion.
Also notice how the sad look on Mion's face match that sad "Shion"s face after K1 left Angel Mort the first time.

Anyway I am sleepy now, I will continue to make more guesses in other episodes after I rewatch them a couple time first.

Well if that's true, then Shion didn't even meet K1 till the second Angel Mort part. I mean she recognized him easily and all...

[Newprimus]

Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2

But is there any decisive proof to support that claim? Or is this nothing more than a theory?

With respect it is an interesting theory and as possible as it is I seriously think that's a little extreme. Would they really completely forget who they really are? However I do look forward to the rest of the episodes to see if your theory holds true.

At this point, yes it's still a theory. And I don't believe they forgot who they really are...or at least, maybe they might've for a little bit as they live their roles over time.

Likewise, I really look forward to Meakaishi-hen.

But Satoko's chapter comes first for now.

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by Shinova

I suppose it's not needed for a viewer to come to that theory

Trust me, that was a critical clue. I can't comment on the correctness of your theory (even though I really want to), but any gamer who watches the anime knows that it's not even trying to provide the viewers with a solvable story: they're simply skipping out on too many things and focusing only on the suspense horror stuffs.

Make no mistake, even with the game, it's still all but impossible to predict the "truth" with 100% accuracy. If you had a theory that was anywhere *close* to the truth, then that's enough for a "pass".

[Newprimus]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Trust me, that was a critical clue. I can't comment on the correctness of your theory (even though I really want to), but any gamer who watches the anime knows that it's not even trying to provide the viewers with a solvable story: they're simply skipping out on too many things and focusing only on the suspense horror stuffs.

It's possible they might re-insert that clue in somewhere inside Meakaishi-hen (which I know nothing of right now). Maybe they're really trying to leave these question chapters as real question chapters.

[nubby]

Damn this show is confusing. Everyone here keeps making their own theory about who is who but what I'm wondering is what is the motive for all the killing? Why mass murder? Why kill your own sibling? The more I watch this show, the more confused I get =p

[Eleutheria]

Sigh... I still like my triplets theory. There's Mion, Shion, and .....oh I dunno, Prion (Plion), who has the mad cow disease and looks like a walking corpse. This explains everything.

I still haven't gotten to waitress Shion in Watanagashi-hen(game), and Satoko's anime story is going to air soon :/



The only thing that comes to mind about Sushi-Y's Onee clue is, why is Shion still calling Mion onee after all the torture? Why not anee, nee, or simply てめ～～？

[Beyond the Shave]

Spoiler:

Well, there goes my "Shion is actually Mion's mother" theory (Mion wouldn't call her "sis" in her state in the cell). But I still think Shion is the older sibling.

I think Oishi is full of shit. Did he really find one of the Sonozakis in the well? Then how could one of them survive? If one died by jumping in the well and one died by jumping off the building, who stabbed Keiichi, and who finished him off?

In fact, I think he is working with at least Takano, and possibly with Shion and Tomitake. Did Takano (the nurse) affect Shion/Mion's way of thinking somehow? Especially when she didn't kill Keiichi in the cave? When she said "stay away from me if you see me again", does that mean there's something growing inside her head, or is it that she knows somebody is going to alter her mind?

I think the Sonozaki in the white robe was Shion. How did she know that all the villagers came to help her and Keiichi at the Angel Mort? But then again, how did she know that Keiichi gave Rena the doll? Do the twins tell each other everything? Was that Shion at the beginning of this arc? Did somebody else let Shion know?

Also, about Rika... Mion/Shion's clothes were bloody when she (Rika) killed herself. But they weren't when she, Keiichi and Rena went looking for her and Satoko. Did she go to see them afterwards?

And why were Shion/Mion's clothes bloody at the very end of this episode?

Way too many questions.

[Shiroth]

This episode was just "WTF!" all the way through, but its just what i wanted from a Higurashi anime, really good stuff.

It makes sense at the end about what happened, its just why/how it happened - and the fact that we didn't see the scene with Rika killing herself from the start of the chapter as got me wondering a lot more.

I knew what was going on with Shion all along.. damn you Higurashi fan book. ^^;

Nexted chapter looks really good..

Spoiler:

Satoko's brother, Satoshi?

[Matrim]

For some reason I expected more. Now I am even more confused than before watching the episode. I need to watch it a few times before I can come up with some good explanation for these events.

Spoiler:

My main problem with this and also some other episodes is the ease with which Keiichi stays near people who he is convinced are mad killers. Let's face it - how many of you would go with Mion (or Shion) in that secret passage after she had admitted her guilt?
Now I am really convinced Shion is the evil sister. Shinova seems very interesting, something was definitely wrong in the relationship between Mion and Shion and Keiichi's perception of it. These dead people walking are really puzzling. But who is to say that Oishi did not lie in the end about Takano?