(L+CR) Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. Zoku (Oregairu Season 2)

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Mangonel

Dunno if the translation was bad, but its hard for me to imagine Yukino being sinister.

I personally think that translation screwed up again (they have their moments of brilliance but when they fail, it's an epic fail). CR's translation fits much better IMO:

"You're right. It's not trust. It's something much more cruel..."

Shy and conflict-averse would be how I'd describe her. Which confuses me, because culturally isn't the 'ideal' Japanese woman supposed to be demure to a fault? Why would Haruno be wanting to 'fix' her then, just because thats not interesting to her?

Haruno is probably the furthest thing away from Yamato Nadesico, and so it makes sense she just doesn't like dependency. This is what she said to Hachiman at the beginning of this episode:

"Nothing's changed. And she thinks it's fine that way. That's part of what makes her so cute, but still... it's what I can't stand about her."

So what hasn't changed? It was actually talked about the middle of the previous episode where Haruno makes this comment:

"And I thought you could handle things on your own now. Here you are relying on others again. That was cute when you were little, but now..."

We know she's talking about the same thing, as in both cases Haruno says that while it's what makes Yukino cute, it's what she doesn't like about Yukino.

Haruno also seems contradictory to me, if Haruno wants Yukino to become independent why does she appear to approve of Hikki as a friend/lover when hes currently the one Yukino is most dependent on?

If anything, she's constantly testing out Hachiman. She was the one who brought the car that hit Hachiman last season after camp, and she definitely stirred up some trouble this season as well. Even this episode she brought up the fact that Yukino gave chocolates to Hayama (which to be fair is a bit general, but she was looking at the direction of Iroha and Hachiman). I never saw Haruno approving Hikki as anything to Yukino.

So until this episode at least, Haruno looks to be feeling out Hachiman. But after the exchange when the trio was washing dishes, she seriously didn't look impressed. Then now hearing Haruno tattled to the mom about them being late, it seems enough is enough for Haruno. If Haruno hasn't reached the breaking point yet, it will be soon enough that she will be out to completely crush the trio's friendship.

[Marcus H.]

I totally don't understand people who constantly go out to test a person's breaking point, especially if it involves one's sibling of that sibling's friendship (and by extension, social life). It's almost sadomasochistic of Haruno to try and hurt Yukino just to see if she could get enough thick skin to get past their mother.

Is this habit of manipulating others Haruno's only hobby that she doesn't seem to have any other semblance of life outside of it?

[p-kun]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

What she's hinting at with Yukino is that she has this talent of acting in a way that emotionally manipulates others to do what she wants, without actually doing anything herself. She compared Yukino to their mother before, and you can see how she is.

Everything the mother said was worded in a way to guilt trip Yukino (e.g. "I let you live on your own, and you're out this late?"), but without any direct malice behind it, making it difficult to go against her without being the bad guy. Whether it's intentional or not, this is similar to the signs Yukino sent toward Hachiman during the infirmary scene, and when she dropped the bowl.

I see your point about similarities between Yukino and her mother. I personally find Yukino strong arming Hachiman to leave the club a few episodes earlier super manipulative, especially the way she put it was as if it was "for Hachiman's sake" when it's actually for her benefit. I suppose Haruno finds her using the same tactics now with the fake friendliness? I don't see it that way, but let's see in next episode what the problem is.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I totally don't understand people who constantly go out to test a person's breaking point, especially if it involves one's sibling of that sibling's friendship (and by extension, social life). It's almost sadomasochistic of Haruno to try and hurt Yukino just to see if she could get enough thick skin to get past their mother.

Is this habit of manipulating others Haruno's only hobby that she doesn't seem to have any other semblance of life outside of it?

The world doesn't revolve around Yukino and Hachiman, you know.

Considering almost a year has passed, Haruno hasn't been around them all that often.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Thing is, I find it sad that it seems that Haruno herself doesn't have any friends.

As I recall, Haruno is supposed to be very social, with tons of friends. We just don't see it because we norma

Like, she's an alumni who just recently graduated, so surely there must be someone she knows who wants to come back with her to their old school.

Why on Earth would anyone do that?

It's also shown that she was eating alone in the café before she coincidentally met Hachiman, and we never see her hang out with anyone at all.

Wasn't she killing time before meeting up with some friends?

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Is this habit of manipulating others Haruno's only hobby that she doesn't seem to have any other semblance of life outside of it?

The trio only see her eery once in a while, it just looks like a lot to us.

[Frailty]

what's happening right now is basically like Haganai, right?

[ahelo]

I think it's pretty easy to decode Haruno's message in Episode 12 or at least I thought it was easy. She's been constantly telling the audience that in her view of Yukino, she always passes her work to others (based on a backstory that hasn't been explained yet). It's probably just that. It's not that Yukino trusts Hikki (or "just" trust) but in Haruno's viewpoint, she's seeing Yukino, again,passing work that she really should deal by herself. I think rather than trust, Yukino is relying too much on Hikki (though obviously I have no idea how the hell relying on your friends is such a wrong thing).

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Endscape

As I recall, Haruno is supposed to be very social, with tons of friends.

That's the thing. She's supposed to be social, yet we never see her around someone her age. I mean her quote of "Does the 'real thing' even exist?" implies that she herself hasn't found 'genuine' bonds with other people.

Why on Earth would anyone do that?

Because if you have friends from the same high school that you go to college with, wouldn't coming back as a group of friends makes more sense? I dunno about Japanese, but it was a common thing to see alumnis together when I was in school. At the very least, helping their old school is an excuse to hang out together again... :shrug:

Wasn't she killing time before meeting up with some friends?

Not in the official translation where it says "Well, that was great for killing some time." And I don't think I'm alone in thinking 'killing time' for Haruno is meddling with other people's business.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

That's the thing. She's supposed to be social, yet we never see her around someone her age. I mean her quote of "Does the 'real thing' even exist?" implies that she herself hasn't found 'genuine' bonds with other people.

Because if you have friends from the same high school that you go to college with, wouldn't coming back as a group of friends makes more sense? I dunno about Japanese, but it was a common thing to see alumnis together when I was in school. At the very least, helping their old school is an excuse to hang out together again... :shrug:

First, not all of her acquaintances in college/from business graduated from the same high school as her, so they have no reason to go to a school they never went to.

Second, she did come with friends. Meguri while being a year or two younger than Haruno was also invited to the same seminar Haruno was in ep 11. We also saw her in ep 12, even if the anime did not give her any lines.


While the possibility that she hasn't found any true friends is a real possibility, there's no reason to create your own narrative.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

First, not all of her acquaintances in college/from business graduated from the same high school as her, so they have no reason to go to a school they never went to.

What I was trying to say is that for a supposed 'very social person' like Haruno, you'd think she would have at least one buddy from that high school willing to come back with her to help their old school in the school festival. Considering she's supposed to be very social, it doesn't even have to be people going in the same university/college as her, which makes this even more perplexing.

Second, she did come with friends. Meguri while being a year or two younger than Haruno was also invited to the same seminar Haruno was in ep 11. We also saw her in ep 12, even if the anime did not give her any lines.

Which is more likely, that Haruno brought Meguri along because they are friends, or that Iroha ALSO invited Meguri? I'd say the latter, considering the two are the current and former student council president. This is Japanese culture after all, and I expect that least bit amount of courtesy towards someone who was your predecessor.

While the possibility that she hasn't found any true friends is a real possibility, there's no reason to create your own narrative.

As they say in writing, "Show, not tell." Considering that I believe no one here thinks the author is inadequate, I just find it very suspicious that they are always telling Haruno is a very social person, and yet not showing at all where her friends are at. Sometimes it's just a red herring, but other times it's the author trying to tell us something.

[Stark700]

Episode 13 (finale):

Well it's over.

Spoiler:

The finale has a bit of a cliffhanger-like ending. However, the episode itself imo was cute with the "date" between Hachiman, Yui, and Yukino.

The trio's chemistry was quite charming, emotional, and has come a long way up to this finale. And for everything they went through, I think their final moments for this season is memorable. Deep stuff. Not expecting another season any time soon though.

Oh yeah, it's nice to see Yui's mom

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

That's the thing. She's supposed to be social, yet we never see her around someone her age.

Because most of the time we see her, she's either taking care of family matters or volunteering at her alma mater.Not where people spend time with friends.

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

What I was trying to say is that for a supposed 'very social person' like Haruno, you'd think she would have at least one buddy from that high school willing to come back with her to help their old school in the school festival. Considering she's supposed to be very social, it doesn't even have to be people going in the same university/college as her, which makes this even more perplexing.

Because if you have friends from the same high school that you go to college with, wouldn't coming back as a group of friends makes more sense? I dunno about Japanese, but it was a common thing to see alumnis together when I was in school. At the very least, helping their old school is an excuse to hang out together again... :shrug:

Really? I can't imagine anyone, former schoolmate or not, deliberately going to a high school to volunteer that easily.

[Marcus H.]

Upon rewatching Episode 12, I think Haruno is either contradicting herself or is trying to force a response to Yukino. We know that she does not want Yukino to go waltzing around in her shadow and be dependent to others, and here we see her remark that she prefers the old Yukino during the chocolate event. What does Haruno actually want from Yukino?

And in the end, all I can ask is: Does being genuine actually matter if the word can be twisted by human logic? And can one's obsession over the genuine just be one big misunderstanding (or worse, a stubborn refusal to understand) on that person's part?

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Upon rewatching Episode 12, I think Haruno is either contradicting herself or is trying to force a response to Yukino. We know that she does not want Yukino to go waltzing around in her shadow and be dependent to others, and here we see her remark that she prefers the old Yukino during the chocolate event. What does Haruno actually want from Yukino?

And in the end, all I can ask is: Does being genuine actually matter if the word can be twisted by human logic? And can one's obsession over the genuine just be one big misunderstanding (or worse, a stubborn refusal to understand) on that person's part?

Much of that is answered in ep13. Basically Haruno is saying that Yukino haven't really changed her ways. Hayama's words at the end of ep11, or the whole ep11 is actually talking about the same thing. More detail can be discussed in a ep13 discussion.

Being genuine in this context is not based on something verbal. It's the way of their interaction that indicates what is underlying their relationship so you can't really twist that. However, as we grow up we understand that relationships are often a mixture of different agendas, purposes, benifits, etc.. So what they talk about genuine is actually a very youngster's thing that is more pure. Even so, as adult we still look for something genuine in that mix, and that is what really matters.

And all these are actually a stage setup, which concludes at ep13.

Spoiler for Important spoiler for ep13:

And the conclusion is to put the question of their relationship on the table. I think I'm not the only one being reminded of White Album 2 when they are at Yui's home. And at the end they avoided that train wreck by insisting on what is genuine.

[ahelo]

This is one of the most honest episodes Oregairu has been since episode 8 which is ironic since they still weren't being honest enough to really say what they feel but I'm just so proud of these characters for really facing their relationships with one another. The Hikki we see now, compared to the Hikki from the very first episode is so much different: put that on character development done right. This is arguably for me one of the best episodes Oregairu has offered (and it offered quite a lot of amazing episodes that I would put down in my most loved episodes of all time) if it weren't for the fact that this is the last effing episode. I guess there's some sort of catharsis here in a way that the three characters are finally somehow on the same page even if nothing is resolved especially for what I'm going to assume is the middle of Yukuno's character arc. I'm still going to sing Oregairu S2 praises for turning what was already a fairly good series into something so precious and just something so insanely praiseworthy. The dramatic shift in tone and quality from Season 1 and Season 2 has got to be one of the main things why this series is getting so much praise and I'm more than glad to be part of those enchanted by Oregairu's spell. To think that I remember saying to myself back in episode 1 of the first season that this series just seemed so full of itself.

Though still it honestly feels like feel just cut is off from continuing to feel. Why the hell did it end on this episode (of course I know the reason but we are no way close to a resolution as of now)??? Jcidjsjdxjjxzjzj

[Marcus H.]

Being genuine in this context is not based on something verbal. It's the way of their interaction that indicates what is underlying their relationship so you can't really twist that. However, as we grow up we understand that relationships are often a mixture of different agendas, purposes, benifits, etc.. So what they talk about genuine is actually a very youngster's thing that is more pure. Even so, as adult we still look for something genuine in that mix, and that is what really matters.

I think I understand that. (Fortunately, Haruno took a back seat while the episode focuses more on the trio.) It seems that Haruno still knows that Yukino hasn't made a sliver of progress, and the "contradiction" that I noticed might just be Yukino acting differently from what she expected of her and that wasn't what she wanted.

That aside, Yui really is a cruel girl, seemingly robbing Yukino of an opportunity to change herself under the nuance of "kindness". Fortunately, the smarter Hikki has intercepted her plan before Yukino could comply. Now, the relationship of the Volunteers' Club must mature (not only become genuine) in order to complete their latest request.

Man, there are still a lot of problems and the LN isn't even finished. Aside from a love triangle that threatens to destroy the Volunteers' Club, there's also Yukino's problem with herself and her family and I guess a formal closure to the stuff going on with Hayama's circle of friends. Will there even be enough material for a third and final season? Even an OVA would suffice, because I refuse to believe that they will leave this series to conclude without an animated finale.

Well done, feel. You certainly lived up to your name.
ENTRY #246 GET.

[AP24]

It seems the anime ended at vol 11's ending, which was released few days ago.

[DragoonKain3]

"Yukinoshita leaving her future in someone else's hands is absolutely unacceptable... Yukinoshita ought to solve her problems herself."

Sore FUCKING Aru! I'm seething with so much anger (I seriously wanted to smash my monitor when Yukinoshita repeated to Haruno, word for word, what Hachiman thought they should do) that I need to sleep it over, but THANK YOU Hachiman for saying the things that I've been raging on for the past few episodes.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Because most of the time we see her, she's either taking care of family matters or volunteering at her alma mater.Not where people spend time with friends.

And she's shown to be alone in a café as well, as I brought up before. And no, the anime translation didn't imply she was killing time because she had an appointment with her 'friends'.

Really? I can't imagine anyone, former schoolmate or not, deliberately going to a high school to volunteer that easily.

As an example for myself who was in student council in HS, seeing the former student council members helping out in our two big annual events was a common thing. I personally would have done so myself after I graduated as my friends were inviting me to, but studying in a different city made it impossible. Going back was simply something you did to help the place where you came from, as part of the culture (you get to see your favourite teachers again as a bonus as well), but I guess other places just do things differently. So we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

And she's shown to be alone in a café as well, as I brought up before. And no, the anime translation didn't imply she was killing time because she had an appointment with her 'friends'.

I suppose the anime is different then.

As an example for myself who was in student council in HS, seeing the former student council members helping out in our two big annual events was a common thing. I personally would have done so myself after I graduated as my friends were inviting me to, but studying in a different city made it impossible. Going back was simply something you did to help the place where you came from, as part of the culture (you get to see your favourite teachers again as a bonus as well), but I guess other places just do things differently. So we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

I've been back to my high school a few times to help and attend functions, but I wouldn't think of inviting people that didn't go there to come along or even people that did go.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

And she's shown to be alone in a café as well, as I brought up before. And no, the anime translation didn't imply she was killing time because she had an appointment with her 'friends'.

That was just the studio cutting corners. In both the double date involving Hayama and Kaori, and the time Hachiman met her mother, it's stated in the novels that it was crowded. With the mother especially, it was stated in the novels that both she and Haruno were the center of attention.

The anime didn't show any people in the restaurant or the café, but obviously they didn't have the place reserved to themselves.