[Mai Otome] Episode 14 Discussion/Poll

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

But then you never know, it would be plausible that Rena ran off with her actual child in the casket and tricked the nanny. Hence, increases the survival chances of the real princess since the others would be after Rena who is carrying the royal casket.

That would be my guess. Or perhaps Nagi doesn't fully trust Sergey and, since he now has John Smith searching for the Princess, he had the nanny give Sergey the wrong information to throw him off the track. He may very well know that Arika has the jewel. Unlike Sergey, Nagi did not appear suprised when the Harmonium played.

[Preston]

I'm in a poor mood, yet this episode was much better than I anticipated and I see some quite peculiar theories forming. However, as the series is in the Mai- series, and is made by Sunrise, they could all be quite right.. I'll give my current opinion on them.. but first..

Originally Posted by Timeless Enigma

Now Sunrise, don't let it all go to waste with a cop-out ending again!

Don't delude yourself. Sunrise will go with what the majority in Japan prefers. Their preference on the ending of the last series will heavily influence how this series ends. As for what that preference may be, I do not know. I liked the ending because it fitted. If there is one thing you learn through studies in media, and being the director for collection of film-shorts, its choosing something that fits. You may hate it, your staff may hate it, but if it fits what you are trying to accomplish, you choose it. If it is decided the film's centre genre is comedy, the films is ended on a funny note. Look at all the comedies out there, all the good ones get serious, and usually end with an ending labled 'cheesy'.

Right... as for the theories, I have things to say on three of them. For the first one, Arika is the princess? What? We have it from the mouth of a dieing old woman, whom claims to be a nanny? I wouldn't believe it. Sure, it makes the idea seem all that more likely, but in my opinion is intended to mislead viewers. Standard storytelling technique, lie, early on, about an important plot device, have it come from the mouth of a person that seems believable, and has no reason to lie, the viewer/reader subsequently accepts it mentally, and moves on to other plot points, then the truth comes out, and the shock factor wins. I won't truly believe who is in what position until I see several solid facts supporting it. Regardless, people become forgetful in old age, and for all we know that woman could be senile, simply mistaken, or deliberately misleading people. She may believe she is telling the truth, but could have been lied to for some unknown purpose. Perhaps Rena wanted to create false trails protecting the real princess. Who knows? Not us, yet..

Secondly, Erstin teaming up with Tomoe to bring Arika down? Doubtful. I see no even remotely possible motive. The way I saw it and accepted it when I watchec the raw was that she was just having a heart-to-heart with Arika, and Tomoe being the usual thinker, followed and/or guessed where they were, figured she could use the extra information that Arika would let known to Erstin, and just eavesdropped on their conversation. This is not what I want to believe, but what I believe and what I see as correct. Of course, the alternative still remains and unlikely possibility, and whom are we to guess the likelihood of things in a series made by Sunrise and in the Mai- series of all things.

Third, and finally, the last "rape"-scene for Arika. So, those guys were deliberately told to make her lose her graduation? Whatever.. I think you people are jumping way to far to conclusions. Remember that Otomes are never supposed to remove their clothes in public? This is obviously an important rule and Sunrise have stressed it early in the series for a purpose. They just needed to pull off her clothes and photograph her, and distribute the photograph, not rape her.

Originally Posted by Eclipze

Engaging someone who is after you and someone who is not, is very different, since they have different piorities.

Don't know about you, but I would take the bodyguard first.. well, those military police didn't look completely competent anyway, I'm not surprized they didn't catch anyone..

[Befgrek]

Originally Posted by Eclipze

Nina was't tied up-side-down on one leg when she engaged the "secret police" who were after Mashiro, and not her.

Engaging someone who is after you and someone who is not, is very different, since they have different piorities.

Plus the fact that Arika was taken by surprise (ie stepping on a trap and leaving her in a compromising position) doesn't exactly make a favourable position to counter-attack.

Not forgetting....Nina is more well-trained in combat than Arika. She, afterall, had more experience than Arika.

I actually thought I was a bit too harsh on Arika after submitting that, since she was tied up and all. However, after reading your post I realized you were right, she was only tied up in one leg, meaning when she was back down on the ground, she had her legs free. Her arms where hold up by that guy... but he only used one hand. Now, he's either seriously (Haruka-class?) strong, or/and Arika is obviously not trying very hard to get free. (She's too busy blushing, trying her best to look like a rape victim from some creepy doujin... I wonder how many doujins that scene will spawn, on another note.) This seems to me to be very un-Arika-like. If anyone would be able to put up a fight against these thugs, I'd think it'd be Arika.

Now, my point with this is basically that this is just one stupid and not well thought out plot device to have Sergay turn up just in time and save the day, making Arika swoon over him some more. Of course, the main reason why I think this is probably because I really don't like where the show is going in this aspect at the moment. I'm usually pretty good at accepting all those "not very realistic" plot devices in anime. So don't take my rants too seriously, as they are mostly written to vent my frustration.

[kazekiri]

Originally Posted by Eclipze

Technically, they are similar. They have some kind of a "contract".

Right, but my point was that the term Child hadn't been seen yet in Otome and as far as we know, they don't exist in this world (Gakutenou being a Slave). So how does Miyu know the term and why does Shizuru recognize it?

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by kazekiri

Right, but my point was that the term Child hadn't been seen yet in Otome and as far as we know, they don't exist in this world (Gakutenou being a Slave). So how does Miyu know the term and why does Shizuru recognize it?

This is the first time I believed the term "child" was used in this series. And since it is use by Miyu, it raise a host of question about who Miyu is.

[scribbly]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata

The other interesting thing is the two babies in the room with Rena both have the same colouring. The baby Mashiro had purple/lilac coloured hair - hair colour as a baby an adult can be different but it wouldn't change in a few days. So, 3 different babies then. And how much of a co-incidence is it that Rena and the queen both had similar coloured babies at the same time?

There was more than 1 baby in the room? where? As far as I can recall, the only baby we ever see in the hands of the queen and rena is the brown haired one she put in the capsule. The purply haired baby we only see with the prime minister. (Please correct me if I"m wrong). Really, we can say we never see a purply haired baby in the castle.

Does anyone ever say that Rena actually had a child? They certainly accept its possibility... no one except the nanny could have known that Rena gave Arika's pendant to the princess, so they could assume Rena gave it to her own child which could have been born later. People know she had a lover, and such things naturally come from love. This could lead people liek Sergey and Natsiki to accept the idea that Rena is Arika's mother... but it would still be new information to them. "OMG, Rena survived the castle attack and at some point had a kid, and here it is!" The only thing, I think, which might support a valid assumption of 2 babies at one time, is that Arika's granny gave her the princess's birthday but told her her mother was still alive. (Who wants to suggest Rena had the king's baby instead of the queen...)

Of coure all of this is moot if somewhere in this show there are two babies in one room.

In the end, the only thing we can trust are flashbacks... The flash backs tell us Rena sent a baby down the river with the pendant (arika, princess or not, chances are high it's arika). The prime mistister (or whatever his title was) held up an infant and proclaimed it to be the princess Mashiro. And Nina as some point, when very young, looked up and saw a woman who is shadowed but possibly rena.

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by Preston

Don't know about you, but I would take the bodyguard first.. well, those military police didn't look completely competent anyway, I'm not surprized they didn't catch anyone..

sorry, I dont get what you're saying...Arika didnt see the thugs running at her, it was after she got trapped that they were seen by her.

Originally Posted by Befgrek

she was only tied up in one leg, meaning when she was back down on the ground, she had her legs free. Her arms where hold up by that guy... but he only used one hand. Now, he's either seriously (Haruka-class?) strong, or/and Arika is obviously not trying very hard to get free. (She's too busy blushing, trying her best to look like a rape victim from some creepy doujin... I wonder how many doujins that scene will spawn, on another note.) This seems to me to be very un-Arika-like. If anyone would be able to put up a fight against these thugs, I'd think it'd be Arika.

Let me clarify something: I dont watch raws, and this is no exception. The only raw I have watched/downloaded is the final plus for GSD, but thats besides the point.

The reason I was talking about the trap thing was that it was explained by someone, and that there was a screenshot of it.

Ok, you know very well that Arika wasn't the usual *genki* Arika, right? On top of that, she was taken by surprise by the trap and the thugs, so that adds more psychological damage than you'd think a regular "genki Arika" would take.

A girl, who has new found confusion as to wether Rena is her mother, with the Sergey affection that she herself is unsure of, being less energetic than usual because of the affection with Sergey.

Now, add the fact that she gets ambushed by 4 aggressive males who threaten to rape/dis-credit her doesn't exactly make Arika a favourable contendor to counter the situation.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Befgrek

I actually thought I was a bit too harsh on Arika after submitting that, since she was tied up and all. However, after reading your post I realized you were right, she was only tied up in one leg, meaning when she was back down on the ground, she had her legs free. Her arms where hold up by that guy... but he only used one hand. Now, he's either seriously (Haruka-class?) strong, or/and Arika is obviously not trying very hard to get free.

Do we have any evidence up until now, that Otome who haven't activated their gem have any superhuman powers? As I understand it, the Otome needs her masters authorization before she can use those freakish powers, as some sort of safety mechanism so that the Otome can't go on a rampage without her masters consent. There wouldn't be much use for the safety mechanism, if an Otome who went postal had "The Hulk"-like strength or attack power even in an unauthorized state. So unless I'm shown otherwise (somthing like a non-activated Otome bending a steel pipe or lifting a car), I think Arika without an activated robe has more or less just the strengh of a 15 year old girl. Given the emotional turmoil she's currently going through, I don't find it all that unbelieavable that she got overpowered by 4 thugs.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by scribbly

There was more than 1 baby in the room? where? As far as I can recall, the only baby we ever see in the hands of the queen and rena is the brown haired one she put in the capsule. The purply haired baby we only see with the prime minister. (Please correct me if I"m wrong). Really, we can say we never see a purply haired baby in the castle.

Nope two babies. When the granny starts, we see Rena give 1 baby to a women, then she looks at the casket and we see another baby. Hence 2 babies.

I still believe that Arika isn't the queen. As Natsuki noted, fate brought both Mashiro and Arika together and the contract was made not by concidence which is why she's allowing it to be. Arika is the protector and Mashiro is the queen.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Do we have any evidence up until now, that Otome who haven't activated their gem have any superhuman powers?

Well, in ep 2 Nina is surprised that Arika can outrun her.....and when she fights the royal gourd she uses some sort of flashy technique.....when Haruka falls and manages to survive the fall.....and that's about it.

IMO it's simply that Arika would fall for such a trap in the first place.

Originally Posted by Preston

She may believe she is telling the truth, but could have been lied to for some unknown purpose. Perhaps Rena wanted to create false trails protecting the real princess. Who knows? Not us, yet..

I thinck we'll find just how much wait her words and credibility have in the next ep.......I personaly thinck Arika's the princess

Originally Posted by scribbly

There was more than 1 baby in the room? where?

Rena's baby is the one she is holding at the begining of the flash back and which she hands to the maid (don't know were people the hole quen thing since she's wearing the same outfit as the old women in the background) then the camera sweaches to the capsule were we see a baby, after wich the camera flashes to Rena and then to the old women (we can see the maid in the background with the baby)

Someone here mentioned something about a jewl near Nagi's throne (and that it could be the end resault of Swartz reserch) ......to me it looks like a projector...

Next ep looks intresting ..... ArikaXSergey beter end bad ..... the new op probably will involve some story spoilers (like Arika = real princess) guesing that's why they dind't use it now .....

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII

Well, in ep 2 Nina is surprised that Arika can outrun her.....and when she fights the royal gourd she uses some sort of flashy technique.....when Haruka falls and manages to survive the fall.....and that's about it.

IMO it's simply that Arika would fall for such a trap in the first place.

I thought of some of the points you mentioned prior to my previous post as well, but was too lazy to comment on them unless someone raised those issues which you just did. Basically it comes down to can I come up with a non-technology answer to those feats, within the series bounds? So let's try.

Arika outrunning Nina: Nina is the #1 Coral in her class, so I figured she'd have to have top scores in her physical prowess as well. Her surprise could have simply been "How come this common girl from god knows where managed to outrun me, the best in my year?" Besides, at that point Arika shouldn't have had any active nanites in her system. If this were the case, then I'm sure Youko would have mentioned it sometime during her examination.

Nina going Hadoken on the guard: Here I concede that it could have been an Otome related technique, especially since she used a similiar (though much flashier and powerful) move during her first match with Arika. I could try to argue that it might "just" be a Ki attack based on martial arts rather than on nanite technology, but since I can't back this up with anything and no further evidence to other sources of power have been mentioned, it seems that at least some Otome attack techniques can be used in normal mode.

Haruka falling down the cliff: Frankly, I'm not quite sure how serious this scene can be taken. The whole action was played mostly for comic relief and as a demonstration of Haruka's hotheaded approach to things. You could say that she was protected by the same kind of comedy plot shield(tm), that saves the life of Wile.E.Coyote from Road Runner whenever he messes up. If I do take the scene at face value, I guess that the before mentioned enhanced damage sturdiness provided by the nanites does actually benefit the Otome in non-authorized mode as well, to a certain degree.

So if we take these cases into consideration, there is indeed the posibility that an Otome does retain some of her nanite powers even in normal mode. Whether that's enough for a confused 15 year old girl to overpower 4 grownup men, is a judgement call everyone has to make for himself. As for myself, at this moment in time, I'm willing to give Sunrise the benefit of the doubt in this particular case and trust that they know what they're doing unless something more outrageous concerning that matter happens.

[ChaosWing]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

This is the first time I believed the term "child" was used in this series. And since it is use by Miyu, it raise a host of question about who Miyu is.

The original. I still don't believe that this is an "alternate reality", in fact I never have. The carnival was every 300 years, don't forget that, and just because in MH they broke the cycle by destroying the star doesn't mean that something still won't happen the next time around. Heck, destroying the star could be why they had to leave Earth in the first place - and you can't deny that this current series' people came from Earth considering it's been mentioned at least once already.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

And Alyssa somehow evolved into a birdy with Mikoto into a cat...and everyone else looks the same and have almost the same relationships they had 300 years ago.....

As Nagi said, by destroying the star, all they did was just remove the same cycle that always kept repeating over and over again. Now the future is just uncertain and no one can predict it. It doesn't mean the coming of the christ was inevitable or something liket that.

And I'm pretty sure the world in Mai Hime has the same technology as we do and we do not have space faring technology.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

And Alyssa somehow evolved into a birdy with Mikoto into a cat...and everyone else looks the same and have almost the same relationships they had 300 years ago.....

As Nagi said, by destroying the star, all they did was just remove the same cycle that always kept repeating over and over again. Now the future is just uncertain and no one can predict it. It doesn't mean the coming of the christ was inevitable or something liket that.

And I'm pretty sure the world in Mai Hime has the same technology as we do and we do not have space faring technology.

But if MO is the future of MH, then it is possible. Althought MO would be considerablely much more into the future.

Some intresting Notes,

- In MO, it has been 300 years since the war of the 12 kings and since the founding of the Otomes.
- 12 kings, 12 Himes, very intresting.

[ChaosWing]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

And Alyssa somehow evolved into a birdy with Mikoto into a cat...and everyone else looks the same and have almost the same relationships they had 300 years ago.....

And I'm pretty sure the world in Mai Hime has the same technology as we do and we do not have space faring technology.

It's a known fact that Sunrise is re-using character designs and names and even family relationships but that doesn't mean it's the same people or even distant ancestors. Most of the current character plots themselves have nothing to do with the previous series in my opinion except for one, Miyu. Allyssa is dead, you would call it a shock that Miyu crafted something like that bird and named it Allyssa? You do remember she was/is a cyborg in MH, correct?

Also, Earth didn't have that advanced of technology? Again, Miyu was a Cyborg and a very advanced one at that which was created by the Earth you say wasn't that far advanced in technology.

Don't forget, it's quite clear they've inhabited the current planet for at least a couple hundred years and who knows how long before that MH would have occurred. I just am not going to toss it up to being an alternate reality as easily as everyone else is, especially with that shoddy bit of "counter evidence" you supplied.

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

As Nagi said, by destroying the star, all they did was just remove the same cycle that always kept repeating over and over again. Now the future is just uncertain and no one can predict it. It doesn't mean the coming of the christ was inevitable or something liket that.

Now, this I completely agree with.

[ChaosWing]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

But if MO is the future of MH, then it is possible. Althought MO would be considerablely much more into the future.

Some intresting Notes,

- In MO, it has been 300 years since the war of the 12 kings and since the founding of the Otomes.
- 12 kings, 12 Himes, very intresting.

I completely forgot about that war of the 12 kings. Yes, I was thinking it is the very distant future. Where did it say it was 300 years since the war, and is it exactly 300 years?

[Xellos-_^]

A odd idea just occure to me.

Spoiler:

If Arika really is the Princess and somehow the people in Windbloom found out about it. As much as Arika wouldn't like it to happen Mashiro, who is not exactly on everybodys likeable leader list. What if mashiro then gets kick out of Windbloom and she gets pickup by either Aswald or Schwartz and they transform her into the Dark Otome we see in the op?

Chaoswing, It was mention in one of the earlier eps and defintely in Ep8. When Arika was researchng into how to null her contract with mashiro.

[ChaosWing]

That certainly is an odd idea.

[Befgrek]

Originally Posted by Oberon

So if we take these cases into consideration, there is indeed the posibility that an Otome does retain some of her nanite powers even in normal mode. Whether that's enough for a confused 15 year old girl to overpower 4 grownup men, is a judgement call everyone has to make for himself. As for myself, at this moment in time, I'm willing to give Sunrise the benefit of the doubt in this particular case and trust that they know what they're doing unless something more outrageous concerning that matter happens.

Well written. I just have one minor nitpick: It's not really four men, but one who's physically assaulting her. The othe ones are just standing on the side, laughing. And, he's only using one hand to trap her two arms. (Which, by the way, is impossible. Slipping out of such a grip with at least one arm is something anyone can do. Unless the difference in strengh is like... huge.)

If her feet are free, there should be no problem whatsoever to get out of that grip, and use her faster-than-Nina speed to get the hell out of there. But maybe they tied them. Guess we'll have to wait for the next episode to find out. Who knows, maybe she'll actually try to put up a fight and get out on her on then. (Yeah right, with Super-Sergay lurking around in the neighborhood, ready to save little girls from evil assaulters? Who am I trying to kid?)

I just realized the "Well written." in the beginning of this post might have sounded like an insult when it was followed by a sentence with a slight odour of sarcasm. That was not my point. I really thought it was good argumentation.

On a totally different matter: Yeah, I wonder what "child" Miyu was talking about... Are the slaves that Aswald has really officially called slaves? Wasn't it just Haruka who called Gakutenou "slave" out of ignorance? My point is: could Miyu be referring to the Aswald "slaves"?

Xellos-_^ : Awesome idea. I'd love to see Mashiro kicking some serious butt. (She looked cool as a HiME in Mai HiME!) Though I think it's... not very realistic at this point. (Still waiting for something in this show to surprise me...)

[SoldierOfDarkness]

It's a known fact that Sunrise is re-using character designs and names and even family relationships but that doesn't mean it's the same people or even distant ancestors. Most of the current character plots themselves have nothing to do with the previous series in my opinion except for one, Miyu. Allyssa is dead, you would call it a shock that Miyu crafted something like that bird and named it Allyssa? You do remember she was/is a cyborg in MH, correct?

Also, Earth didn't have that advanced of technology? Again, Miyu was a Cyborg and a very advanced one at that which was created by the Earth you say wasn't that far advanced in technology.

Note I said space faring technology, like hyperspace or warp drives and all that stuff. Not cybernetics or robotics.

Don't forget, it's quite clear they've inhabited the current planet for at least a couple hundred years and who knows how long before that MH would have occurred. I just am not going to toss it up to being an alternate reality as easily as everyone else is, especially with that shoddy bit of "counter evidence" you supplied.

I think we both misunderstood each other here. I am in no disagreement that the two worlds "could" be connected, what I am in disagreement is that I thought you said the characters from Mai Hime are the same with Mai Otome.

It would be plausible that Mai Otome in fact takes centuries after the events of Mai Hime however, to say that the star resulted in the destruction of the Earth is incorrect as the star itself was the one instigating all that destruction. It was merely a carnival for that Lord Obsidian.

To have Miyu be the exact same one as the Miyu from Mai Hime? I have no problem with that, she's a cyborg, they live forever. Not to mention she sees Arika as a golden light much the same way she saw Alyssa but I forgot which episode that was.