[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 2 Turn of the golden witch

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by lovelysan

Ha, ha, seriously. Seeing episode 3 on the menu but not being able to play due to my lack of comprehension is KILLER. Never before* have I wished so strongly that I knew Japanese. ...Or at least, that I payed more attention in class >_> . (I can technically read/write katakana and hirgana with no problems, I just cannot COMPREHEND. *laughs* .....^^;..... *sadly*)

Hmm
I know how you feel
Some years ago I was dying to read Higurashi and nobody ever volunteered to translate the visual novels.
Then I got tired of waiting for others' translations and decided to learn Japanese on my free time, on my own, with lessons found over the internet.

Now, my skills with japanese are not that great (I'm a bit slow reading) but I at least am able to read novels on my own.

I think that, if people really like this kind of stuff, it is worth to save some time every day and study a bit. Japanese is not so hard as it seems. Maybe you won't make it in time for umineko series, but there's always good stuff around and to come.

It's just an advice.

Originally Posted by The Creator

Can someone recomend me a good site where i can download some kanji list to learn how to write them (and their meanings of course =P)

I'm still learning katakana but i want to start learning some kanjis as soon as posible.
I don't know many verbs yet, i'm still finishing first year =P so i you think that it's too difficult, tell me so please.

http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/

Just type the kanji and you get lots of stuff about it (including how to write).
Some more uncommon kanji don't have so much info, though

just an example:

http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/3962/

For the kanji "高" (high).

[kiki_natsumi-chan]

Hmmm...can I ask where you got those japanese lessons? =D
Thanks =D

[Shadow Miko]

I haven't played Banquet of the Golden Witch yet so this might be silly to ask. But is Kanon's actual name ever revealed?

I had a really stupid theory about him, actually. Haha. But because his name was never revealed in Turn (at least, I'm not there yet if it is) I couldn't theorize more.

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by kiki_natsumi-chan

Hmmm...can I ask where you got those japanese lessons? =D
Thanks =D

google
this guy rocks

hehe

some suggestions:

http://www.nihongoresources.com

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/ (dictionary)

http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/~ts/japanese/



After them, you can try to complement:

http://homepage3.nifty.com/jgrammar/

http://www.timwerx.net/home/index.htm

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/

http://www.learn-japanese.info/

http://www.jgram.org

these pages always have links to others of the same kind

[kiki_natsumi-chan]

Originally Posted by Shadow Miko

I haven't played Banquet of the Golden Witch yet so this might be silly to ask. But is Kanon's actual name ever revealed?

I had a really stupid theory about him, actually. Haha. But because his name was never revealed in Turn (at least, I'm not there yet if it is) I couldn't theorize more.

Nope it isn't revealed. Dx

theacefrehley: Thanks for the links xD

[NrvnqsrChaos]

"Turn of the Golden Witch" is the best I have read from Ryukishi07 up till now, it is a complete mindfuck, destroys everything you might have thought of in "Legend of the Golden Witch" (it was that way in my case) and entertains you really well on the other hand. Also, the music is really great, I am even thinking of converting the ogg files and put it on my iPod.
Definitly looking forward to "Banquet of the Golden Witch", I cannot wait for the new translation patch. Thanks a lot to the team here!

Originally Posted by The Creator

I'm still learning katakana but i want to start learning some kanjis as soon as posible.
I don't know many verbs yet, i'm still finishing first year =P so i you think that it's too difficult, tell me so please.

No, just learn some kanjis, then try reading something, look up the missing kanjis and try to memorize them. I make good progress that way, it can give you a good feeling of success very fast if you keep learning steadily.

[nagare]

Originally Posted by The Creator

Can someone recomend me a good site where i can download some kanji list to learn how to write them (and their meanings of course =P)

I'm still learning katakana but i want to start learning some kanjis as soon as posible.
I don't know many verbs yet, i'm still finishing first year =P so i you think that it's too difficult, tell me so please.

Way off the topic of Umineko, but I love discussions like these. theacefrehley posts above are probably a good place to start. In addition to his recommendation, but I HIGHLY recommended reading fairy tales. Not only are they relatively easy to read, but by reading them, you also learn some core cultural values and symbolism of the language (both visual and verbal). Plus many stories will reference them in one form or another. Another plus, is that they're easy to find (on the web - most likely for free, or at *gasp* a library) and will have very good translations in your language of preference for reference and analysis.

In Japanese, look under 童話 or 昔話
Some examples: 浦島太郎, 一寸法師, 桃太郎, サルカニ合戦, つるのおんがえし, かぐや姫
I also recommend reading the 一休さん short stories.

[MuzikalNotes]

And to get back to the main topic, yeah, Turn of the Golden Witch did pretty much kill off any possible theories I had (if I had any at all). Though the theory that someone is possibly assisting Beatrice won't get off my mind, even though I think it seems kinda unreasonable, since she doesn't really need anyone to help her, and she would have done this without anyone telling her to anyways. It's still on my mind though.

And on the Japanese, thanks to those new links, I can finally properly learn Japanese grammar. I have so many bookmarks and files, yet I couldn't find a way to learn grammar through a step-by-step tutorial with huge explanations. Thank you every much! ありがとうごんざいます!

[kiki_natsumi-chan]

For some reason, in this arc, I don't trust Genji. I don't really know why...it's just that...if we followed the Wolf and Sheep puzzle...if Genji was a sheep he would have been weak if a 'wolf' came. But he didn't get killed. He lived until the end. Rosa...I don't exactly suspect her since...she was with somebody most of the time. So unless we can't trust the perspective of the narrator (whoever that is) and the red text...Genji might have something to do with the murder...

Who knows.

[The Creator]

Originally Posted by Peroyasha

Way off the topic of Umineko, but I love discussions like these. theacefrehley posts above are probably a good place to start. In addition to his recommendation, but I HIGHLY recommended reading fairy tales. Not only are they relatively easy to read, but by reading them, you also learn some core cultural values and symbolism of the language (both visual and verbal). Plus many stories will reference them in one form or another. Another plus, is that they're easy to find (on the web - most likely for free, or at *gasp* a library) and will have very good translations in your language of preference for reference and analysis.

In Japanese, look under 童話 or 昔話
Some examples: 浦島太郎, 一寸法師, 桃太郎, サルカニ合戦, つるのおんがえし, かぐや姫
I also recommend reading the 一休さん short stories.

Thx for the info, but i have no idea how to write kanjis, i wanted some kind lists of kanjis with their meaning and how to write them =x

[MuzikalNotes]

Originally Posted by The Creator

Thx for the info, but i have no idea how to write kanjis, i wanted some kind lists of kanjis with their meaning and how to write them =x

http://www.kanjisite.com/index.html
http://japanese.about.com/library/blkanji.htm
http://japanese.about.com/library/blkodarchives.htm

These are the sites I used to learn kanji. The first site doesn't have stroke order, but the other two do. Good luck.

[The Creator]

Thankee-sai

[crazysjd89]

Originally Posted by MuzikalNotes

And to get back to the main topic, yeah, Turn of the Golden Witch did pretty much kill off any possible theories I had (if I had any at all). Though the theory that someone is possibly assisting Beatrice won't get off my mind, even though I think it seems kinda unreasonable, since she doesn't really need anyone to help her, and she would have done this without anyone telling her to anyways. It's still on my mind though.

That's not to absurd, if you think about how she (apprantly) got Shannon to help her by breaking the mirror.

My personal theory is along those lines, though, that Beatrice is getting one of the 18 people to help her, by getting people to "believe" her.

Originally Posted by kiki_natsumi-chan

For some reason, in this arc, I don't trust Genji. I don't really know why...it's just that...if we followed the Wolf and Sheep puzzle...if Genji was a sheep he would have been weak if a 'wolf' came. But he didn't get killed. He lived until the end. Rosa...I don't exactly suspect her since...she was with somebody most of the time. So unless we can't trust the perspective of the narrator (whoever that is) and the red text...Genji might have something to do with the murder...

I wouldn't put too much faith in the Wolf and Sheep puzzle. I think even Rosa said it, that in the situation they were in, it would even be possible for less wolves to kill more sheep.

To use an example that I remember, Rosa "prooved" she wasn't a wolf by holding the gun at Battler. In this case, there would have been two sheep and one wolf, but I think the wolf could have easily won in this situation.

[MuzikalNotes]

Originally Posted by crazysjd89

That's not to absurd, if you think about how she (apprantly) got Shannon to help her by breaking the mirror.

My personal theory is along those lines, though, that Beatrice is getting one of the 18 people to help her, by getting people to "believe" her.

Mine is something along those lines, except that someone outisde the family is assisting her. Everyone had died in either or both of the episodes, so I don't really think it's impossible. Guess I'll just have to wait until the 3rd episode is finished (or be able to read enough Japanese to read most of the episode, whichever comes first).

Edit: Another theory I have come up with is that something similar to what happened in Higurashi

Spoiler for Higurashi:

the Hinamizawa Syndrome that pretty much caused all the events in it to happen

might have come up in Umineko, but wouldn't that be too obvious? Well, I don't mean exactly that, but something at least distinctly similar. Being confined on an island with no possibility of escape doesn't calm the mind, after all.

[Shadow Miko]

Originally Posted by kiki_natsumi-chan

Nope it isn't revealed. Dx

Really?~ Then I'll stick with my theory that Kanon may some how be

Spoiler:

Ouka

Ha~

[kiki_natsumi-chan]

Originally Posted by MuzikalNotes

Edit: Another theory I have come up with is that something similar to what happened in Higurashi

Spoiler for Higurashi:

the Hinamizawa Syndrome that pretty much caused all the events in it to happen

might have come up in Umineko, but wouldn't that be too obvious? Well, I don't mean exactly that, but something at least distinctly similar. Being confined on an island with no possibility of escape doesn't calm the mind, after all.

Nah...I doubt that. I mean...it would get kind of old, using the same thing. Although it's true that being stuck in an island while they're killing everybody doesn't help anybody calm down, I don't think it can be a local disease that is only found in Rokkenjima (did I spell that right?)

[Shinigami_Mello]

If they tried to pull of a Rokkenjima syndrome...well, I cant say I'd be too happy at all. That'd be the lousiest thing that could happen!

[Eryops]

Spoiler for chapter 2:

Based on the first two chapters I think that Rosa is the prime suspect. In the first chapter Rosa's corpse is missing its face, which leaves the possibility open that that corpse actually belongs to someone else. In chapter 2 all the adults who aren't servants except for her are killed first and their faces are left intact, while she remains alive until the end. As for motive, she was constantly bullied by her older siblings who always viewed her as inferior, so it's possible that she had a grudge against them.

By the way, I'm convinced that there's a naturalistic explanation for the murders. According to Maria and Kinzo, magic must carry an element of risk, which means that it must be possible for Beatrice to lose against Battler for that to be the case. Therefore, even if Battler can't figure out how something happened without magic, there has to be a non-supernatural explanation in order for the element of risk to be there for Beatrice. Besides, it wouldn't be much of a game if Beatrice's victory was completely assured.

As for the supernatural events, it's possible that what we see are the explanations for what happened that Beatrice provides to Battler at the end of chapter 2 in order to explain how everything happened through magic. Thus we have grounds to question them, especially since Battler never sees any of these events taking place.

Of course, I wouldn't be too surprised if chapter 3 has already blown all my theories out of the water.

[The Creator]

I have a different teorie about "the" culprit

Spoiler:

i think that as someone has already said, beatrice has someone who helps her, but i actually think that "helps" someone. I think it's something similar like what happens in the first arcs of higurashi, someone gets infected and that causes most of the events in the arc. Here beatrice "seduces" someone to becoming "the key", and thus choosing the "sacrifices". In the first game the "key" is Natsuhi, because of some dialogues (such as kinzo talking to her, telling her that she trully is a ushiromiya or learning that her husband has keep secrets from her and etc) and in the second arc, the "key" is Rosa (because of the scene when she goes to the chapel and takes the gold, and the first scene in the train with maria and etc)

What Beatrice does, is like i said, tries to seduce one person trying to make her accept that desire, that sin that she internally desires. For Rosa it's respect, from her siblings, from maria, and from people in general.

But i also think that there is one "real evil" culprit, like takano. What bothers me a lot, it's the secret tea party, the witch thing.

It has nothing to do with the actual ushiromiya story (or very little in fact) but i think that it's actually pretty important, i think that it's obvious that beatrice has some kind of desire and she can't fulfill it unless someone beats her. I think it has to do with kinzo, but i'm not that sure.


Another cool thing i have been thinking is that, we know that berna was a human once, and we can suspect that beatrice and lamba were also humans once.
I'm beginning to think that when battler finally beats her, he will become a wizard (or whatever the manly-equivalent for witch is xD) and take beatrice place.

But that just a crazy theory =P

[Shinigami_Mello]

Just one to say on your theory Creator.

Spoiler for Battler:

The way Battlers trying to deny the existence of witches makes me pretty sure that he'd refuse to be a witch/wizard xD