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Originally Posted by Knightrunner
I feel like the staff hijack this episode to make sure Yuina doesn't beat the main character. She had all the potential characteristics and theme to own every character in the show, but they decided to dumb her down.
I don't need to experience hard work to figure out it is tough.
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110
This ^
I at first thought Yuina was a contrast version of Ohana. Ohana was basically 'dumped' into the Kissui inn and have to work there to feed herself at first, but slowly found the enjoyment of working as waitress. What i expected of Yuina was: while she has the right to inherit one of the largest inn in the region (and can marry into that guy's families, owning a whole bloody resort, and being part of Japanese filthy rich folks), she have a different career in mind, and want to get into colleague to follow that pathway, even when it could be more difficult and she has to build everything from scratches.
But the show just make her into a spoiled princess, who don't want to do labour works and hasn't experienced a taste of works instead. Is this an attempt to signalize a message of typical Asian parents/ adults? On how kids should follow their parents career and work their asses off instead of dreaming on doing something else?
Greatly disappointed
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lol, ^ these guys get it. Those issues are exactly why I was disappointed by the character 'development' they gave to Yuina.
Some replies to the stuff people posted previously:
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Originally Posted by Grey
There's a difference between "considerate" and "selfless".  And what's with "friendship" in quotation marks? We have no reason to think the friendship wasn't genuine. Actually, we don't really know how long they've been friends at all, or how they met. |
The main reason I have a rather poor impression of the extent of Kou's actual feelings of "friendship" is the fact that their relationship has actually
ended. This is clearly not because Ohana wanted it this way--she obviously still cares for "Kou-chan" quite a lot. No, the only reason they have actually stopped communicating with each other is because Kou has let Ohana believe that even the basic act of looking to him for encouragement and support as a friend was Ohana
taking advantage of his kindness. If Kou no longer wants anything to do with the girl simply because Ohana can't give him an answer right now, and he clearly sees her struggling and feeling guilty over it, then frankly I have to wonder if there was any friendship in the first place. Has Kou only even stuck with Ohana this long because he personally believed that their relationship might become romantic eventually? It damn well looks like it.
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo
Lets look at this frankly. It sounds like Yuina's and Yousuke's engagement isn't something they thought up when they were kids. It sounded like it was something that their parents arranged. And lets be honest here. A major aspect to some kind of agreement like that being made probably has to do with their status as heirs to major inns and their presumed future status of working at an inn in the future. Yuina's honest explanation of not wanting to work at an inn does bring to question the foundation of their engagement. Especially given the cultural expectations of being the wife of the owner of the inn.
It's something that culturally I think allot of westerners aren't comfortable with seeing.
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lol. I guess I have to clarify some things, as for a matter of fact I'm a second-generation asian immigrant so it's not like I'm particularly engrained in western culture in the first place. I agree with you really, as far as the circumstances necessitating a review of Yuina and Yousuke's actual marriage. What set me off, however, was moreso the flippancy with which Yousuke then moved his sights over to Ohana (or even someone just like her). Things weren't working out with Yuina, true, but it showed a real lack of perspicacity to just casually dump her. If he were actually serious about finding a woman with Ohana's qualities he'd try harder to understand the actual difficulties Yuina percieved with what he wanted from her--as opposed to, y'know, more or less acting like some Ohana-like girl for him would somehow just fall into his lap.
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
Actually, I thought it was... good? He knows what he wants, and he's upfront about it. And apparently it doesn't include a woman who'd be okami for him. She has to want it too. (The way he handled the part-timers was atrocious, I don't deny it. But the problematic is different from a wife-hunt.)
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My response here is pretty much the same thing as what I just wrote above. Being upfront about what you want is good, I agree, however--having a realistic perspective, and knowing what it might actually take to get there, is (in my opinion) more important by far. Ohana is a great girl, yes (lol, well, I guess so)--but having barely interacted with her, it would be totally idiotic to assume she'd just come work for his inn. The "for him" aspect which I perhaps too quickly threw in there was referring to a person who would actually marry him and agree to work there. As far as that larger perspective goes, from what we've actually seen from the show, Yousuke actually had a
better chance of teaching Yuina how to enjoy her work so that she could fulfill that latter requirement than of convincing some random girl--who, even if passionate about ryoukans like Ohana showed him, might have already found their place.
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Still, two questions bug me: how much older than Yuina is he, and how old were they when he proposed?
Meh. Aside from judging whether he's a datable guy or not, wait till he confesses before leveling that kind of criticism at him. So far, he hasn't done anything to bother Ohana with his crush.
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I'm not to clear myself on those other questions, but as far as Kou, he's already ended up causing Ohana
loads of pain, in my opinion. Of course, it's not really intentional--and furthermore, his absorption in his own emotions and desire for a girlfriend is actually pretty much expected given his age and level of maturity. I'm not condemning him as a person as a whole. Still, however: teenaged/high school "love" and relationships come off to me as pretty much an universally pathetic and terrible mess of things, with perhaps a few exceptions, and Kou here is prettu much a perfect example of why (from my perspective). That's why, even if Kou and Ohana's relationship is actually fairly realistic or normal for their circumstances, I haven't really held back my criticisms.
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Originally Posted by Triple_R
So it's your position that Ko should just bottle up his feelings for Ohana, no matter how strongly he feels them, and no matter how great a need he feels to give vent to them?
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That's not really what I feel at all. If what Kou's feeling were actually those of love, or even if he were simply genuine about expressing them, then I would have no problem supporting him. What we've actually got here though is pretty much a standard, banal, mindless 'attraction' common for boy's his age acting with zero sincerity. To have pretended that he ever actually cared about being "friends" with, and then to make her actually feel
guilty when she can't respond to the confession he suddenly sprung on her. That's 'feelings' sure, yeah certainly, but of the most banal kind.
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As for being "actually" considerate, how is Ohana being considerate by leaving Ko completely hanging for several months?
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I think Grey already responded to you on this, but he's right--a relationship is a two way road. If one side isn't ready, it is
absolutely reasonable for them to ask for time or to put the answer off--it's their own life, after all. What
wouldn't be considerate would be making the other party wait indefinitely, compelling them to keep on hoping for an answer when you don't actually have an intention to change anything. Ohana was not stringing Kou along, however--she genuinely worried, putting thought into her life, and was working hard to give Kou an answer with which could be satisfied--from her heart. It was actually Kou, himself, who failed to keep the lines of communication open, and made decisions which would be important to Ohana's thoughts without letting her know about them. The onus, here, frankly cannot be put on Ohana side, because
Kou has been the one who kept playing hide-and-seek with what he actually thought about things.
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So it's your position that friendship can never turn into romance?
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That's not what I think, actually, but since you mention this again, I'll cover it later below.
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Why exactly can't Ohana respond to his romantic confession?
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I've already talked about this somewhat above, but the answer is of course because she isn't ready to. Ohana deeply values Kou as a friend, but has never previous considered at all the prospect of being with him romantically, so she needs time to work out what this would mean for them and whether she would actually be okay with it. Kou is at the very least someone Ohana does not want to lose, which is why she cannot simply throw out an answer flippantly.
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Ko is the one who should apologize?!
If anybody should apologize, it's Ohana, for leaving the poor guy completely hanging for several months.
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Who's the one who let Kou be left hanging, exactly? Kou
himself. Ohana obviously wasn't ready to give an answer immediately, so if he wasn't fine with that, he should've damn well said so. Allowing Ohana to keep on constantly thinking "He's waiting for me" is doing nothing but applying more fucking pressure. Tell Ohana that he's okay with waiting, or else tell her that if she's not ready, they should just go back to being friends. That's
communication; that's
consideration. But hanging on desperately like he just can't stand not being her boyfriend any longer is just the damn stupidest thing he could do. Making things awkward, breaking communications, the whole relationship becomes nothing but pain for both sides. By saying she can take her time with things, now that he's actually made her think about the idea (no matter how awkward that confession might have been), he could've let the romantic feelings grow naturally at their own pace.
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It's not passive-aggressive at all. It's very patient, and very forthright.
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Frankly, if
that can be called patience and honesty, I think you're applying some very low standards.
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... Where do you get this idea that "falling in love with someone" is a completely optional thing?
It often isn't. People often can't help falling in love with someone.
"Can't help falling in love" was even the name of an Elvis Presley song.
I'm pretty sure the line "I can't help falling in love with you" (or something to that effect) has been in countless love songs too.
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On the idea of love being an optional thing. No. Basically, it is true that "Attraction is not a choice". But
love? Love actually takes effort. Love requires genuine self-sacrifice. And
that's not something people can really be forced into. So yes, actually, being in love is something people choose to do.
As for what
isn't optional, that base attraction, that is what it is up to us as humans, as actual sentient consciences, to rise above. Relationships are a two way road--your basic attractions, if completely self-centered, are ultimately nothing but a fucking dead end. Even if it isn't some soul-borne companionship made by destiny you should at least apply some basic consideration to keep things pleasant all around. Kou has simply got no fucking clue on this--if you give to others, they will give to you. However, the only
real way you can apply this principal is to actually think about how you can give in a way that people will actually be grateful for, rather than simply thinking to yourself "I gave so much for them" and then suddenly springing people with "Now it's your turn to give me something back".
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Again, where do you get this idea that crushes are things that people can help having, or not having? Generally speaking, they're not.
You can control how you act upon a crush (which Tohru has done, by the way), but you generally can't help simply having them.
As for Ko, why should he think that Ohana sees nothing at all in him? Clearly, Ohana values him quite a bit, and the two were close friends. I personally think that a good friendship is often a good basis for a romance later on. Obviously not every friendship will turn into a romance, but I see nothing at all wrong with that relationship evolution in some cases.
As for Yosuke, it's pretty telling, don't you think, how strongly Yuina reacted to the idea that Yosuke might go after Ohana instead? It's a bit of a dickish move for Yosuke to raise that idea to Yuina, but at the same time, I found it pretty inconsiderate of Yuina to give Yosuke a response that he didn't want to hear in the heat of the moment of a bunch of employees quitting on him (oh, and while she also publicly blamed him for them quitting, IIRC).
Hmmm... maybe Yosuke and Yuina deserve one another. Both actually do seem a bit passive-aggressive to me.
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On Tohru,
sure he's controlling himself...to the bounds of not stepping over public propriety
lol. Beyond that, he's clearly getting carried away with himself, letting himself constantly get excited over Ohana with regards to things that have nothing at all to do with him. He is your average clueless dork, and a completely grating one.
As far as friendship and love--my position is that
real friendship can occasionally be a fantastic base for a romantic relationship. This is obviously not the case with Kou, however, whose relationship with Ohana as far as we can see was only maintained on his end by his romantic emotions for her. You have to have an
actual friendship before you can say that the relationship evolved platonicism to a romantic one. The ideal way for a pair of friends to become lovers, in any case is to have an open conversation before either one of them gets carried away with romantic ideas for the other. If the couple in question really do genuinely care for each other, then the relationship should be fine wherever it goes. The obvious problem in this case, if Kou really
did feel friendship originally, was that he never gave real thought to
Ohana's feelings on the matter.
Finally, on Yuina, yeah it was pretty obvious that she'd gotten comfortable with the idea of Yousuke being into her. It was just deserts for her after it turned out that she had no fucking clue about what actual effort was, but for me that doesn't really mean anything as far as actually making Yousuke any better. Rather, as I said at the start, it pretty much only downgraded Yuina to the level of the rest of the dorks in this story. You're probably right, though, as far as this potentially signifying that Yuina and Yousuke are actually perfect for each other. Given the loss of potential Yuina had to undergo for this though, I dunno if I can feel that's actually a good thing :P.
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