2011-07-18, 01:10 | Link #23244 |
The True Culprit
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"We want money."
"What's the point? Ange's too young and your other kid ran out. No money for you says GOOOLDSMITH." "Fuck." ~ "We want money." "Only if your kid is the next Head. What's this? You didn't bring one? Ooooh, too baaad." "Fuck." ~ "We want money." "Only if your kid is marrying a servant!" "Fuck." ~ And so on and so forth.
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2011-07-18, 01:20 | Link #23245 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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That can only be possible if they were planning on getting Kinzo's full blown inheritance right then and there, while it is true Kinzo's health was suspicious and they knew he'd die soon, I'm pretty sure they only came to that family conference with the intention of threatening Krauss, Battler should play no part in this and it would actually be a little more limiting on them if he was there(well, not really, he'd just be a nuisance like the rest of the cousin's at that time).
No relative actually had to balls to boldly think they were able to get the inheritance that day, if they were really etching to get the inheritance that bad, they'd have made Ange go whether she was sick or not. |
2011-07-18, 01:22 | Link #23246 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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On an unrelated note... I'm just toying with a possibility here, but was there anything in the wording of Claire's story in EP7 that definitively established that Yasu was a working as a maid and not, say, a butler? If I were Genji, and I had an ambiguously-gendered child who I was worried would be assaulted by an old man, I'd seriously consider raising that child as a boy.
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2011-07-18, 01:24 | Link #23247 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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The only possible wording that might even closely relate to the gender of Lion was Bernkastel saying something like ''I wonder if I search through the fragments I'll find a world where the tragedy repeats itself with Lion'', in reference to Kinzo impregnating his daughter. But it's still pretty shady because I'm sure there's room for it to be interpreted as simple sex and not impregnation.(trying to find the direct quote cause I'm sure I am leaving out a very important detail) |
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2011-07-18, 01:35 | Link #23249 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Oh and ignore Bernkastel's fragment comment, after re-reading it it is definitely not clear enough to reference pregnancy. |
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2011-07-18, 01:41 | Link #23250 | ||
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Also, AuraTwilight, I still don't follow. Most of the adults seemed to honestly already suspect Kinzo was dead, or, if he wasn't, was so sick that Kratsuhi could lock him in the study to keep him from participating, anyway. I can't deny the possibility that Kyrie / Rudolf wanted a child there as part of some gambit, but I honestly have a hard time seeing what that gambit might've reasonably been. |
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2011-07-18, 01:45 | Link #23251 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Well, I'm not particularly interested in Yasu's real gender here. What I want to establish is this: are we really correct in thinking that Kanon was created from scratch when Yasu gave up on Battler? Or was Yasu effectively Kanon the whole time?
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2011-07-18, 02:07 | Link #23252 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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I believe that Yasu had the physical appearance of Kanon the whole time, not completely meaning he had a penis, but just that s/he at least looked like Kanon, but the arguments I gave had nothing to do with this. It's a good point, when I get the time I'll reread EP 7 again to see if her job is ever referenced.
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2011-07-18, 02:07 | Link #23253 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Besides, if it was an all-girl orphanage, why didn't the Witch Hunters latch onto that and make the irregularity with Kanon an issue? That would show up even if you assume Fukuin was bribed to create records for him.
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2011-07-18, 02:37 | Link #23254 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Actually, wait, weren't the female servants wondering why Yasu got his/her own room while they were crammed up in one themselves? Wouldn't that mean Yasu would have to share a room with the girls?
I mean, the anger and complaints that seeped out of them seemed to imply that ''It wasn't fair that she got special treatment'', but if Yasu was a butler and thus HAD to have a different room, I'm sure they wouldn't have complained about her as much. |
2011-07-18, 08:13 | Link #23255 |
Zero of the roulette
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Finland
Age: 30
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Seems like I wrote a novel, but bear with it:
I personally think Yasu was originally a boy, named Ushiromiya Lion, as that's been hinted more with the man from 19 years ago. In the fall his genitals got damaged to the point that they had to be surgically removed, which I think also prevented some essential hormones from being produced. I don't know details about that, but being originally female isn't out of the question if the removal prevents breasts from growing. Or she might be naturally flat-chested, who knows. I hadn't thought about Fukuin only having girls, but that does make sense. Another clue for Kanon being fake, or at least not being who he says he is. Well I say she was originally a boy, but had to be introduced as girl to get accepted to Fukuin, and because Kinzo knew his child was a boy, to present her as a girl would serve to hide her, right? She got the name Yasuda Sayo, and the "blessed name" Shannon. I agree Kanon could be how Yasu normally looks like, though then I wonder how Jessica doesn't realize it, as she knew Yasu. To her, she was probably Shannon. Maybe make-up and hair-dye or something was enough. Well, her original hair colour is another mystery. Judging from Kinzo and Beatrice, she might have either the white/mint hair of Clair or Beatrice's golden hair, maybe black, gray or brown. The golden hair would be another clue for Kinzo though, so it might be unlikely. Well, if she does dress up as Beatrice, she does need to have long hair, but it can be a wig too. On Yasu's motive, at least if she really intended to blow the island, saying her motive is the love trial isn't all there is to it. Couldn't it be said, that the creation of the catbox itself is Yasu's motive? Creating the Golden Land where everyone is happy and every love is possible, one where Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice can coexist, have complete souls and ability to make love. She might have pitied/loathed the current situation Ushiromiya family was, and wanted them to have a happier story. She also promised to bring Maria to the Golden Land, and she said she keeps her promises. The epitaph murders are something she wanted to do before dying, as she loved mysteries, and used them as a way to reach out to Battler, maybe wanting herself to be stopped. The message bottle stories make the family conference look like a bloodshed to the public though, and not a happy story for the family. Well, a sappy story might not be taken seriously. The murders in the stories might be for the intent of making people feel sorry for the family. The stories also include clues towards the person and intent behind the murders. So rather than forcing happiness on people, they'd need to understand the intentions first. But why didn't Yasu just give the Ushiromiya family the gold if she pitied them? Also I'm not entirely bought on Yasu actually wanting to kill everyone, with fake murder theories and all. But if the intent really was to have her as a real killer, then this is a motive I could think of. Does anyone have guesses about the "lesser, but strange incidents" that would have happened if Battler had come one year earlier or later? I have some doubts about EP3 too. Beatrice promised she wouldn't continue the killings if the epitaph was solved, so the culprit might have been Eva after all. It would be cool though, if Yasu was really always the killer in the question arcs. Will does say for the 2nd-6th twilight that no falsehoods of their final moments were told. If taking on the 'final moments' part, Rosa and Maria were finally killed by Beatrice, not Eva-Beatrice. For Kyrie, Rudolf and Hideyoshi we could say that Eva-Beatrice didn't kill them either, as it was the Chiesters that shot them, even though it sounds silly. For Krauss and Natsuhi's murder, I though of a theory of George letting Shannon in from the window, jumping out, and Shannon closing the window behind him. Then she proceeded to murder Krauss and Natsuhi while Eva was away. I don't know how Shannon could choke them both, but I think it was implied Umineko was more of a logic puzzle where things like that don't count. This theory says obvious culprit refers to Shannon instead of Eva, so could obvious culprit mean the overall culprit? Eva poisoning the coffee is easier explanation though, but I wanted to see how this holds up. After bringing the corpses outside she goes to the parlor with George, kills him and fakes again. And then kills Nanjo, leads Jessica around etc. I also had a fun thought of Kanon telling Jessica the truth when talking to her in the end of EP3. |
2011-07-18, 09:25 | Link #23256 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
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As for Kanon's hair, if he did in fact disguise himself as many people, short hair is ideal for wigs, even Shannon's hair is a little longer than his.
The ''lesser, but strange'' incident would probably be a messed up relationship. ''Sorry George, I love 'ya and all, but my man Battler's back! I said I loved him more than I love you now so.....yeah'' ''And uh, yeah Jessica, I know we've only been going out for about 25 minutes, but see my man Battler is back! Sorry 'bout that no hard feelings right?''. Either that or she would have completely retired to the successful persona, and the result after Battler coming would be a simple lovers quarrel. Kanon can pass off as a girl, should be about as tall as Shannon, seems to be acknowleged by Jessica's class mates, is seen by Battler, when Shannon and George went out, I'm pretty sure no one other than George even said anything about her. |
2011-07-18, 09:53 | Link #23257 | |||||
The True Culprit
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A better explanation for why Yasu is portrayed as a girl is because her junk was mangled to such a degree that she as given a false vagina out of what was left. It's happened before in real life. Quote:
It is most certainly, absolutely not blonde. I don't know why people keep thinking this since it creates a massive goddamn plothole. Quote:
A good explanation for why the killings continued with the Yasu theory is that Eva didn't meet Yasu at the VIP Room, and so Yasu never figured out the Epitaph was solved. Quote:
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2011-07-18, 10:42 | Link #23258 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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As for hair-colours, other than Bice and Beatrice-2, I'm sure everyone has/had black/dark-brown hair and the colours we see in the SN are just for style purposes. As for Yasu, well, she's definitely got to look Japanese, since I'm sure that's how Shannon and Kanon look and no one ever mentioned they looked like foreigners - although, when Kinzo met Yasu (disguised as Beatrice) he said her eyes look like the previous Beatrice's (there's also Battler who, in EP4, said he recognised Beatrice by her face). So, I wonder if he said that simply because she was disguised as Beatrice, or because she's got blue eyes. The thing I'm sure is that she's got to have slanted eyes, because otherwise I'm not sure how she could have played Shannon and Kanon. Well, I've met Japanese people of mixed ethnicities whom, at first, I couldn't tell if they were Japanese or not, because their eyes didn't look particularly slanted and in fact it seemed as if I was speaking to a white person who looked somewhat Japaneseish. But, again, no one ever stated Shannon and/or Kanon looking foreign or part-foreign. In countries like Japan these things get noticed easily.
But well, there are Japanese from mixed ethnicities that do have light-coloured hair and eyes. But, anyway, we've never seen a sprite for Yasu. So, it's impossible to say. We could go by Lion's design and say Yasu looks the same. But well, going by Lion's appearance and behaviour, she's technically an older Jessica, with a behaviour very similar to Natsuhi and dresses like Krauss (well, Lion's suit is more gender-neutral). So, Lion's appearance may be a construct to fit that story, and that's I can't simply say that's how Yasu looks like. Hopefully, we'll get a canon design for Yasu in the manga.
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2011-07-18, 11:50 | Link #23260 | ||
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What I meant was, what several other people already said, that it's rather strange (excluding every part of chance or luck) that Battler would return one way or the other. This is again one of those points which you can see with or without love, but the fact that Battler was present and Ange wasn't makes it at least known that it was announced beforehand. Of course we need Battler there for the island plot and somebody has to stay behind to serve as a reader-perspective...but I still think there are hints that point to something more.
In case of an inheritance battler involving the cousins, which was hinted at in EP4, Battler has better chances because he is already grown up. There should at least be some truth or at least chance of truth behind that scene, so if they were suspecting something like that Kyrie and Rudolph had sufficient reason to bring Battler along instead of Ange. Quote:
So I would dare to reason that a scene where Rudolph told Battler that he would probably be killed tonight certainly happened on the real Rokkenjima. Quote:
Spoiler for manga images EP3:
That does of course not mean that EP3 is true by any point. Beatrice was able to deny the very existence of "Eva-Beatrice" in the end, so it becomes clear that it never happened that way. Still Eva does possess both the ring of headship and knowledge about the hidden passages as well as the bomb...so I still find it plausible if her younger self meeting Beatrice and undergoing the crowning ritual of the witches was actually Eva meeting Yasu and obtaining everything from her. I still go by my point that, as implied by Kyrie in EP7, the basic plot of EP3 shows nothing but a possibility of what could have happened but is not the truth. |
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