Ore no Imouto - Light Novel & Manga Discussion Thread

[GVN.Chaos]

Actually, I think she is telling the truth at this point. Or rather, she is both loving and hating him at the same time.

[Wilshere]

I'm surprised that they missed her first ''confession'' in S1. It would've made things somewhat clearer.

Edit: Just like I said and nearly everyone repeats, for those who found the ending surprising,re-watch/read and connect the dots and you'll get a clearer vision.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by iMACobra

Ok, I understand you all but what happens in the 3 OVA specials is what really bugs me.

They're not really "OVA specials", they're just the three final episodes: Episodes 14 to 16, the finale. These last episodes will simply finish the story and, as already announced, they're adapting the novels all the way to the end.

I'm still trying to guess exactly how they'll adapt the novels, but I'm supposing they might make Episode 14 a Kuroneko episode, Episode 15 follow the Christmas Date through to the confession and maybe the recordings, and Episode 16 be the confrontation, wedding and epilogue. They could throw a little bit more from Volume 11 into Episode 16 to help add a bit more context there too. I'm guessing that Kanako's scenes will be reserved for an audio drama with the last BD, and the "futon date" will be cut or only vaguely alluded to.

Obviously, though, these are just my rough guesses, and we'll see how they do it in August.

[Drakkar77]

Originally Posted by Wilshere

I'm surprised that they missed her first ''confession'' in S1. It would've made things somewhat clearer.

Edit: Just like I said and nearly everyone repeats, for those who found the ending surprising,re-watch/read and connect the dots and you'll get a clearer vision.

Agreed, I went back and checked the episode in question, #6 if I'm not mistaken, after I posted the above and I was surprised when all she asked him to do was play Siscalypse with her. It was pretty disappointing.

[Drakkar77]

Originally Posted by GVN.Chaos

Actually, I think she is telling the truth at this point. Or rather, she is both loving and hating him at the same time.

I don't think she every really hates Kyousuke but rather the laziness that he begins displaying, which is the same thing that starts the cold war between them. The depths of her love becomes more obvious when the reader finally gets to hear the messages to herself on the ipod recordings in the last volume.

I'm not saying it isn't possible she both hates and loves him but I think she loves him so much that she's sees his laziness as him slipping further and further away from her both romantically and brotherly. Unless you've lost someone you have extremely strong feels for, it's very hard to imagine how just that sense of loss can make you have feelings that seem like hate welling up inside you. It's the worst feeling of dread imaginable. Living for that many years with that feeling, I've very surprise Kirino didn't have a mental collapse. Even while suppressing it, it eats away at you...she is surprisingly strong willed.

[Wilshere]

Originally Posted by Drakkar77

Agreed, I went back and checked the episode in question, #6 if I'm not mistaken, after I posted the above and I was surprised when all she asked him to do was play Siscalypse with her. It was pretty disappointing.

It's episode 5 but you're close

[Drakkar77]

Originally Posted by Wilshere

It's episode 5 but you're close

Thanks, bah 10 character min

Edit: @Wilshere, I was thinking about it and I don't recall any retaliation on Kirino's part for the incident involved in your avatar's photo. Other than incident w/ Ayase, and before they dated, were there even any more where he was in physical contact so closely in the story? I can't recall, there was the fake date wasn't there? I need to go back and read that. Given that she's a tsundere she seems to enjoy physical contact with Kyousuke a little too much in the story not to tip her hand. Wow, it's amazing what you finally notice when you know the end...

[Wilshere]

Originally Posted by Drakkar77

Thanks, bah 10 character min

Edit: @Wilshere, I was thinking about it and I don't recall any retaliation on Kirino's part for the incident involved in your avatar's photo. Other than incident w/ Ayase, and before they dated, were there even any more where he was in physical contact so closely in the story? I can't recall, there was the fake date wasn't there? I need to go back and read that. Given that she's a tsundere she seems to enjoy physical contact with Kyousuke a little too much in the story not to tip her hand. Wow, it's amazing what you finally notice when you know the end...

Volume 8 Chapter 3 when she told him about her anime, followed by the awkward fall, her hugging him when on the bike(she had to,but she did like it) and the holding hands when they arrived for Kanako's performance.

[Sakuratsuki]

Re-reading at the moment (volume 3). The last chapter of volume 2. Damn, why didn't they animate that scene........

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Sakura_Tsuki

Re-reading at the moment (volume 3). The last chapter of volume 2. Damn, why didn't they animate that scene........

Ah yes, that scene is incredibly cute. And looking back now, she was pretty honest in that scene... only to drop back into tsundere mode the second after.

[Wilshere]

Originally Posted by Sakura_Tsuki

Re-reading at the moment (volume 3). The last chapter of volume 2. Damn, why didn't they animate that scene........

I'm sure she would've won on the fans by just her being honest and well, showing her cute side. She would've gained a lot of love as they do for her now,that the series is coming to a conclusion.

[iMACobra]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Edit 3: The part with Kuroneko also makes no sense either. She's not going to tear up the Destiny Record if she finds out Kyousuke likes Kirino; her original drawing was of the two of them together after all. No, the whole thing makes no sense.

This was referring to the early "supposed" spoilers before the last LN came out. So was Kuroneko's act of tearing up her Destiny Record really out-of-character?

Originally Posted by Vexx

This little bullet list is just the start of the dozens of reasons the author fails if this is indeed the ending. A writer *has* to resolve any trainwreck issues or the tall tale fractures.



Um ... no. He could have repaired his sibling relationship with Kirino and chosen Kuroneko or Ayase as a romantic partner. That would actually fit the story as it was developed. Reading through the volumes, he either failed to connect the dots to this ending or he connected the dots to a different ending. I'm not against a Kirino ending as such - I simply don't think he covered the bases in making it a plausible ending. It requires utterly jerking around the positions of several major characters with no transition.


I'm in this camp unless we get some VERY good buildup to the end - that the writer has utterly no experience with real people much less romantic love - and possibly doesn't know how to construct a story that actually connects from front to back.


Oh, we can blame the writer for screwing up, because you write a bleeping *storyboard* that marks the plot points of a story if you can write, like an outline. If he wanted a Kirino-romance ending, he didn't do the work of getting there. There's at least a half dozen unresolved issues that might get Kyou killed or jailed. There's the hairpin total change of attitude from several major characters required (not likely). I'll say it again - a Kirino ending would have been fine *IF* he had covered his bases. There's unresolved crap all over the place.


There's also the "Kirino-resolvedsibling + Kyou-Ayase or Kyou-Kuroneko" ending. Maybe it's my perspective but the Kuroneko relationship is the only non-sibling story arc that actually seemed like real love rather than passing fancy, somewhat because of the "like" and "care" parts.

Sigh, as Soverence notes - weak endings seem endemic to many LNs and manga. Though I'd say Toradora!, Spice & Wolf, and Love Complex! were pretty thoroughly well thought out endings. Most of this story was quite interesting, it just seems like something almost random was pasted on the end of it. It makes me wonder more often how little experience a good percentage of LN/manga authors have with actual other human beings.

Also, I was really wondering if everything Vexx said in this post really did make sense, as in he is saying that the author didn't really build up a story that would be a "Kirino-romance ending" before the 12th LN.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by iMACobra

This was referring to the early "supposed" spoilers before the last LN came out. So was Kuroneko's act of tearing up her Destiny Record really out-of-character?

Those early "spoilers" were really incomplete (the epilogue was even completely omitted) and somewhat biased in the way things were explained, so going back to comments made back then is a bit of dubious worth. In the context of the actual chapter it does make sense why she does it: because she had gotten too attached to what she wanted to have happen (rather than what her true intentions were initially), and that book became a book of memories about what is now an unrequited love. So her tearing up the book is an illustration of what Kyousuke is giving up to be with Kirino, and he has to stand there and take it with a brave face even though it's very painful to him (because he did love Kuroneko as well). So in the context of the actual chapter, I think it works just fine, and the imagery is pretty powerful. I think none of that was conveyed by the early summary, and so it seemed out-of-character when presented without context/explanation. I don't believe that any more. It represents the conflict in Kuroneko's original stated goal and her internal/"selfish" goal which had taken over, not unreasonably.

Originally Posted by iMACobra

Also, I was really wondering if everything Vexx said in this post really did make sense, as in he is saying that the author didn't really build up a story that would be a "Kirino-romance ending" before the 12th LN.

Well, it's an opinion, and many subsequent posts discussed this since then.

The story was written to keep people guessing all the way to the last volume. This requirement/constraint required "plausible deniability", and so readers could imagine (a few) other scenarios that seemed quite workable. But, by the same token, the scenario set-up with Kirino also has foundation throughout the whole novel series as well, it's just that people didn't necessarily think the author would choose to take things that far between them. The author was deliberately tricky by making Kirino a character who could never be honest about her true feelings, and Kyousuke a bit of an unrealiable narrator (whose true feelings were being masked/obscured due, among other reasons, to the consequences to him), again, to keep people guessing.

So I think the story on the whole does certainly support a Kirino-romantic ending. But, I also don't think it was the one-and-only possible way for the story to end. If the author had been less mysterious/tricky in his writing, I think it could have been written in such a way that was much more clear/obvious and would have been less of a "surprise"... but, by the same token, I think creating that sense of "surprise" was the point. But when you go back and read the rest of the story, knowing the way it will end, I think the pieces are in place to allow you to connect the dots.

But again, it's an opinion. And I would also point out that Vexx has posted revised opinions too as more details/further information were available (though not entirely changing his view). Digging back through those old posts is, again, of dubious worth. Opinions evolved over time as we became aware of more facts.

[Wilshere]

I see a lot of people stating that the end was clearly obvious just because of the ''title''. I think it's clearly stated in the novels that its just his reaction whenever she smiles and shows gratitude and thanks to him,no other meaning.

[protheus]

I didn't found any point leading to that statement in the novels, sorry.

[Wilshere]

Originally Posted by protheus

I didn't found any point leading to that statement in the novels, sorry.

Re-read volume 1 again

[Polarpew]

So, who wants to spoil the last volume for me?

[Wilshere]

Originally Posted by Polarpew

So, who wants to spoil the last volume for me?

You can start reading from page 184 on this forum or go read the final volume on baka-tsuki(half way done).

[Polarpew]

Originally Posted by Wilshere

You can start reading from page 184 on this forum or go read the final volume on baka-tsuki(half way done).

thanks, just speed read it through, so in the end Kyousuke picked the hard choice and ended up with no one huh?

[Wilshere]

Originally Posted by Polarpew

thanks, just speed read it through, so in the end Kyousuke picked the hard choice and ended up with no one huh?

Somehow, but the Author confirmed its a complete Kirino end, his intentions couldn't be clearly shown due to publisher restrictions and the likes. The epilogue supports that.