(CR) Sangatsu no Lion

[Dop]

That was excellent, one of the best things I've seen this season so far. Everything I possibly expected and then some.

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

...followed by a jarring jump into silly comedic antics (WTF is up with the inner cat voices?).

The dog in Honey and Clover had dialogue too, although that wasn't voiced in the anime, just captioned. While I've never read the manga for this (don't think it's available in English, hope someone picks it up!) it's totally the kind of comic shenanigans I'd expect from Chica Umino.

And that's why I love it.

[kuromitsu]

Yeah, this was a pretty strong episode, and it definitely did justice to the manga. The characters were themselves and presented faithfully, the story going the way it should, the mood was very well set, the abstract elements from the manga handled well. Frankly, I think that if people didn't know what studio was involved and therefore had no reason to have kneejerk reactions and looking for validation for their pre-airing fears, it would be praised by many of those who are complaining about it now.

(Then again I have a feeling that some people who are complaining now would also complain about the insert songs in Honey and Clover if it was airing now and Shaft/Shinbou happened to be involved. So corny! So artsy! Everything that is wrong with anime today! )

Disclaimer: I have no opinion on Shaft one way or another, I don't care for most of their shows at all. But this was, in fact, a good episode and good adaptation.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Dop

That was excellent, one of the best things I've seen this season so far. Everything I possibly expected and then some.


The dog in Honey and Clover had dialogue too, although that wasn't voiced in the anime, just captioned. While I've never read the manga for this (don't think it's available in English, hope someone picks it up!) it's totally the kind of comic shenanigans I'd expect from Chica Umino.

And that's why I love it.

Well, it's fan translated. And yeah, the cats "speak".

[Haak]

It was a nice premeire. I wasn't blown away or anything but then again I remember being ambivalent whilst reading the manga as well.

Can't comment on how loyal the adaptation is since I can't remember much of the content but I did think the comedy was a little too zany at times (but then again Honey & Clover was pretty zany too). Shinbou's direction is certainly noticeable what with his particular technique of illustrating emotions in abstract ways (see my sig), but that doesn't really bother me (although I don't think it adds much to this show either).

Also, Rei got the "Mikazuki" rice cake. If that's in the manga then that's one hell of a coincidence.

[Kanon]

Shockingly un-Shinbo like. I could have never guessed who the director was if I hadn't known about it.

That was a good start, although nothing really jumped out and I'm confused about a few things, like who those cute sisters are to the main character.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Dop

The dog in Honey and Clover had dialogue too, although that wasn't voiced in the anime, just captioned. While I've never read the manga for this (don't think it's available in English, hope someone picks it up!) it's totally the kind of comic shenanigans I'd expect from Chica Umino.

And that's why I love it.

So I hear, but the problem is, when something like that is in manga form, you can take your time reading first the main balloons, then the throwaway gag dialogue from minor characters. When in anime form however all voices are, well, voices, there are no balloons to clarify what's important and what's not. As a result the scene had people basically talking almost one over each other in a very confusing way, and when some of these are fucking cats who aren't saying anything that you can't deduce from their behaviour that feels a bit like too much. Sometimes in adaptation some dialogue gets dropped out, and that's fine (a successful example is the scene in the One Punch Man finale where Saitama's on the Moon: the manga had thought bubbles, the anime replaced those with absolute silence, very befitting of the atmosphere - or lack thereof - of the place. Everything was successfully conveyed by gestures).

[abhjetgon]

And.... I don't know really. The first 10 minutes or so were good, but not so much for the rest. The tonal shift was ok, but I don't know what SHAFT are going for by clearly defining chapter 1/2 and so on, in story structure. Rei is obviously suffering & burdened with something(most likely the thing with his step(?)father, we'll see. The parts with the girls contracted with the first, so I didn't really get into them much. Nice cast of characters though. Shaft gimmicks were kept low, but the fast editing in 2nd part was ehh. Good premiere overall, if not at least promising. 3.5/5

[MCAL]

There's been an increasing amount of stuff I've seen that deals with characters dealing with depression. Certainly not easy to watch, but still incredibly good.

[SeaDoor]

<= fan of Honey and Clover

I loved every frame of this episode. Not familiar with the manga and wasn't aware this was from Shaft until I read it here just now. This looks to be right up my alley so I'm in!

[Maxulous]

Anime fans consistently excuse tonal shifts and (to my mind) jarring humor in anime, yet balk when it isn't befitting of their precious manga.

9 times out of 10 I would lock up sweat drops, face faults, zany shenanigans and throw away the key. Happily, 3-gatsu isn't one of those times.

[IceHism]

It was ok. Hopefully later episodes are better

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Maxulous

Anime fans consistently excuse tonal shifts and (to my mind) jarring humor in anime, yet balk when it isn't befitting of their precious manga.

It just depends... it's true that those are a staple of anime, but they simply have a different effect based on context. Let's put it this way - in Drifters, for example, I had no problem with those because it's a story that's meant to be popcorn entertainment anyway. The parts with murderous violence aren't serious either, and if you take them as such you're kind of missing the point imho. It's just a big show having a lot of fun with itself, when the characters go into comedy mode it's just making that a bit more explicit.

Here it was just weird because, well, I'm just assuming the feelings I got from the episode weren't what I was supposed to get from it. The first half was very depressing and felt slightly surreal - in this case it might have been the point, though I still expected a more intimate tone from this series (what I mean by intimate: you can portray sadness by warping the representation of the world around a character, or just through gestures and actions of said character while the world around keeps going like nothing is happening. This show went for the former, I expected more the latter, which is more 'naturalistic' and feels more personal and up-and-close, more befitting of a story that is personal and small in scope, at least at the beginning, when we're still not fully in the head space of the protagonist).
The second half was just weird. First, because the first one went for such a high and symbolism-ridden tone, the shift to comedy was all the more jarring. Second, because if it was supposed to convey a feeling of the protagonist finding solace in the company and warmth of a familiar home it fell flat on its face. What it conveyed instead was confusion, chaos, a manic flurry of activity that actually felt scary and off-putting. Too much energy, especially in contrast with the beginning. So if the objective was to show that to this protagonist BOTH halves of his life are hell - one because he's dried up and lost his passion, the other because his human connections are simply a bunch of obnoxious noise into which he forcefully drowns his senses, well done, objective achieved. Since I somewhat doubt that was the intent of the source material (tell me if I'm wrong, I plan to check out the manga anyway soon so I can make myself a clearer opinion), then yeah, I'm a bit perplexed by it all.

Also, frankly, maybe explaining who your characters are is overrated, but I still tend to need to understand a bit about them before caring about them. I'm not asking for some cliched first-person narrating voice (that we still got in the end anyway), but dropping a bit more hints would have made the entire experience far less confusing.

[abhjetgon]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

It just depends... it's true that those are a staple of anime, but they simply have a different effect based on context. Let's put it this way - in Drifters, for example, I had no problem with those because it's a story that's meant to be popcorn entertainment anyway. The parts with murderous violence aren't serious either, and if you take them as such you're kind of missing the point imho. It's just a big show having a lot of fun with itself, when the characters go into comedy mode it's just making that a bit more explicit.

Here it was just weird because, well, I'm just assuming the feelings I got from the episode weren't what I was supposed to get from it. The first half was very depressing and felt slightly surreal - in this case it might have been the point, though I still expected a more intimate tone from this series (what I mean by intimate: you can portray sadness by warping the representation of the world around a character, or just through gestures and actions of said character while the world around keeps going like nothing is happening. This show went for the former, I expected more the latter, which is more 'naturalistic' and feels more personal and up-and-close, more befitting of a story that is personal and small in scope, at least at the beginning, when we're still not fully in the head space of the protagonist).
The second half was just weird. First, because the first one went for such a high and symbolism-ridden tone, the shift to comedy was all the more jarring. Second, because if it was supposed to convey a feeling of the protagonist finding solace in the company and warmth of a familiar home it fell flat on its face. What it conveyed instead was confusion, chaos, a manic flurry of activity that actually felt scary and off-putting. Too much energy, especially in contrast with the beginning. So if the objective was to show that to this protagonist BOTH halves of his life are hell - one because he's dried up and lost his passion, the other because his human connections are simply a bunch of obnoxious noise into which he forcefully drowns his senses, well done, objective achieved. Since I somewhat doubt that was the intent of the source material (tell me if I'm wrong, I plan to check out the manga anyway soon so I can make myself a clearer opinion), then yeah, I'm a bit perplexed by it all.

Also, frankly, maybe explaining who your characters are is overrated, but I still tend to need to understand a bit about them before caring about them. I'm not asking for some cliched first-person narrating voice (that we still got in the end anyway), but dropping a bit more hints would have made the entire experience far less confusing.

Spot on. That's exactly what I thought for most parts.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Second, because if it was supposed to convey a feeling of the protagonist finding solace in the company and warmth of a familiar home it fell flat on its face.

But that's not what it was trying to convey? It was indeed supposed to convey Rei's discomfort and inner turmoil. He didn't want to go in the first place, he then felt pressured into going, THEN he found himself in the middle of a flurry of a bustling home with all those people and all that food and everything, with people fussing around him. Sure their intentions are good, and it's a situation where you'd expect the protagonist to calm down and feel at home, but it's not what's actually happening, even before the news comes on. He's not supposed to be in a good place mentally.

[Benigmatica]

Episode 1:
Well, this is one of the saner TV series coming from Shaft. It'll be interesting to see how Rei Kiriyama's interaction with the Kawamoto sister affects his emotional well-being in future episodes.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

But that's not what it was trying to convey? It was indeed supposed to convey Rei's discomfort and inner turmoil. He didn't want to go in the first place, he then felt pressured into going, THEN he found himself in the middle of a flurry of a bustling home with all those people and all that food and everything, with people fussing around him. Sure their intentions are good, and it's a situation where you'd expect the protagonist to calm down and feel at home, but it's not what's actually happening, even before the news comes on. He's not supposed to be in a good place mentally.

Hm, alrighty then. Still a bit of an unpleasant experience. I mean, I get the idea of conveying the feeling by literally making the viewer *feel the same thing*, but this episode did that by basically being... annoying, I suppose. Perhaps I'd be more accepting of it if this came for me after I've been given time to familiarise with the characters and empathise with them rather than being dropped in medias res. As it was my thoughts were "why should I care enough about this random guy and his obnoxious friends?".

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Hm, alrighty then. Still a bit of an unpleasant experience. I mean, I get the idea of conveying the feeling by literally making the viewer *feel the same thing*, but this episode did that by basically being... annoying, I suppose.

Well, speaking as someone who often feels like this when it comes to social interactions (and has the unfortunate tendency to duck out in the last moment, too), it was a fairly good representation of being overwhelmed. It's the same in the manga, too: in the first half you get large, stark (by Umino Chica definition of "stark" anyway) panels, mostly empty or nondescript backgrounds, etc. Then Rei arrives at the house and suddenly boom, people, speech bubbles (fancy speech bubbles, too), cats, random flowers, actual backgrounds, people running around shouting and screaming, the pages get really busy, oppressively so.

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

As it was my thoughts were "why should I care enough about this random guy and his obnoxious friends?".

Well because he's the main character and supposedly you're watching because you're interested in his story? Not all stories start from the very beginning, nor do they need to.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Well, speaking as someone who often feels like this when it comes to social interactions (and has the unfortunate tendency to duck out in the last moment, too), it was a fairly good representation of being overwhelmed. It's the same in the manga, too: in the first half you get large, stark (by Umino Chica definition of "stark" anyway) panels, mostly empty or nondescript backgrounds, etc. Then Rei arrives at the house and suddenly boom, people, speech bubbles (fancy speech bubbles, too), cats, random flowers, actual backgrounds, people running around shouting and screaming, the pages get really busy, oppressively so.


Well because he's the main character and supposedly you're watching because you're interested in his story? Not all stories start from the very beginning, nor do they need to.

Hey, I feel like that too, that's why I can relate/understand. But to go to your second answer - not at all! When I start watching a show I just think I might be interested in these people's story. That's why first episodes are so important to get right, they need to pack in 25 minutes an answer to exactly that question. A few examples from this season - "Why should I care about these guys?"

Drifters: because they're all badass and doing cool shit all over the place, yo!
Yuri on ice: because Yuuri is clearly an earnest and likeable guy and despite going through a bit of a slump now he's just met his long time idol and who knows where things can go to for him from here. Also you get to see more of Viktor's butt!
Izetta the Last Witch: because the princess is strong, determined and someone you definitely want to root for. Also she has a friend *wink wink* who is also a WITCH and they're fighting in WW2!
Sangatsu no Lion: I... don't really know. I'm too down to let you really get a glimpse at this guys' personality. Like, seriously, I feel like shit. Simply tag along if you feel like it. Or don't. Whatever. I don't care.

There, that .

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

It just depends... it's true that those are a staple of anime, but they simply have a different effect based on context. Let's put it this way - in Drifters, for example, I had no problem with those because it's a story that's meant to be popcorn entertainment anyway. The parts with murderous violence aren't serious either, and if you take them as such you're kind of missing the point imho. It's just a big show having a lot of fun with itself, when the characters go into comedy mode it's just making that a bit more explicit.

Here it was just weird because, well, I'm just assuming the feelings I got from the episode weren't what I was supposed to get from it. The first half was very depressing and felt slightly surreal - in this case it might have been the point, though I still expected a more intimate tone from this series (what I mean by intimate: you can portray sadness by warping the representation of the world around a character, or just through gestures and actions of said character while the world around keeps going like nothing is happening. This show went for the former, I expected more the latter, which is more 'naturalistic' and feels more personal and up-and-close, more befitting of a story that is personal and small in scope, at least at the beginning, when we're still not fully in the head space of the protagonist).
The second half was just weird. First, because the first one went for such a high and symbolism-ridden tone, the shift to comedy was all the more jarring. Second, because if it was supposed to convey a feeling of the protagonist finding solace in the company and warmth of a familiar home it fell flat on its face. What it conveyed instead was confusion, chaos, a manic flurry of activity that actually felt scary and off-putting. Too much energy, especially in contrast with the beginning. So if the objective was to show that to this protagonist BOTH halves of his life are hell - one because he's dried up and lost his passion, the other because his human connections are simply a bunch of obnoxious noise into which he forcefully drowns his senses, well done, objective achieved. Since I somewhat doubt that was the intent of the source material (tell me if I'm wrong, I plan to check out the manga anyway soon so I can make myself a clearer opinion), then yeah, I'm a bit perplexed by it all.

The bit with the sisters isn't hell, but he doesn't feel at home either. He still feels like a stranger to a much greater extent than they do.

[Maxulous]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Let's put it this way - in Drifters, for example, I had no problem with those because it's a story that's meant to be popcorn entertainment anyway. The parts with murderous violence aren't serious either, and if you take them as such you're kind of missing the point imho. It's just a big show having a lot of fun with itself, when the characters go into comedy mode it's just making that a bit more explicit.

The humor in Drifters seemed more like filler than anything else, so it failed to further inform me about the characters on screen. That's my issue with most anime humor (not talking about comedy shows per se), it's usually so generic it actually robs character.

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

As it was my thoughts were "why should I care enough about this random guy and his obnoxious friends?".

Some shows don't even try to answer that in the first episode. Take Texhnolyze for example.