Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Word of God. It's hard to trust the Word of God here when it flip-flops so damn much and when its contents does not match up with what we're shown or given.

I don't think that's actually a flip flop.. I can actually understand his point of view. I can understand hoe one might look at Kira's feelings towards Lacus and Flay in the 2nd half of Seed as Love but not necessarily romantic, after all, Love =/= Romance. So I guess I agree with Fukuda here. btw, I don't think Kira was ever really romantic throughout Seed..

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Not to mention that there's something in stake for the Author's wife and scriptwriter to go forth with her self-insert.

...Like what?

[aeriolewinters]

...Like what?

c'mon Kaito, this is the same person who destroyed Cagalli's character.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

c'mon Kaito, this is the same person who destroyed Cagalli's character.

I refuse to believe such unfounded nonsense, Some of wich was created in this very forum years ago.. You were here as wel so you should know how it all started. It pisses me off how people are still preaching this bullshit as a known fact.

A scriptwriter purposely trying to discredit the characters wich she created in the first place.. Com on, get real! And I sincerely hope you are not going there as well..

[n0m@n]

Well, certainly changing Kira back to being a main character in Destiny does seem like the director and the crew favours Kira over Shinn(Actually similar thing happened in Dragon Ball when Gohan was supposed to be the main character for Buu saga, but they switched it back to Goku being the main).
I actually liked Shinn so I was sad to see this happened. I hope the remaster actually changes the scene between the battle of Destiny and Infinite Justice, so they can have Infinite Justice lose atleast one limb to make it look like more of a battle......


Oh, there was also some funny information in the guidebook. The voice actress of SEED was asked which male character they prefer between Kira, Sai, Athrun, and some other guys as their boyfriend. To the surprise, Sai was ranked first as the "boyfriend" material followed by Athrun, and Kira(Though, even the voice actress said that Kira seemed unreliable since he cried too often in SEED).

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

Well, certainly changing Kira back to being a main character in Destiny does seem like the director and the crew favours Kira over Shinn.

Shinn was never going to be the sole main character of Destiny, no one made such promise. Athrun and Kira were also there from the start, even in the early promo art works.

It's ok to say you wished Shinn was the only main character, but you can't blame anyone for the fact he wasn't.

Originally Posted by n0m@n

Oh, there was also some funny information in the guidebook. The voice actress of SEED was asked which male character they prefer between Kira, Sai, Athrun, and some other guys as their boyfriend. To the surprise, Sai was ranked first as the "boyfriend" material followed by Athrun, and Kira(Though, even the voice actress said that Kira seemed unreliable since he cried too often in SEED).

Not a guidebook. I think it's from the Seed promo events. And what exactly your point?

[monster]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Because it is romantic love, a tragic one if you ask me. When Kira realized that Fllay was in the pod, his initial reaction was fear, leading to desperation. He screamed her name, almost in agony. and even though he said that she was someone that he hurt: the real issue is how he hurt her. and most likely that statement alludes to how he abruptly ended their relationship without really thinking into it. That's why it was agonizing for him.

Again, is it really romantic love when all Kira could acknowledge was that Flay was one more person he failed to protect? After all that they've been through, in the end, it was still about him failing to protect her, just as he failed to protect her father and just as he failed to protect the shuttle.

On the other side of the coin, Fllay was happy that Kira was alive, she would also scream his name in Agony, and would later reveal to Natarle (great acting by Kuwashima in this scene btw) that she's ready to set things straight with him.

For my part, I don't doubt that Flay had started to have feelings for Kira, although I'm of the opinion that she would not pursue it if he won't.

Everything was set up for them to reconcile.

Oh, I agree, as friends.

I find it laughable to think otherwise, because really, the only reason for Fllay's death is to validate the relationship with Lacus, which is obviously forced, just look at how Lacus throws herself into Kira, while Kira grieves about Fllay. And please explain why Kira's anxiety already has him hallucinating that Lacus was Fllay?

Kira was already emotionally shaken after Rau's revelation about him and his parents. Flay's appearance added to his emotional burden at the time.

Also, do realize that Kira's reaction to remembering Flay the first time was to say sorry, again showing his sense of guilt, and the second time was to flinch, since it was not a good memory for him.

The point is, Kira broke his vow not to Kill. It was a boiling point like no other.

When did he make that vow?

Please, his feelings for Fllay are stronger.

The point is that a non-romantic feeling toward someone could produce such a reaction.

It has been proven that Kira rejoins the war because he doesn't want Lacus to join Fllay in the afterlife. It's the same way with Emily, Flit and Yurin.

What are you talking about here?

A mere technicality, It also means it's better for Kira to care than to love, really... because the same situation was entered during Destiny, ep 39, that had Kira...be prodded by Athrun just to save Lacus... I mean, man such passion. ugh. I mean Lacus was going "I'll just leave the pods if we go down...don't worry about me dying". If Kira had any passion left in him, he would've got on the Strike without Athrun's 'advice'.

The situations are different.

On one hand, you have a girl on her own stuck in an escape pod crying out for help during a battle while Kira is already emotionally shaken in that episode and is already fighting in that battle.

On the other hand, you have a girl who is on a ship in space with Andrew protecting her while Kira is on Earth, not under stress, is not fighting in battle, and does not know what kind of danger Lacus was in. Kira is obviously still worried, but he is not in a position to react emotionally as he was in SEED.

It also becomes clear that you, monstert are not really a fan of the couple, to go as far as discredit the feelings between them. Stop pretending.

Oh, I am a fan of them. The difference is, instead of trying to force my own ideals on their relationship, I'm enough of a fan to accept them becoming just friends. (It's unfortunate that they never got the chance to do even that.)

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

What cannot be disputed is that Kira still very much loved Flay up into her death and even after despite him moving on with Lacus who he did eventually grow to love just as much, if not more than, with Flay even if Flay will always remain his first one true love.

Actually, what cannot be disputed is that Kira still cared for Flay. Whether Kira had any romantic feelings left for Flay is a different story.

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

and about the other side? Fllay almost had a moment of Joy when she heard Kira in the radio. She was ready to be by his side, but sadly, Athrun 'somehow' disagrees with Kira's urge to save her. and forcibly pulls him back.

He's not disagreeing with Kira's urge to save her so much as Kira's urge to dive towards the enemy ship with 3 MS's on his back and a mobile suit with it's engines damaged and main camera destroyed while his own allies were already pulling out of the area and risking him being left behind (ie, certain suicide).

If Athrun didn't grab him Kira would have certainly been killed, although he also expressed confusion as to why exactly this girl in a pod suddenly made Kira lose it so its clear he didn't think retrieving this girl was important. He later sort of understands after Cagalli explains this to him, and to be fair if Kira kept a cool head he could have coordinated a manuever with Athrun and Dearka to break past the druggies and get the pod. But since he's so messed up from the recent revealations and such he just goes off on his own screaming and nearly gets killed.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

I don't think that's actually a flip flop.. I can actually understand his point of view. I can understand hoe one might look at Kira's feelings towards Lacus and Flay in the 2nd half of Seed as Love but not necessarily romantic, after all, Love =/= Romance. So I guess I agree with Fukuda here. btw, I don't think Kira was ever really romantic throughout Seed..

This goes back to what Fukuda claiming that he liked Turn A; I think that he was trying to emulate the Loran/Sochie/Dianna relationship with Kira/Flay/Lacus, respectively, despite them being different characters.

As for Lacus being Morosawa's supposed "pet character", didn't she say that Athrun was her favorite character?

[Destined_Fate]

Shinn was set to be a main character and at the very least I'm sure the original idea was not to rehash the SEED ending and make Shinn the villain. Especially with the call back to Kamille he had going on and Athrun as Char... Even if Athrun is far more abusive than Char when it came to their protege which says a lot.

[CrowKenobi]

Let's stay on the thread topic and not resort to any name calling or other bits that undermine any point that you're trying to make. If you can't stay civil, then warnings and infractions will be issued.

Thank you.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

Well, certainly changing Kira back to being a main character in Destiny does seem like the director and the crew favours Kira over Shinn(Actually similar thing happened in Dragon Ball when Gohan was supposed to be the main character for Buu saga, but they switched it back to Goku being the main).

The Goku Syndrome in a nutshell.

However, it's more likely because Kira dominated the Newtype polls, followed by Athrun, and finally Shinn.

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

Shinn was never going to be the sole main character of Destiny, no one made such promise. Athrun and Kira were also there from the start, even in the early promo art works.

One thing that's overlooked is that out of the three supposed main characters, Athrun had the most screentime, and was the focal character for the TV Movies.

So I think that Destiny was more of Athrun's show, much like how Seed was Kira's show.

[Aquaman OS]

That might have been more of an afterthought when doing the Special Editions since Athrun was always on the "good" side for the whole show, so they tried to write it off like it was planned. In the actual series though, Athrun never got top billing. It was Shinn at first, then Kira once Durandal became antagonistic.

But yes Kira was always going to have a major role in the show. He was shown prominantly in the OP and the eyecatches from day one, a while before he showed up, and long before he actually started clashing with the new cast.

[FlareKnight]

I don't doubt that Kira was supposed to have a fairly major role from the start. Though I do think they went far beyond what they originally expected to do with him. While I originally didn't like Shinn that much, is a shame he was just used as an antagonist by the end.

[Destined_Fate]

Since no one else didn't post the third remastered episode yet in this topic that I know of.

[The American Average]

you know with that episode there were 2 things i never got 1 being why did cagalli even acknowledge shinn shouldn't she think hes just some loud mouth punk from zaft. 2 was why didn't everybody notice that "Alex Dino" was in fact Athrun Zala its not like he wasn't on the news or anything.

[Destined_Fate]

Because shades.

As for Shinn, it's because his words are pretty much true. Cagalli's Father was overly idealistic and it cost the lives of many and he was too naive to even get his own house in order. There's also the fact that the Feds never forgave ZAFT or vice versa after the last war. Thus telling Durandal he shouldn't be building weapons when the Feds already are is overly idealistic and will only lead to even more deaths.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Because shades.

As for Shinn, it's because his words are pretty much true. Cagalli's Father was overly idealistic and it cost the lives of many and he was too naive to even get his own house in order. There's also the fact that the Feds never forgave ZAFT or vice versa after the last war. Thus telling Durandal he shouldn't be building weapons when the Feds already are is overly idealistic and will only lead to even more deaths.

It more like she saying not build weapon using their Orb technology
(It like have black/white usa citizen working in weapon technology ( e.g. phantom plane) >>> when he go back to Africa/EU he give all his knowledge that country = no way USA will like that)

Though Orb don't have time for that since they are busy rebuilding themselves >>> it was Feds who was angry at Orb letting their citizen give all of their weapon technology for ZAFT for free

[ingram1106]

Why did zaft developed GUNDAM?
Feds manufactured GUNDAM first.
There was no technological tie-up from Feds to zaft.
Nevertheless, I would like to know the circumstances where GUNDAM was developed.
I think that it cannot usually be.
To have the appearance of an enemy's ms may be aimed from an ally.

[monster]

Originally Posted by The American Average

why did cagalli even acknowledge shinn shouldn't she think hes just some loud mouth punk from zaft.

Because Shinn's from Orb and yet he does not seem to think too highly of the same idealism Cagalli wants to maintain.

why didn't everybody notice that "Alex Dino" was in fact Athrun Zala its not like he wasn't on the news or anything.

Was Athrun ever on the news?

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

As for Shinn, it's because his words are pretty much true. Cagalli's Father was overly idealistic

What Shinn said my be true but i'm pretty sure Cagalli has heard that line before in the 2 year gap, orb would have had to say that same line. so why would she be flustered hearing it for the 100th time?