AnimeSuki Forums

DragoonKain3 · 2012-01-12, 11:27

Even despite knowing about the existence of SOPA since the beginning of last year's December, I just didn't know the ramifications on its effect on the websites I frequently go to.

Then it all dawned to me how little I know of Asuki, despite being around since KonoMini first had a sub-forum. Is Asuki owned by Americans? Is it hosted on American servers? Or does it even matter once SOPA gets passed?

Because really, let's not kid ourselves... fansubbing has, and always been, a form of piracy, despite the 'higher ground' taken by sites like Asuki. IANAL, but can SOPA 'blacklist' Asuki by having Japanese companies with American subsidiaries to enact the act on it?

I might just be getting over my head, or I'm just being paranoid, but I really don't want to lose my 'internet home' for practically the last decade.

Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act

Magin · 2012-01-12, 14:12

I don't think you'll have to worry about it too much... I don't every exact last detail of SOPA other mostly than what it stands for, but assuming SOPA even passes, the thing that'll take the worst hit is probably the torrent listing. After all, as much as I personally mutter about it, the mods are pretty strict about links to anything that's licensed, which keeps the site pretty safe from getting into hot water, so to speak. And since not only is this primarily an anime site, but also since every time an anime is even so much as announced it gets licensed these days... I'd say that we're not going to see to much of a hit

... of course, I could be wrong about this, and if someone is more informed, feel free to correct me

Vexx · 2012-01-12, 14:24

Actually... SOPA is currently so vague that, yes, Animesuki *could* tagged as blacklisted on the US DNS servers. Why? Because we *discuss* illegal fansubs (with some restraint but...). This is what has companies like Google, Amazon, game companies, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter, etc ready to "turn off their Internet" for a day. Social networking sites Facebook/Youtube could be silenced because their members upload stuff, link to copyrighted images/songs, etc. Amazon and ebay can't control who sells what 100%. Everyone is saying, look, the DMCA may not be great but it is practical, SOPA/PIPA is a system-breaker.

Its a really bad piece of legislation written by technically crippled congressmen who have had their wallets stuffed by entertainment moguls who *don't*care* if they break the Internet. They don't use it, they don't get it - they want money every time you *think* about entertainment. How dare you entertain yourself anyway?

What would tend to happen "practically" speaking from the user standpoint is that the Internet would respond by considering all US DNS servers as poisoned/corrupted. Users with a clue would stop using any US domestic servers and set their DNS to use offshore name resolution servers. Users who didn't know how to do that would begin to see vast swaths of the Internet "vanish".

All the companies I listed would have expend huge amounts of money either challenging rulings, responding to lawsuits, and probably using a draconian lockout of any users who shared copyrighted materials. Want to sell your game on ebay? SOPA says you can't use a copyrighted image without the game manufacturer's permission. It could easily mean that any photo you *took* of a copyrighted item may not be posted as there's no provision for fair use. That's how broken the bill is. Oh yeah.. these guys are trying to break Right of First Sale as well but that's another topic.

Irenicus · 2012-01-12, 14:32

If it comes to that, just use desopa or some variation thereof. It's really easy to circumvent SOPA's DNS-blocking measures.

Then go out on the streets and burn some tires for me.

It would be "a bit" more difficult if the site and the server it is on is directly targeted somehow, but you have to ask the administrators here on the details of the potential effects. I would not put Animesuki as a high priority target however.

Vexx · 2012-01-12, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irenicus

If it comes to that, just use desopa or some variation thereof. It's really easy to circumvent SOPA's DNS-blocking measures.

Then go out on the streets and burn some tires for me.

It would be "a bit" more difficult if the site and the server it is on is directly targeted somehow, but you have to ask the administrators here on the details of the potential effects. I would not put Animesuki as a high priority target however.

The net effect is that the tech-savvy community would route around it using offshore servers ... a number of servers may relocate overseas for safety. The impact is on non-technical Joe/Jane America (who wouldn't understand why their account(s) got locked for infringing postings by companies trying to protect themselves). Technology companies like Google, Facebook, Amazon, eBay, etc. would take substantial financial impacts and user losses.

My wife uses a number of knitting sites... they are FULL of infringing activities (copyrighted imagery, shared knit patterns, etc). They'd easily vanish off the Net for most users and would die from isolation even if some people figured out how to change their DNS.

monster · 2012-01-12, 14:58

If I'm not mistaken, SOPA is intended for sites that are hosted outside of the US. Those sites that are hosted in the US already fall under the jurisdiction of DMCA or other similar US laws.

Vexx · 2012-01-12, 15:00

SOPA as currently written applies everywhere ... "to the Internet". But yeah, a significant intent is to black out inconvenient parts of the world to the US. No matter where you are as an Internet company, a significant portion of your sales and usage comes from the US - letting Media Mogul Bob turn off your US DNS because he says so doesn't bode well.

Endless Soul · 2012-01-12, 15:15

This could easily apply to plenty of other companies as well. For instance the company I work for names brands of HVAC controls that we install on our website as a sales tool.

Irenicus · 2012-01-12, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

The net effect is that the tech-savvy community would route around it using offshore servers ... a number of servers may relocate overseas for safety. The impact is on non-technical Joe/Jane America (who wouldn't understand why their account(s) got locked for infringing postings by companies trying to protect themselves). Technology companies like Google, Facebook, Amazon, eBay, etc. would take substantial financial impacts and user losses.

Mm, global impact's a different topic -- we've got the main SOPA thread for that to freak out in already (:P). DragoonKain3 asked a specific question on the potential impact on Asuki so I tried to limit my post to that.

So to restate, it's a big bill and there are a lot of things, mostly shady and questionable things, going on in it. But the most infamous aspect, DNS-blocking, is actually not very dangerous except as a symbol of what is being attempted. It's ridiculously easy to circumvent, and I would not be surprised if Firefox and Chrome would implement circumvention measures natively, if the bill or its PIPA senate twin is passed of course, thus saving Mr. Average the problem of having to wonder who broke his internet. All they really need to do after all is to link to a foreign DNS server, and if someone wants to make that illegal too, I'm sure Google and Mozilla wouldn't mind continuing this battle in the courts.

Therefore I hypothesize that typing in www[dot]animesuki[dot]com, even in the USA, will likely still get you to the right place even if you're typing from a SOPA'd Hellhole, USA. And if it doesn't, just install one of the anti-SOPA apps already floating around the wilds.

It is other measures within the bill, less publicized, that may be more problematic in regards to the integrity of Animesuki...and of course the potential long term impact (but that's for the other topic). Though, IIRC, its server is located in the Netherlands.

SaintessHeart · 2012-01-12, 18:17

If the SOPA goes global as an international law, here is an easy way to get Singapore's signature: simply threaten to pull Universal Studios entertainment park out of that place and my government will sign: they aren't bright enough to see future ramifications on the current generation of animators they are grooming to grab a slice of the international media hub.

I am starting to see a streak that the supporters of this bill are made up of two kinds of people: the immensely stupid who don't understand technology, and the ridiculously bright who seem to be able to manipulate government workers; who are supposed to be the "cream of the crop" in any country.

Transitions · 2012-01-12, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Actually... SOPA is currently so vague that, yes, Animesuki *could* tagged as blacklisted on the US DNS servers. Why? Because we *discuss* illegal fansubs (with some restraint but...). This is what has companies like Google, Amazon, game companies, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter, etc ready to "turn off their Internet" for a day. Social networking sites Facebook/Youtube could be silenced because their members upload stuff, link to copyrighted images/songs, etc. Amazon and ebay can't control who sells what 100%. Everyone is saying, look, the DMCA may not be great but it is practical, SOPA/PIPA is a system-breaker.

.

this is the reason for the Deep Web will replace the internet that everybody know.

speedyexpress48 · 2012-01-12, 23:35

I can see SOPA not only affecting animesuki but going as far as affecting Crunchyroll and Funimation (and maybe even the Japanese anime companies themselves), since companies can take down sites for anything close to copyright/trademark infringement and a lot anime tends to stuff obvious references and sometimes logos/trademarked items in them (or similar-looking logos and other stuff).

Course, if this does pass, the internet will likely become less and less valid, and something else might take its place...

Good thing is, my local rep is one of the most vocal opponents of SOPA in Congress and one of the backers of the OPEN Act(Rep. Jared Polis, D-CO, Boulder area...) and he's trying hard to get more opponents for SOPA every day. Not saying the OPEN Act isn't also ripe for abuse, but it's way better than the SOPA/PIPA cocktail.

Cosmic Eagle · 2012-01-13, 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

If the SOPA goes global as an international law, here is an easy way to get Singapore's signature: simply threaten to pull Universal Studios entertainment park out of that place and my government will sign: they aren't bright enough to see future ramifications on the current generation of animators they are grooming to grab a slice of the international media hub.

I am starting to see a streak that the supporters of this bill are made up of two kinds of people: the immensely stupid who don't understand technology, and the ridiculously bright who seem to be able to manipulate government workers; who are supposed to be the "cream of the crop" in any country.

If it gets global as an international law then the system is seriously rotten somewhere to allow an American law to impose their will overseas...

Also do you think you can actually enforce this across the globe? The Net is colossal.

I'd be more worried about the TPP for our region....that thing may actually be established...and then what? Time to switch to Share and Chinese forums?

DonQuigleone · 2012-01-13, 06:32

Why not merge this into the other SOPA thread?

HasuMasu · 2012-01-13, 06:35

If it gets passed then I'll have to spend my time...outside.

DonQuigleone · 2012-01-13, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detective-san

If it gets passed then I'll have to spend my time...outside.

Oh no!

Vexx · 2012-01-13, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

Course, if this does pass, the internet will likely become less and less valid, and something else might take its place...

Maybe I lack vision but semaphore, courier mail, sneakernets, and pigeons are mostly what come to mind (old joke: what is the bandwidth of a van full of backup tapes driving between two cities?). Personal wireless nets are *possible* but they could easily be derailed by enforcing the radio operator rules (damned illegal terrorist pirate broadcasters, yarrrr)

Ryusiangel · 2012-01-17, 20:05

anybody know when this will pass or not (hoping not) I love my anime and usually i like to own them yes i do download but i get rid of them once dvds comes out and buy them. knowing that some anime doesn't make it to the U.S. its hard to own i like to usually rewatch most. i don't know it will effect anime or not but i really hope more licencers licence anime even if its not as popular.

Vexx · 2012-01-17, 20:16

Its not a "when" but an "if". The sponsors tried to rush this through over the New Years but were stalled by the sudden protests. Right now they keep "delaying it for further study and to address the concerns of the security and technical experts"... so its not quite dead yet but nor is it alive. Be sure and write your Representative and both Senators on the matter tomorrow during the blackout.

National Review (conservative view magazine) thinks the bills are bad: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...niel-botwinick
LA Times finds the whole Lamar Smith and MPAA connection questionable: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,5284397.story

HurricaneHige · 2012-01-17, 21:49

Join internet blackout day!

STAND, AND FIGHT!

2012-01-12, 11:27	Link #1
DragoonKain3 Osana-Najimi Shipper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mt. Ordeals	SOPA: If passed, how will it affect Animesuki? Even despite knowing about the existence of SOPA since the beginning of last year's December, I just didn't know the ramifications on its effect on the websites I frequently go to. Then it all dawned to me how little I know of Asuki, despite being around since KonoMini first had a sub-forum. Is Asuki owned by Americans? Is it hosted on American servers? Or does it even matter once SOPA gets passed? Because really, let's not kid ourselves... fansubbing has, and always been, a form of piracy, despite the 'higher ground' taken by sites like Asuki. IANAL, but can SOPA 'blacklist' Asuki by having Japanese companies with American subsidiaries to enact the act on it? I might just be getting over my head, or I'm just being paranoid, but I really don't want to lose my 'internet home' for practically the last decade. Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act __________________ Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)

2012-01-12, 14:12	Link #2
Magin #1 Akashiya Moka Fan Author Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Where magic is real Age: 35	I don't think you'll have to worry about it too much... I don't every exact last detail of SOPA other mostly than what it stands for, but assuming SOPA even passes, the thing that'll take the worst hit is probably the torrent listing. After all, as much as I personally mutter about it, the mods are pretty strict about links to anything that's licensed, which keeps the site pretty safe from getting into hot water, so to speak. And since not only is this primarily an anime site, but also since every time an anime is even so much as announced it gets licensed these days... I'd say that we're not going to see to much of a hit ... of course, I could be wrong about this, and if someone is more informed, feel free to correct me __________________ Gifted...or Cursed? R+V fanfic- Chapter 4 of A Water Bride and a Vampire is now up at FF.net! All fans of Inner or Outer Moka, come join her fanclub!

2012-01-12, 14:24	Link #3
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Actually... SOPA is currently so vague that, yes, Animesuki could tagged as blacklisted on the US DNS servers. Why? Because we discuss illegal fansubs (with some restraint but...). This is what has companies like Google, Amazon, game companies, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter, etc ready to "turn off their Internet" for a day. Social networking sites Facebook/Youtube could be silenced because their members upload stuff, link to copyrighted images/songs, etc. Amazon and ebay can't control who sells what 100%. Everyone is saying, look, the DMCA may not be great but it is practical, SOPA/PIPA is a system-breaker. Its a really bad piece of legislation written by technically crippled congressmen who have had their wallets stuffed by entertainment moguls who don'tcare* if they break the Internet. They don't use it, they don't get it - they want money every time you think about entertainment. How dare you entertain yourself anyway? What would tend to happen "practically" speaking from the user standpoint is that the Internet would respond by considering all US DNS servers as poisoned/corrupted. Users with a clue would stop using any US domestic servers and set their DNS to use offshore name resolution servers. Users who didn't know how to do that would begin to see vast swaths of the Internet "vanish". All the companies I listed would have expend huge amounts of money either challenging rulings, responding to lawsuits, and probably using a draconian lockout of any users who shared copyrighted materials. Want to sell your game on ebay? SOPA says you can't use a copyrighted image without the game manufacturer's permission. It could easily mean that any photo you took of a copyrighted item may not be posted as there's no provision for fair use. That's how broken the bill is. Oh yeah.. these guys are trying to break Right of First Sale as well but that's another topic. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories! Last edited by Vexx; 2012-01-12 at 14:41.

2012-01-12, 15:00	Link #7
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	SOPA as currently written applies everywhere ... "to the Internet". But yeah, a significant intent is to black out inconvenient parts of the world to the US. No matter where you are as an Internet company, a significant portion of your sales and usage comes from the US - letting Media Mogul Bob turn off your US DNS because he says so doesn't bode well. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2012-01-12, 15:15	Link #8
Endless Soul Megane girl fan Join Date: May 2011 Location: Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. Age: 55	This could easily apply to plenty of other companies as well. For instance the company I work for names brands of HVAC controls that we install on our website as a sales tool. __________________ Signature by ganbaru

2012-01-12, 14:32	Link #4
Irenicus Le fou, c'est moi Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA Age: 34	If it comes to that, just use desopa or some variation thereof. It's really easy to circumvent SOPA's DNS-blocking measures. Then go out on the streets and burn some tires for me. It would be "a bit" more difficult if the site and the server it is on is directly targeted somehow, but you have to ask the administrators here on the details of the potential effects. I would not put Animesuki as a high priority target however.

2012-01-12, 14:58	Link #6
monster Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	If I'm not mistaken, SOPA is intended for sites that are hosted outside of the US. Those sites that are hosted in the US already fall under the jurisdiction of DMCA or other similar US laws.

2012-01-12, 18:17	Link #10
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	If the SOPA goes global as an international law, here is an easy way to get Singapore's signature: simply threaten to pull Universal Studios entertainment park out of that place and my government will sign: they aren't bright enough to see future ramifications on the current generation of animators they are grooming to grab a slice of the international media hub. I am starting to see a streak that the supporters of this bill are made up of two kinds of people: the immensely stupid who don't understand technology, and the ridiculously bright who seem to be able to manipulate government workers; who are supposed to be the "cream of the crop" in any country. __________________ When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus. Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

2012-01-12, 23:35	Link #12
speedyexpress48 Boo, you whore Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Smokin that CO bong	I can see SOPA not only affecting animesuki but going as far as affecting Crunchyroll and Funimation (and maybe even the Japanese anime companies themselves), since companies can take down sites for anything close to copyright/trademark infringement and a lot anime tends to stuff obvious references and sometimes logos/trademarked items in them (or similar-looking logos and other stuff). Course, if this does pass, the internet will likely become less and less valid, and something else might take its place... Good thing is, my local rep is one of the most vocal opponents of SOPA in Congress and one of the backers of the OPEN Act(Rep. Jared Polis, D-CO, Boulder area...) and he's trying hard to get more opponents for SOPA every day. Not saying the OPEN Act isn't also ripe for abuse, but it's way better than the SOPA/PIPA cocktail. __________________ Your Friendly Bitcoin Trader\|Go Avs/Broncos

2012-01-13, 06:32	Link #14
DonQuigleone Knight Errant Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 35	Why not merge this into the other SOPA thread?

2012-01-13, 06:35	Link #15
HasuMasu Senior Member Artist Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: The Middle Way	If it gets passed then I'll have to spend my time...outside. __________________

2012-01-17, 20:05	Link #18
Ryusiangel Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004	anybody know when this will pass or not (hoping not) I love my anime and usually i like to own them yes i do download but i get rid of them once dvds comes out and buy them. knowing that some anime doesn't make it to the U.S. its hard to own i like to usually rewatch most. i don't know it will effect anime or not but i really hope more licencers licence anime even if its not as popular. __________________ avatar by chaos

2012-01-17, 20:16	Link #19
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Its not a "when" but an "if". The sponsors tried to rush this through over the New Years but were stalled by the sudden protests. Right now they keep "delaying it for further study and to address the concerns of the security and technical experts"... so its not quite dead yet but nor is it alive. Be sure and write your Representative and both Senators on the matter tomorrow during the blackout. National Review (conservative view magazine) thinks the bills are bad: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...niel-botwinick LA Times finds the whole Lamar Smith and MPAA connection questionable: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,5284397.story __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories! Last edited by Vexx; 2012-01-17 at 22:30.

2012-01-17, 21:49	Link #20
HurricaneHige Uguu~ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada	Join internet blackout day! STAND, AND FIGHT! __________________ Sig's coming soon ~_~ (since 07....) My rant blog (omg i'm blogging now, and not just anime)