Madoka Magica - Episodes 11 & 12 Discussion/Poll - Final Episodes!

[Inanis]

Originally Posted by guuchan

Rewatched the episodes again after calming down (was way too hyped when watching the livestream). In the end, this show should still be called Puella Magi Homura Magica after all, or Saishuu Heiki Homura, a.k.a. Saihomu

well Madoka is the principal figure and Homura would be the protagonist.

.. i mean to say that even thou the series follows the "adventures" of Homura , the real "beginning" and "end" of everything would be Madoka: w/o Madoka , homura wouldnt have been able to time travel, w/o time travel (and loops) the "potential" of Madoka wouldnt have increased so much , w/o this increase it wouldn't have been possible to change the wishes' laws.


anyways really like the ending and im surprised it actually makes sense o.o (only plot hole i find is "why Madoka's brother remembers her?")

i guess im not the only one that thought : "oh wow Radoka pulled a Rei Ayanami on us" when she "became hope" (as stated by Kyubey) and several "copies" of her went around collecting the corruption from the magical girls' soul gems. ... Ayanami actually states "i am hope" in the End of Eva movies.. dunno mebe is just me seeing lots of NGE elements in the ending (yeah NGE fan too)


anyways great ending 10/10 heh finished the only way i knew this show would end: with Madoka's "death" after becoming a Magic Girl

[Dawnbringerz]

Originally Posted by *Osaka*Fan*

It almost seems sequel-ish but I don't think I'd like that, things like this are best by themselves.

The sequel-ish part is rather than the ending, but the part where QB said to Homu that the witch system in Homura's memory is interesting, and is very appealing in terms of collecting emotional energy for his race.

Spoiler for which leads to:

Kazumi Magica, where strange new type of witches and a new Incubator have just made their entrance in the recent chapters.

[Silverwyrm]

Originally Posted by mizou

If the Grief Seed is corrupted, magical girl dead ? or juste return normal
I tought that they dead, because of what that happen to sayaka ?

Essentially, when their seed darkens and they are about to turn into a witch, Madoka appears and drains the grief away (or so it looked) so they simply disappear instead of turning into a witch. So yes, they still die.

[ImperialX]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

It took ImperialX's blog post (thanks for that), to figure out why:

That is very perceptive. I was pretty much aware of the christian references in the show (most obviously Kyouko, but also the Faust stuff). So the ending is woven into the very fabric of the story. It makes perfect sense. It's the perfect conclusion to the show.

Why am I left unsatisfied? I'm Austrian, the son of Catholic parents in a country with a Catholic majority, and I never bought that message. I just don't believe that you can shoulder other people's despair. The one quibble I have with the show, is pretty much also the reason I turned out to be an atheist, I suppose. I don't buy the central premise.

This point was brought up by this commenter as well in my Blog, but frankly, as you say, you don't need to be a Christian to get what's going on and the reasoning for this airing on Good Friday.

[sa547]

In any case, I'll drink to that. Unlike Eva, it's a better thing that Madoka didn't need some elements from established religion to make its story interesting.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by ImperialX

This point was brought up by this commenter as well in my Blog, but frankly, as you say, you don't need to be a Christian to get what's going on and the reasoning for this airing on Good Friday.

Agree there. Actually it was reversed for me. As non-Christain, I never understood the theme behind Good Friday until i watched this episode

[MeoTwister5]

I watched the final episode again and I realized that it draws some very similar parallels with the conclusion of one story very close to my heart.

Spoiler for Persona 3:

The ending of P3 is the same. Faced with insurmountable odds the main character is forced to himself become the gate the protects the world from the personification of humanity's collective death wish.

This show and Persona 3 end with the undeniable fact that both characters will be locked in eternal combat with the big bad, which is in itself very much like a Sisyphean situation. Madoka will forever (?) be stuck in her own loop like Homura, tasked to fight witches and other downsides of the system across any and all dimensions. She does however become the guardian goddess/angel of sorts, watching over MGs like Homura in an attempt to stem the despair that results from the system. At the very least one of the major downsides of the system has been the witch transformation that was the end result of the wish.

I'd also like to add that in retrospect in now makes sense as to why Madoka's wish could only occur now as opposed to before, regardless of whether any character had thought of such a wish. Since Inkyubeytor revealed that:

1. Madoka gets more powerful with every new universe (ala The One).
2. His comment at the wish suggesting that it would be fulfilled only if the wisher was intrinsically able to equivalently exchange for it.

From here it is probably irrelevant if she could have made the wish beforehand in ANY time line, because it took this time line for Madoka to be sufficiently powerful for such a wish to be granted. It took this number of resets for all the other Madoka's to coalesce into this Madoka and grant her powers equal to that of a goddess who could then be capable of the task she insisted on her wish to Inkyubeytor. Even if she managed to make the wish earlier the end result would have likely been the same for this universe. Her new powers would only be really active from that point on for all remaining universes (and maybe retroactively).

[matteas]

I wonder if SHAFT would have opted for a month delay only to air the last two episodes on Good Friday even if the earthquake and tsunami in Japan hadn't occurred. It's also pretty possible that they thought of that only once they had to put it off. If they had planned it all from the very beginning, it would be kind of creepy and ominous with all the events that made an excuse to postpone the airing of the two last episodes.

[Jimmy C]

Blame the "Denial of change" thing on GG's mistranslation, again.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by ImperialX

This point was brought up by this commenter as well in my Blog, but frankly, as you say, you don't need to be a Christian to get what's going on and the reasoning for this airing on Good Friday.

just wanted to quote that commenter

I have never seen any information to the effect that anybody at SHAFT or Gen Urobuchi is either Christian or has any particular affinity for Easter. In fact, the only reference I know of is that Akemi Homura transfers from a Christian school.

While it's not directly christian,there's another reference to the bible in episode 11:
There's a painting similar to the one done by Michael Angelo exept in the anime it's just the two fingers.
A more direct christian reference is in episode 12 when Kamijou plays Ave Maria.

[Kirroha]

I found a close parallel between Madoka and Beatrice from Umineko, actually. Taking all the despair and darkness and blame onto herself, and then disappearing as an illusion...

[MeoTwister5]

Symbolically representing The Creation of Adam for Madoka does make sense in a way, because like the Christian God she is (re)making the world to her liking against its previous state, with her ascension to godhood.

[xizro345]

I think people are overanalizing (or "too much speculah"). I doubt Gen had a real meaning to the last scene, and I frankly won't even bother to try to think about what it is. Since it's not explained on screen, I'll simply not ask myself.
Also, I'd rather stay clear from speculating symbolisms and such.... Like Eva (which is a total different league given its terrible -IMO - screenplay) for me it's just a waste of time, as it'll be never be confirmed by anyone.

[matteas]

Yeah, I also noticed the reference to The Creation of Adam. I think it makes sense the most of all possible Christian signs present in Madoka. Madoka becomes the God and descends to every mahou shoujo who is about to turn into a witch and upon a touch she kind of inspires "new life" to them. Though, this new life isn't exactly life in its standard meaning; however, it could be regarded as an afterlife.

[elvibez]

I think Madoka is more like Jesus, she dies so others may live.

[Seiryuu]

WOW

I am glad I decided to stick this through and watch it to the end. That was something of an ending that people had suspected from the start, but it was still executed beautifully.

And to be honest, I too found it somewhat fitting that this ended up coming out right around the time that countless people around the world are fixing to celebrate the day that

Spoiler for according to some...:

God Himself chose to accept all the sin and despair of all people of all times on Himself, descend into Hell itself, and grant everyone a chance at peace.

Sorry for the religious bit, but I can't help but see parallels. And whether you believe or not, I'm sure most people on these forums have heard or can find someone who will tell them the story, so I don't think mentioning it should be seen as "preaching" or anything like that. Anyway, it's far from the first story where a person pulled a stunt like that. I was just surprised by the timing. If the creators didn't realize and choose to release this at this time, then I can't say how it happened.

[Dark Wing]

I really fail to understand what some people have against the ending of this series?

I didn't have to think too hard to come up with some explanations for why things happened. I mean really do we need a huge flashing neon sign saying" this is how it is" at the end of every story....

[Sparvid]

Well, that was ironic: Around episode 3 or 4, my thoughts on the future ending was "I hope that at least Madoka and Sayaka makes it out alive. Even if other people in the cast are killed off, I'd like to see an ending where they go to school as usual, in some way or another." And then I get an ending where everyone except Madoka and Sayaka are alive and well!

One very minor complaint: When Sayaka finished listening to the concert, I was expecting her to say something like "Okay, I'm ready. Let's find out what's on the other side." but instead it was Madoka who said it. That made it sound less like Sayaka accepting her fate, and more like Madoka hurrying her along.

[RedWing]

Homura's battle with Walpurgis was not a fight and more like a one sided beatdown, which was a bit disappointing. Would've been better to see some blocking, dodging and attacking rather than Walpurgis just shrugging everything off and hitting Homura once. The long Modoka Homura naked embracing scene was long and overly sappy. After 11 episodes of crushing despair and reality, we are suddenly hit with a truck of happiness and miracles.

I liked the ending, but there are many things that were wrong with it.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by matteas

I wonder if SHAFT would have opted for a month delay only to air the last two episodes on Good Friday even if the earthquake and tsunami in Japan hadn't occurred. It's also pretty possible that they thought of that only once they had to put it off. If they had planned it all from the very beginning, it would be kind of creepy and ominous with all the events that made an excuse to postpone the airing of the two last episodes.

That's just silly, target audience as well as staff have nothing to do with christians.