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Old 2019-07-19, 18:01   Link #61
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Assertion that parent authority is or should be based on difference in power is totally wrong.
That's how it works in the real world. Only instead of better stats, the power comes from the fact a kid's livelihood depends on their parents as the latter are adults and have jobs and can support themselves while kids can't. So a parent / children relationship is not equal. And that's okay. That's how it has to be. The relationship becomes more equal as children grow up and slowly gain the ability to take care of themselves. As I said in my previous post, the game merely mirrors real life. In the real world, having a job and being adults give parents their power; in the game the power comes from better stats. That's all there is to it.

Quote:
It's wasted opportunity to flip things around
That would mess up their family dynamics. The game is just a tool to allow parents and kids to interact more but that's about it.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2019-07-19 at 18:15.
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Old 2019-07-19, 18:14   Link #62
arkhangelsk
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
And I don't see how giving parents some additional power is going to encourage them to abuse their kids. We haven't seen that much of an imbalance so far.
While the swords were a bit of a fluke (and even then the game could have been designed to allow her to pick up only one sword if that's the right thing to do), check out 06:32 in the first episode. Note how Mom has a STR of 401, and Kid has 3.

As for whether giving parents some additional power is going to encourage them to abuse their kids, the reality is that people are not that patient. Given the choice of actually reasoning it out and bulling a decision through on authority or power, many would do the latter, and ironically it is more likely if they are losing the reasoning fight. To say that additional power won't encourage anyone to abuse it is to deny human nature itself.

Quote:
Your ideal would only work if kids were completely reasonable and rational, mature, and experienced/knowledgeable.
In the concrete case, does Mom look "completely reasonable and rational, mature, experienced and knowledgeable"

Given the number of kids that go into psychoactive substances every year and the scientific research saying our brains don't fully mature until 25, I can't disagree. I can also remember exactly how much I loved doing homework... (I ended up disposing of almost all of it in recesses and lunch breaks...)

However, it is also true that parents intrude into a lot of decisions that are Minor (such as the appropriate room decoration) or Either Way (doctor or artist). Nor do they always recognize when they are not the experienced or knowledgeable one and Reverse that Deference, such as when they are thrown into a VR MMORPG.

Also, consider the entire theme of the recent manga-adapted anime Dekinai - if kids are to defer to adult authority figures, we won't even have this show. The two (later three) should just have worked on whatever they are good at, despite their dreams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
In the real world, having a job and being adults give parents their power; in the game the power comes from better stats. That's all there is to it.
The difference is, in the real world, the power differences are naturalistic and generally we want to be rid of them as fast as possible (albeit with delays for Quality - such as finishing University Education instead of rushing into the pool of jobs for High Schoolers). We don't positivistically insert a difference in a scenario where the kid can be equal to the parent (such as in a VR MMORPG)...
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Old 2019-07-19, 18:21   Link #63
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
The difference is, in the real world, the power differences are naturalistic
It doesn't change the fact that the relationship is not equal, and the game merely mirrors that in its own way. As such, whatever problems parents and their kids had will carry over from real life to the game. The game just allow them to interact more and hopefully that will help them forge a better relationship, but that's about it.
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Old 2019-07-19, 18:32   Link #64
Tenzen12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
That's how it works in the real world. Only instead of better stats, the power comes from the fact a kid's livelihood depends on their parents as the latter are adults and have jobs and can support themselves while kids can't. So a parent / children relationship is not equal. And that's okay. That's how it has to be. The relationship becomes more equal as children grow up and slowly gain the ability to take care of themselves. As I said in my previous post, the game merely mirrors real life. In the real world, having a job and being adults give parents their power; in the game the power comes from better stats. That's all there is to it.



That would mess up their family dynamics. The game is just a tool to allow parents and kids to interact more but that's about it.

Parent provide and raise for kid and children give parent respect and obedience in return. That's not about power. It's Traditional authority not charismatic, especially as in this case parent power and skills comes undeserved. They are not mutually exclusive, but they are certainly not interchangeable

And no it wouldn't "mess" family dynamic either. Different environment require different interactions. If my mom want to know something about computers or construction then she would defer my opinion as authority. That doesn't mean I would or could order her around as you apparently think for some reason, just that my mother knows and aknowledge my expertise.

And it's same in game. It's all about figuring where children and parent can be equal or even in advantage, because that's most important part that parent need to learn as their lead their offsprings to adulthood.
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Old 2019-07-19, 18:35   Link #65
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Parent provide and raise for kid and children give parent respect and obedience in return. That's not about power.
Call it whatever you want but it's power. It takes a great deal of responsibility to raise a child exactly because you have an extreme amount of power over their lives. Make a mistake and you could easily ruin their lives for good.

Quote:
And it's same in game
This isn't just a game. Maybe you miss it but it's being developed by the government. If they want to keep traditional family dynamics intact is probably because the game concept was the product of traditional minds to begin with.
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Old 2019-07-19, 18:44   Link #66
Tenzen12
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It's power that children gives them of their own free will at least from point they are old enough to have it. It's two way street.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
This isn't just a game. Maybe you miss it but it's being developed by the government. If they want to keep traditional family dynamics intact is probably because the game concept was the product of traditional minds to begin with.
And that's exactly why this game should foster healthy relationship that is not based on power alone, but mutual understanding, which is something tradional family dynamic can't work without or at least not correctly.
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Old 2019-07-19, 18:49   Link #67
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
It's power that children gives them of their own free will at least from point they are old enough to have it. It's two way street.
What can a 15 yo kid do about his parents being the one who call the shots? If they're horrible parents he might get the government on his side. But if that's not the case, if the parents are actually decent people, he can't just fuck off on his own even if he wanted too. That's not how things work.

Of course, I'm not saying parents have absolute power over the kids. All I'm saying is the relationship is not equal. It's only equal when the kids become adults.

Quote:
mutual understanding
You can't force mutual understanding. The game just gives parents and children a chance to interact more than they would normally do, but it's up to them to make something out of it. That's actually the point of the story.
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Old 2019-07-19, 18:57   Link #68
Tenzen12
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Whatever he or she want. Question is what parent can do to stop them, after all they are legally obliged provide for their offspring.

Quote:
Of course, I'm not saying parents have absolute power over the kids. All I'm saying is the relationship is not equal. It's only equal when the kids become adults.
And that's the FREAKING point here. Being adult is not about being 21 old. It's ability to make independent decisions and parent should foster it in areas they can... like in this damn game. Giving parents cheats will not help anyone, it doesn't make children respect their parent's more, obey them or in any way give them desire follow traditional family relationship. It does complete opposite.
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Last edited by Tenzen12; 2019-07-19 at 19:08.
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Old 2019-07-19, 19:00   Link #69
Tong
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Ok, but those were some great milf tiddies alright.
Hope the Bluray is uncensored!
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Old 2019-07-19, 19:01   Link #70
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Whatever he or she want. Question is what parent can do to stop them, after all they are legally obliged provide for their offspring.
Ground them. Don't allow them to use their computers. I don't know. There's so many things parents can do to make kids obey without overstepping their bounds. And generally, it's for the kids' own good.
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Old 2019-07-19, 19:13   Link #71
Tenzen12
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They can't really ground them though and whether child decide to follow ban on computer is also optional. There is no legal ground on either. Child obey these bans because he or she respect hierarchy given, but it is not enforceable in any other way then through physical strength.

Only real lever would be pocket money.
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Old 2019-07-19, 19:26   Link #72
BWTraveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
While the swords were a bit of a fluke (and even then the game could have been designed to allow her to pick up only one sword if that's the right thing to do), check out 06:32 in the first episode. Note how Mom has a STR of 401, and Kid has 3.

As for whether giving parents some additional power is going to encourage them to abuse their kids, the reality is that people are not that patient. Given the choice of actually reasoning it out and bulling a decision through on authority or power, many would do the latter, and ironically it is more likely if they are losing the reasoning fight. To say that additional power won't encourage anyone to abuse it is to deny human nature itself.



In the concrete case, does Mom look "completely reasonable and rational, mature, experienced and knowledgeable"

Given the number of kids that go into psychoactive substances every year and the scientific research saying our brains don't fully mature until 25, I can't disagree. I can also remember exactly how much I loved doing homework... (I ended up disposing of almost all of it in recesses and lunch breaks...)

However, it is also true that parents intrude into a lot of decisions that are Minor (such as the appropriate room decoration) or Either Way (doctor or artist). Nor do they always recognize when they are not the experienced or knowledgeable one and Reverse that Deference, such as when they are thrown into a VR MMORPG.

Also, consider the entire theme of the recent manga-adapted anime Dekinai - if kids are to defer to adult authority figures, we won't even have this show. The two (later three) should just have worked on whatever they are good at, despite their dreams.



The difference is, in the real world, the power differences are naturalistic and generally we want to be rid of them as fast as possible (albeit with delays for Quality - such as finishing University Education instead of rushing into the pool of jobs for High Schoolers). We don't positivistically insert a difference in a scenario where the kid can be equal to the parent (such as in a VR MMORPG)...
I would have to disagree about parents having power directly encouraging them to bully their kids. Yes it happens. But by that standard simply BEING a parent encourages them to abuse their children.

As for deference, I was more referring to immediate things, choices about what the kid's going to do in a particular night or yes, what they can and can't listen to, watch, put on their walls, etc. Yes there are certainly times when the parents need to give their kids some freedom, but there's also plenty of times when kids will want to do things or pursue interests that really shouldn't be pursued, and a lot of the time the worse the interest or path, the more likely the kid is not even going to bother listening to any sort of reasonable explanations of why the parent wants them to change their minds. When it comes to plans for the future, that's a different matter in which I think both sides need to be very serious and very open to each others' viewpoints.

As I said, I think this game is supposed to be a two-way thing. I mean, just look at the relationships we have so far: a child who fought with her mother and isn't willing to forgive, a son who's desperate to get some more distance from his overprotective and doting mother, and a girl whose mother doesn't even have time to participate in the mother-daughter-bonding game she's having her play. The first I imagine the problem's at least 60% on Wise's side; the second I'd say Mama needs to work at least as much as Masato; and the third is pretty much a matter of parental neglect. Unless they present Masato as completely in the wrong, I'd say this show is encouraging both parties to improve themselves.

And Tenzen, as far as the parent not having the power to prevent a 15-year-old from using his/her computer, you have to consider that at that age, it's technically not his/her computer and if the kid disobeys the parents are fully within their rights to take the computer away and lock it up somewhere the kid can't get to, or even follow the example of a father a few years ago who got tired of his daughter's unfair slandering of him on Facebook using the laptop he personally bought her, and so made a video of himself shooting several holes in said laptop. He was ruled to have had the right to do this with the laptop he'd bought. Frankly, I wouldn't call that abuse but I would say that the father had all the power in that situation.
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Old 2019-07-19, 19:42   Link #73
Ichinotachi
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While I'm happy that this series is getting this kind of attention and discussion, this went to a whole different level with this conversation.

Is quite interesting how such a simple series that's trying to show the dynamics of a family is generating this type of debate.
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Old 2019-07-19, 20:55   Link #74
Master_Yoma
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Mamako picking a party members and treating it like a marriage interview but at less Wise know how to get into the party

Spoiler for Just do think about it:
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Old 2019-07-19, 21:55   Link #75
BWTraveller
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Well, since it's a virtual slime in a digital system, I'd assume it's programmed that way. Either the slime only melts girls' clothes or it only melts moms' clothes. This game was made to help mothers and their children overcome problems in their relationships, but no one said the programmers weren't at least a little bit perverted.
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Old 2019-07-19, 22:53   Link #76
rladls2121
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Join Date: May 2014
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Damn it Shirase, you should have informed me beforehand!
Now it's getting out of control!
lol.

No, no, no.
Oh no.

Last edited by rladls2121; 2019-07-19 at 23:37. Reason: This feels actually wrong.
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Old 2019-07-20, 00:54   Link #77
Tenzen12
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It's not Shirase, though, it's Shiraase,
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Old 2019-07-20, 01:13   Link #78
rladls2121
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Shiraase, how dare you.
You trapped people in this twisted game just so that everyone will get closer relationship with their mom?
What kind of game are you playing at?
Riiiiight this is that kind of game, right?

Why do I have a feeling that Shiraase, damn it whatever her name is going to be the final boss?

I feel as if this series in some aspect feels kind of original.
It is not only the Mom part of this series, and Masato isn't the only one with a mom.
The heroines also have theirs.

This episode actually surprised me more than I imagined.
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Old 2019-07-20, 01:59   Link #79
Kazu-kun
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^ Shirase's just government employee. She didn't plan any of this.

I'm surprised a lot of people missed the little detail about this game being development by the government. It's not some shady organization but the Japanese government themselves who are trying to improve the relationships between parents and children.
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Old 2019-07-20, 02:02   Link #80
Tenzen12
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>Japanese governments in anime
>Not shady organization

Pick one.
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