(L+CR) Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. Zoku (Oregairu Season 2)

[Marcus H.]

The worst part is the whole deal with Yukino's sister. She's so annoying this season, but I can't fully appreciate even that reaction when I don't really understand why she's acting the way she does.

You're not alone in that sentiment, monster. Haruno is no longer that whimsical older sister who teases Yukino around. She now shows a deeper kind of dislike against her, as if she wants Yukino to just "fuck off, period", but she won't exactly tell her how.

[whitecloud]

sometime im just thinking... hell is polygamy is even possible with the three of them? i dont think any of them want to be separated from each other, and if any of them back out due to some reason, the other relationship too would certainly also break apart due to guilt.

yui and yukino just cherish each other alot and hachiman being like that i dont think he could ever choose? even if he do choose it will later on ended up in disaster because of above.

[Sphire]

So I just finished watching S2 of OreGairu and had to leave a comment somewhere for my overall impression.

Spoiler for to save length:

I never cared for the underlying point of the show with regards to Hachiman being batman-esque (in high school) and that generally continued into this season. It was unique though at least, which is why I came back to watch S2 (albeit in a binge manner rather than weekly). Sadly, this unique-ness was rather overshadowed by the love-triangle. I guess I don't fully remember S1 well, but I'm thinking I remember Yukinon showing some weakness near the end and she had to be helped out. And then she fell in love with Hachiman.

So fast forward to this season, and at first nothing really changed (although I did really like the night scene between Yukinon and Hachiman at the inn) until Hachiman broke down and needed to ask for a favour and some genuine-ness. Which is fine, except the whole situation felt contrived (as usual) and the solution ended up being straight-forward (for the student council part). Iroha was at least a breath of fresh air, but then she starts liking Hachiman and well is really just eye-candy for the sake of eye-candy.

And at the end now, it really feels like Yukinon's character has been shattered. Granted, apparently the show is doing this to everyone (Hachiman wanting genuine-ness, Yui being un-nice) but Yukinon has been slaughtered. I just feel it was absolutely over the top. Yukinon has been a strong character at times, but for plot reasons, she has to be broken massively.

Yui's whole speil at the end is full of randomness that it kinda falls flat. To begin with, has she ever solved a case? Hasn't she just mostly been the glue that binds everyone together? By what random rule does she 'win' by solving this one case, neglecting everyone elses victories? Either way, I find it massively hard to believe that she could come up with a plan that would help Yukinon's problem (I don't think we even know what that really is) in the first place. And she ultimately just wants the group to be together 'forever'? For starters, it was a stupid bet and that situation wouldn't have lasted 'forever'. Secondly, while she 'may' solve Yukinon's problem, she destroy's Hachiman's request for genuine-ness at the same time (which they all kind of wanted too). So she wouldn't 'win' the bet. Thirdly, she somehow knows she has no chance with Hachiman, so her goal was just to force status-quo? Sigh. And of course, it was all a ruse to get Hachiman to speak up so in the end, Yui actually is still a nice girl. So her character doesn't really change. Contrived.

And the whole thing with the dialogue essentially masking the word 'love' felt massively pointless when everyone knows what's being talked about, right in front of each other. I don't even think you can count that as masking anymore. It's obvious, just spoken in a roundabout way.

Overall, I was disappointed in the path the story took. It went from having something unique, to destroying it and then adding a pretty 'meh' love-triangle (or harem if you want to add Iroha) drama. Some of the harem comedy stuff got pretty annoying too. Contrivances were still plenty in order to solve problems the Hachi way, and boy, that other group of friends is sure broken as hell. In fact, the only genuine person in the show seemed to be Tobe (oh and Totsuka and the anime guy, but they didn't really have any issues to deal with).

[Quol]

The way i see it is Haruno's patience has been slowly waning the entire series (and even before the series started) Haruno views Yukino as someone who cant think for herself and while it was cute when Yukino was younger now its starting to annoy Haruno.
The final push is how even though Yukino seems to be growing as a person she is really just spinning in place (like the Ferris wheel metaphor in episode 13) and Haruno just cant take it anymore, in her opinion telling Yukino how to fix it would just be telling Yukino what to do which was the original problem.

Of course this is all just my opinion, Haruno could just be a sadistic person that takes joy in tormenting people that interest her.

Also for the 13th episode, im not sure if it was just me but the episode was sending some polygamy vibes (i wouldnt mind it though)

[Marcus H.]

Overall, I was disappointed in the path the story took. It went from having something unique, to destroying it and then adding a pretty 'meh' love-triangle (or harem if you want to add Iroha) drama. Some of the harem comedy stuff got pretty annoying too. Contrivances were still plenty in order to solve problems the Hachi way, and boy, that other group of friends is sure broken as hell. In fact, the only genuine person in the show seemed to be Tobe (oh and Totsuka and the anime guy, but they didn't really have any issues to deal with).

This route is the inevitable path all "school club comedy/dramas" take. Haganai is obvious, but there's also that LN adaptation by Trigger and of course, SKET Dance. I guess it carries the message of "the world is bigger than this school club and thus, walls have to be expanded to accommodate it".

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I think the degree of your appreciation & investment depends on how much you can relate to and understand some characters or some situations in this series. Also, this series is more addressing the "flaw of (Japanese) everyday social-relationship" more than anything. After all, we get the POV of a socially-awkward rottenly-cynical boy with his “distorted” view of society with hilarious descriptions (like him prefer to be a bear and other silly stuffs like that). But surprisingly (to many people who saw it for the first time) some of his descriptions actually hold water and speaks volumes about the society as we know it (teenaage-Japanese society in particular). One example, some people don’t mind (and even hold onto) a very shallow relationship with others as long as they have “friends” to talk to or a group to hang out with. After all, not everyone is blessed with BFFs that understand and know you inside out. This is contrary to, for example, many (shounen) anime out there which over-glorified friendship as “teh greatest bond evahhh!!!” and actually addresses the nature of people's friendship in real life.

As for those who said that the anime (both seasons) is phenomenal or absolutely amazing, well they might’ve said what they genuinely feel, but again it really depends on each person’s investement and understanding of the story. All that said, there are also those who like to exaggerate like crazy. In that case, you should take what they said with a grain of salt .

I myself never feel that this series is an absolute masterpiece, but I think it passes the “great” and “very good” standard easily due to its content.

Okay, well, looking at it that way, the series definitely has a much deeper message than I had originally thought. It was more obvious to me in the first season, but in the second season it got a little more subtle. I'd argue that the whole I want something real, makes tons of sense now, lol.

The series definitely would be much higher rated when keeping that in mind. Though, I'm not very good at imagining this sort of thing because my personality involves saying and communicating exactly what's on my mind since I'm not very good at faking how I feel, and I'm also impulsive (ADHD).

I was a bit confused since at the beginning of the series Hikigaya was the one showing off his ideals, but in season 2 he's the one whose mentality is crumbling. This made me question whether or not this was actually critiquing Japanese social life. But... keeping what you are saying in mind and seeing how this is a critique of Japanese social culture, I can easily see how this would be extremely popular and meaningful in Japan. Just wow.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by monster

I think I get that, it's just that I don't remember the previous season being this frustrating to watch. It's like watching people interacting with each other based on some unspoken secret they won't tell you and so the drama that ensues feels so jarring because you don't really get why it's happening.

Well, I think the first season was less “annoying” since our main characters are new to each other, and they pretty much still need to “introduce themselves” to each other (and the audience). Heck, even Hachiman’ inner monologue is more rampant in the first season so that the audience understand him and know how he views the world. But as time goes by, the characters know each other better and better. Because of that, aside from techical stuff, they don’t really need to speak much when it involves their feelings or something they tried to hide. For example, how Yui made several attempts of indirect and roundabout confessions (or hinting her feelings) to Hachiman this season just to see his reaction. That needs a great deal of “fill in the blanks” from the audience to read between the lines, read Yui’s gestures and know what she meant or implied by that. And I’m sure 8man knows what’s going on, he just pretend to not notice and went along with it as long as it doesn’t require an actual answer from him. And there’s Yukinon who still doesn’t want to come clean with her problems to bot 8man & Yui. In fact, we know more of Yukino’s family problems from Haruno, and not Yukino herself.

I think the problem here is, our MC Hachiman knows more than us (the audience) but he doesn’t share it to us via his usual inner monologues like in season 1, making the situation ambiguous and mysterious and harder to understand. Like that one moment when he was staring at Hayama when Yukinon’s mom came to meet them.

Originally Posted by monster

The worst part is the whole deal with Yukino's sister. She's so annoying this season, but I can't fully appreciate even that reaction when I don't really understand why she's acting the way she does.

Yup, this is the problem with overarching anime adapted from on-going novels. Right now we can’t really judge her character until the author reveals all her cards. What we do know is that Haruno becomes even “crueler” to Yukino and our gang this season.


@dniv
It's nice to see you willing to see and appreciate things from different perspective

[Mubyoshi]

So... Harem ending for the win?

[Benigmatica]

Episode 13:
Wow, did feel end this second season on a cliffhanger? If the author of the light novel is involved on the third season, I'm hoping that Wataru Watari and the staff would focus on resolving Yukino's personal woes!

Anyways, it's a great step-up from the first season where we see "genuine" moments, but I wish that I want more in the future.

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by steam fish

that scene when hachiman went to yukino after the penguins, could it be seen as him choosing yukino over yui?

Going by the novels, Yui was the one who told Hikki to go over to Yukino.

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

You're not alone in that sentiment, monster. Haruno is no longer that whimsical older sister who teases Yukino around. She now shows a deeper kind of dislike against her, as if she wants Yukino to just "fuck off, period", but she won't exactly tell her how.

Haruno won't perpetuate Yukino's problem by giving her directions, even if her antagonistic methods certainly paints her as acting with a personal grudge. There's probably a parallel between Haruno and Yukino much like between Hayama and Hachiman. Haruno wants her sister to be worthy of her freedom on top of growing out of her dependency issue. And like the guys, there is respect and dislike mixed into it.

Originally Posted by dniv

I was a bit confused since at the beginning of the series Hikigaya was the one showing off his ideals, but in season 2 he's the one whose mentality is crumbling. This made me question whether or not this was actually critiquing Japanese social life. But... keeping what you are saying in mind and seeing how this is a critique of Japanese social culture, I can easily see how this would be extremely popular and meaningful in Japan. Just wow.

I reckon one of the appeals for Oregairu is Hachiman's vulnerability as well. The christmas event arc tested the limits of his mentality and methodology and he failed even with advice from Shizuka, ultimately because he wasn't honest and stuck to his guns to the end. The series challenges and critiques Hachiman and it certainly doesn't allow him to recover from his mistakes before he learns his lesson, one way or the other.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

And there’s Yukinon who still doesn’t want to come clean with her problems to bot 8man & Yui. In fact, we know more of Yukino’s family problems from Haruno, and not Yukino herself.

The anime did a disservice to Yukino here when they rushed through Yumiko's request of finding out Hayama's choice between humanities and the sciences. The club wasn't getting anywhere with the request and Yukino actually volunteered information about her and Hayama's family due to their close relations. Minor perhaps but it did show Yukino trusted her friends enough to reveal some information about her family and about her to an extent. Going further back, Yukino's first encounter with Rumi revealed her distorted views she held about her mother and the influence the parent held over Yukino.

Kinda headscratching they would opt to leave out such developments since it's obvious Yukino's problems was going to be explored further but it's a obvious flaw this season developed for the uneven pace they adopted to cover as much of the novel material as possible over a good ending point.

[Marcus H.]

Haruno won't perpetuate Yukino's problem by giving her directions, even if her antagonistic methods certainly paints her as acting with a personal grudge. There's probably a parallel between Haruno and Yukino much like between Hayama and Hachiman. Haruno wants her sister to be worthy of her freedom on top of growing out of her dependency issue. And like the guys, there is respect and dislike mixed into it.

I understood the thing between Hayama and Hachiman because there's some form of "respect" between the two and the guys aren't siblings. However, blame a possible culture clash here, but I feel that Haruno shouldn't even be meddling to that extent over Yukino's freedom, even if Yukino seems like she's incapable of doing so. They have their own freaking lives too, for God's sake, and Haruno's constant questioning about Yukino's freedom, if it really is for the sake of Yukino's freedom, is starting to become counterproductive, something that Yukino's call to Haruno is pointing out.

[RapidPotential]

God, the last episode was more frustrating than anything else for me. Frustration because of the passive approach Yukino has decided to adopt when faced with her problems. There is lack of proactivity in contrast to the previously more proactive Yukino we had seen back in season 1. Back then, she was still trying to approach problems with possible solutions, which gradually seemed to disappear when she probably realised she was no longer alone and had people to rely on.

The scene that captured her inability to face her problems was the one where she mimicked Hachiman's words, exactly as they were, to her sister. Relying upon the semantics on somebody else's words to give herself some breathing room had previously been unexpected of her, and both Yui and Hachiman had realised that she was heading in a direction that would ultimately ruin what she had sought to achieve before.

It was also incredibly annoying and painful to watch her growing dependence on others, highlighted best when several times in the beginning, Yukino was giving desperate glances (practically screaming "Don't leave me alone") toward both Yui and Hachiman when they appeared to distance themselves from getting involved in her family issues. It is quite a change for her, plus her increasingly docile reactions to Hachiman would not have happened before the events of episode 9. The fact that she was expectant of Hachiman's comments about her birthday present was also an indicator of how much she had regressed, as she would have brushed off his comments previously.

We could all see her holding back on her feelings regarding Hachiman. At this point, she probably hasn't fully realised that she has fallen for him already, but she appeared to be aware of Yui's own feelings for Hachiman, and seemed to hesitate on giving him the cookies she made. However fragile she had become, she appeared to nearly crack under Yui's prodding. It was quite difficult to watch her as she was about to meekly surrender everything without any resistance, which Hachiman managed to stop dead in the end.

I was glad to see her gather up some courage and get a backbone back at the very end, yet I feel that Hachiman has become a literal emotional crutch for Yukino.

On a side note, it'd be quite amusing to see how the future would be like for Hachiman if he ended up married to different heroines. Would he still be a house-husband, or would he finally change and grow out of his cynicism?

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I understood the thing between Hayama and Hachiman because there's some form of "respect" between the two and the guys aren't siblings. However, blame a possible culture clash here, but I feel that Haruno shouldn't even be meddling to that extent over Yukino's freedom, even if Yukino seems like she's incapable of doing so. They have their own freaking lives too, for God's sake, and Haruno's constant questioning about Yukino's freedom, if it really is for the sake of Yukino's freedom, is starting to become counterproductive, something that Yukino's call to Haruno is pointing out.

There is the problem of a closing timeframe as well, which might explain Haruno's escalating antagonism. Yukino returned from exchange and suffered from the same social problems she did in the past (being bullied and having no one to turn to). A year later she goes to high school and is now apart from the family. Another year before she's found two people who empathizes and tries to understand her problems but she hasn't made taken charge of her problems. Haruno exerts this over Yukino as force of proof the latter can't handle her affairs properly and she has to come in and assume responsibility instead, per directive of their mother. The phonecall wasn't counterproductive imo, just a indicative symptom of Yukino's problem since by then she was surrendering initiative wholly over to Hachiman's words instead of thinking for herself.

If Yukino doesn't manage to find a solution soon she'll be shunted further away from her family come university time. There's no guarantee Yui and Hachiman will still be around for her by then.Forcing the problem while there's still help at hand might be more desirable in Haruno's eyes than dragging it out further.

Or considering Haruno's from the sciences, she might just be taking the engineer's adage of 'fix it until it breaks' to the extreme in her handling of Yukino's affairs. Disturbing but probable given Haruno's tendencies in which case you'll be entirely right.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by RapidPotential

On a side note, it'd be quite amusing to see how the future would be like for Hachiman if he ended up married to different heroines. Would he still be a house-husband, or would he finally change and grow out of his cynicism?

Hachiman never actually wanted to become a house-husband seriously. As mentioned in the previous episode, he doesn't know how to cook.

Something that's also mentioned in one of the side story novels is that he hasn't improved one bit. He used to make junk food like instant ramen (albeit spiced up with extra ingredients) for Komachi way back, but he hasn't improved one bit.

Claiming he wants to be a house-husband is just him soapboxing about how he'd like to stay at home all day. In reality, he really couldn't do all the chores required out of a live at home spouse.

[SuitUp]

Originally Posted by Tormenk

If Yukino doesn't manage to find a solution soon she'll be shunted further away from her family come university time.

That actually wouldn't be such a bad thing in itself , I mean, anyone would have issue having family like that of Yukinon's, with her mother who the only times she has appeared is to say manipulative things to Yukinon, and Haruno, who is exactly the sort of person you wouldn't want around you even if you're emotionally healthy, wich Yukinon isn't

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I understood the thing between Hayama and Hachiman because there's some form of "respect" between the two and the guys aren't siblings. However, blame a possible culture clash here, but I feel that Haruno shouldn't even be meddling to that extent over Yukino's freedom, even if Yukino seems like she's incapable of doing so. They have their own freaking lives too, for God's sake, and Haruno's constant questioning about Yukino's freedom, if it really is for the sake of Yukino's freedom, is starting to become counterproductive, something that Yukino's call to Haruno is pointing out.

Having an imposing family is actually more common than you think.

You know those heavily stereotyped Asian families, where the child gets no respect unless they're the perfect model student with their careers as lawyers or doctors set in stone? There are families similar to that, and Yukino's situation is not far off from them.


Also, on the flipside, leaving Yukino alone to her own devices hasn't helped her break out of her shell either. Knowing her issues now, it's strongly implied that the reason Hayama distanced himself from Yukino despite being close to her family in the past is because he also realized her dependency problem.

[Marcus H.]

The phonecall wasn't counterproductive imo, just a indicative symptom of Yukino's problem since by then she was surrendering initiative wholly over to Hachiman's words instead of thinking for herself.

Wait no, I wasn't pertaining to the phonecall as counterproductive. It's more like the rest of what Haruno has done throughout the second season helps little in Yukino's problem.

Or considering Haruno's from the sciences, she might just be taking the engineer's adage of 'fix it until it breaks' to the extreme in her handling of Yukino's affairs. Disturbing but probable given Haruno's tendencies in which case you'll be entirely right.

Yukino reminds me of an egg, really, and Haruno doesn't know if she's raw or hard-boiled. Regardless, she'll trying going Columbus over Yukino, not knowing (or secretly anticipating) what would happen next.

You know those heavily stereotyped Asian families, where the child gets no respect unless they're the perfect model student with their careers as lawyers or doctors set in stone? There are families similar to that, and Yukino's situation is not far off from them.

Ah right, families from the upper echelons of society or severely impoverished ones desperate for the littlest signs of glory. Fortunately, my family, practical as they are, doesn't think like that.

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by SuitUp

That actually wouldn't be such a bad thing in itself , I mean, anyone would have issue having family like that of Yukinon's, with her mother who the only times she has appeared is to say manipulative things to Yukinon, and Haruno, who is exactly the sort of person you wouldn't want around you even if you're emotionally healthy, wich Yukinon isn't

It wouldn't but the unresolved baggage will weigh on her for the rest of her life until she solves it or manages to reach closure somehow. On the other hand if Yukino overcomes her family issue that she's grappled with for the majority of her life she's going to be imbued with enough confidence to handle anything else thrown at her in the future. In the sense of "I can handle my tiger mum and my devil sister now, NOTHING's going to hold me back anymore."

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Wait no, I wasn't pertaining to the phonecall as counterproductive. It's more like the rest of what Haruno has done throughout the second season helps little in Yukino's problem.

It's debatable but her methods differ little from the past season. Haruno can only do so much to escalate her role or resort to the people around Yukino for effect. I can only put the main reason down to Yukino lost confidence since the cultural festival to rebutt Haruno as she did back then.

[RapidPotential]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Hachiman never actually wanted to become a house-husband seriously. As mentioned in the previous episode, he doesn't know how to cook.

Something that's also mentioned in one of the side story novels is that he hasn't improved one bit. He used to make junk food like instant ramen (albeit spiced up with extra ingredients) for Komachi way back, but he hasn't improved one bit.

Claiming he wants to be a house-husband is just him soapboxing about how he'd like to stay at home all day. In reality, he really couldn't do all the chores required out of a live at home spouse.

Well, I did take into account he wanted to stay at home instead of working. I still remember his motto of "You work, you lose".

In fact, I realised apart of Yui, most of the other girls he knows can cook.

[~Yami~]

whoa! is this really the end?

Haruno just appeared at the worst time.. but it also implied that she basically can't bear to see this Yukinon anymore
Yui is the real ace in here.. she holds the initiative, build the momentum, and strike at right moment
Hikigaya also got his moment to say what it is in his mind
Finally, it struck Yukinon.. I think at the end, we finally see our old Yukinon

Yui simply just saying that... "c'mon! We already aware of our feelings to each other! Let's just speak up and move forward a little! If you don't want to move or talk, I'll take the prize"
basically, this moment has re-defined their relations and I think it is not a bad change
next season probably start in full throttle to solve Yukino's problem
after that, we will be back in this love-triangle deadlock