[Manga] Chapter 351 Discussion

[onepiecelover]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

Yeah i was thinking that also, But being an Uchiha means you have a very large snake, in this case it's two massive snakes, everything gets bigger when it has been Uchihafied.

It doesn't matter whose snake is bigger, it matters how you use them

and on a side note if I see one more chapters of sasuke I will kill myself, the name is the series is NARUTO !!!

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Sasuke always (after the massacre) had killing intent towards his brother, just remember when he attacked him with chidori in the hotel corridor.
Also remember that Orochimaru didn't want to kill Sasuke when Sasuke was feeling killer intent, simply bacause Orochimaru wanted his body so he would never kill him, which means Orochimaru and now also Sasuke can make you feel a strong killing intent which is clearly fake, that's their ability. Sasuke in this chapter has shown that he has learned Orochimaru's abilities:
- killing intent, when faking it i would call it a sort of a genjutsu
- snake jutsu

Killing intent isn't Oro's ability, it's something everybody has and it's absolutely nothing like Genjutsu which is about controling chakra into the opponent's brain. What's impressive however is how powerful it is with Sasuke.
One thing though, it isn't neccessary "fake". This is precisely what Suigetsu was wondering about after this threat. This scene wasn't merely to show who's the boss in the crew, it's meant to further show Sasuke's ambiguity.
Suigetsu -and us through him- doesn't know if this murderous intent was"real" or if it was the real Sasuke.

Originally Posted by onepiecelover

and on a side note if I see one more chapters of sasuke I will kill myself, the name is the series is NARUTO !!!

You better prepare the rope then, this was probably just the intro of a whole arc ^^

[Rurouni Zeke]

Originally Posted by onepiecelover

It doesn't matter whose snake is bigger, it matters how you use them

and on a side note if I see one more chapters of sasuke I will kill myself, the name is the series is NARUTO !!!

Now now, there's no need to kill yourself over a manga. Naruto isn't doing anything but eating ramen and nursing a broken arm anyway (and I'm kinda grumpy about that, but that's a different subject).

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Killing intent isn't Oro's ability, it's something everybody has and it's absolutely nothing like Genjutsu which is about controling chakra into the opponent's brain. What's impressive however is how powerful it is with Sasuke.
One thing though, it isn't neccessary "fake". This is precisely what Suigetsu was wondering about after this threat. This scene wasn't merely to show who's the boss in the crew, it's meant to further show Sasuke's ambiguity.
Suigetsu -and us through him- doesn't know if this murderous intent was"real" or if it was the real Sasuke.

In my opinion such feelings and thoughts can be detected by others so they can sense your presence. And the best ninja can suppress them in order to not give away their presence. So killing intent by itself is emitted from you involuntarily as opposed to a voluntary use of a killing intent. And if we regard genjutsu as a voluntary use of your own mind to attack the other's mind while regarding any other involuntary effect not genjutsu than this "killing intent" by both Orochimaru and Sasuke was a genjutsu. Furthermore if we know that in reality they didn't have such a crazy strong killing intent we can conclude that making others feel something that exists in reality (thus killing intent exists, but is not something you control) while you don't have it is a genjutsu. The other conclusion can also be that Sasuke and Orochimaru had so strong mind control over their own feelings that they could induce strong killing intent in their mind. In the latter case it's not a genjutsu, however i don't think someone can make himself feel something what he does not feel in reality. And of course if i were such a high level ninja i would not manipulate my own mind when i can manipulate the minds of others

[Mists]

Wow, what a great chapter. I'm beginning to like this manga.

I hope they find Akatsuki and Itachi, wipes them out and then Jiaraya says to Naruto (I think that was his name) "Hey, Akatsuki is gone..."
"REALLY?"
"Sasuke wiped them out!"
"No WAY!"
"That's what my sources tell me..."

tsu: "I'm afraid it's so..."
"So is Sasuke coming back to Konoha now?"

J: "I'm afraid not...you'll have to fight him...but something tells me he's already dead."


Bam the end of Sasuke and Co.

Not a bad way to end the manga though!

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Killing intent isn't Oro's ability, it's something everybody has and it's absolutely nothing like Genjutsu which is about controling chakra into the opponent's brain. What's impressive however is how powerful it is with Sasuke.
One thing though, it isn't neccessary "fake". This is precisely what Suigetsu was wondering about after this threat. This scene wasn't merely to show who's the boss in the crew, it's meant to further show Sasuke's ambiguity.
Suigetsu -and us through him- doesn't know if this murderous intent was"real" or if it was the real Sasuke.

I don't see anything ambigious about that scene. Suigetsu clearly felt fear from the intensity of Sasuke's killing intent, letting us know how powerful (and sinister) Sasuke has become.

Thus far Suigetsu has been the reluctant subordinate of Sasuke with the belief that he was capable of taking Sasuke out if need be, but now I think he might have second thoughts about being disobedient to Sasuke.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

In my opinion such feelings and thoughts can be detected by others so they can sense your presence. And the best ninja can suppress them in order to not give away their presence. So killing intent by itself is emitted from you involuntarily as opposed to a voluntary use of a killing intent. And if we regard genjutsu as a voluntary use of your own mind to attack the other's mind while regarding any other involuntary effect not genjutsu than this "killing intent" by both Orochimaru and Sasuke was a genjutsu. Furthermore if we know that in reality they didn't have such a crazy strong killing intent we can conclude that making others feel something that exists in reality (thus killing intent exists, but is not something you control) while you don't have it is a genjutsu. The other conclusion can also be that Sasuke and Orochimaru had so strong mind control over their own feelings that they could induce strong killing intent in their mind. In the latter case it's not a genjutsu, however i don't think someone can make himself feel something what he does not feel in reality. And of course if i were such a high level ninja i would not manipulate my own mind when i can manipulate the minds of others

I think killing intent is very much voluntary. The only exception would be when you let your emotions consume you and lose control.

Orochimaru clearly expressed his intent towards Sasuke and Sakura.

Neji's father did the same to show Neji the horrible reality of their place within the Hyuuga hierarchy.

If Sasuke used killing intent on Sai then he did it voluntarily because Kabuto scolded him.

"Killing intent" is basically the sense of danger prey feels from a predator.

It's about expressing violent thoughts through body language but in the Japanese concept it is somewhat spiritual as Ki is being manipulated and the aggression can be sensed.

Here is an excerpt from a martial arts webpage on the concept:

The harmony with the universal force implied in the concept of kiai is in no way limited to the body of each individual alone. As in the foregoing story, we can often feel the force of intentions themselves, far ahead of any physical action that may involve us subsequently. Even if no actions follow, we have no doubt experienced the other person's intention. We know they were committed and that they later chose not to follow through with their actions. This bending of the ki force is known as sakki, or "force of the killer." It is the feeling that our intentions project when we are determined to destroy someone else. Animals as well as humans project this sakki as a natural part of their determination to overtake another being. In real life self-protection situations, the ability to blend in with the ki of another and pick up the sakki directed at the target is a crucial skill for emerging alive from the conflict. That skill is perhaps the most significant difference that separates Aidudo training from the more popular, sport, martial arts training.

Source: Aibudo.com

In Bujinkan, recognized as one of the few Martial Arts styles with a legitimate lineage derived from authentic Ninjutsu, there is a Sakki test to earn the rank of 5th degree black belt:

http://www.ninjutsu.com/godancur.shtml

[scorpio516]

Originally Posted by Kyu410

I think only Itachi will focus on Sasuke because the title did imply "Itachi's Whereabouts". I believe the next arc will focus on the Akatsuki and whether Sasuke tries to kill Itachi while keeping his team in control.

IMHO Itachi will either be the last Akatsuki to be dealt with or the last before the leader. Which also means Kisame goes right before him (I'm gonna guess - but with Zabuza's disciple roaming around free, he might be soon and Itachi gets a Tobi-esqe replacement)

That means either Diedra and Tobi are next or the lady and Zetsu.

[tatami]

i think sasuke plans different than directly going after itachi..

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by tatami

i think sasuke plans different than directly going after itachi..

Yes, Sasuke - sama has other plans he wants to world and everything in it!! after pwning Itachi Sasuke - sama will set his sights on everything else...a MASTER race an Uchiha race! When he speaks of rebuilding his clan it's gonna be rebuild to a full extent and YES! i can see it now, jus think about it ...mixed race Uchihas with shark like teeth living in Kirigakure! Sand Uchihas! Uchihas looking like Zetsu! Yes i have seen the future and the future is Sasuke Uchihas !!!!!!!!!!!!

He will bring peace and safety to the world...amen.

[Kyu410]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

Yes, Sasuke - sama has other plans he wants to world and everything in it!! after pwning Itachi Sasuke - sama will set his sights on everything else...a MASTER race an Uchiha race! When he speaks of rebuilding his clan it's gonna be rebuild to a full extent and YES! i can see it now, jus think about it ...mixed race Uchihas with shark like teeth living in Kirigakure! Sand Uchihas! Uchihas looking like Zetsu! Yes i have seen the future and the future is Sasuke Uchihas !!!!!!!!!!!!

He will bring peace and safety to the world...amen.

LOL That would be pretty cool but I wouldn't mind seeing a few people who look like Naruto or even Hinata.(of course she's hot)

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

I think killing intent is very much voluntary.

I disagree, emotions are emotions, you either have a feeling or not have it. There are two parts of this:
- to have the emotion/feeling itself
- to emit that emotion into the space so others who can sense such things are aware of it

For the first one i think it's the essence of a character, it's like what you think, you can't just not feel something or can you? Someone can be controlled by emotions or by the inteligence, however even if you have your emotions (hate/love/etc...) under control it's still there.

For the second one, i think high level ninja can control it very well.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

For the second one, i think high level ninja can control it very well.

This is what I was saying. If they emit it, it is a voluntary emotion, it isn't simply instinctive (automatic etc.).

It's something they can "turn on" at will, which is how it has always been portrayed in the manga.

[majin_vegeta]

Sakki or blood lust in this chapter is something that is being controlled. Sausuke decided to stop playing with them for a while. They saw behind the mask of the demon that is Uchiha and they were scared shitless. Sausuke is just that bad ass. Well, not really, but he does seem to be bad ass to lower level nin. Let's wait and see if his Killing intent works on a Nin of Kakashi's level, hell even Rock Lee's level. So far we don't really have a gage to judge his crew by. They haven't faught anyone substantial. Until then, lets just wait and see what's what.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by majin_vegeta

Sakki or blood lust in this chapter is something that is being controlled. Sausuke decided to stop playing with them for a while. They saw behind the mask of the demon that is Uchiha and they were scared shitless. Sausuke is just that bad ass. Well, not really, but he does seem to be bad ass to lower level nin. Let's wait and see if his Killing intent works on a Nin of Kakashi's level, hell even Rock Lee's level. So far we don't really have a gage to judge his crew by. They haven't faught anyone substantial. Until then, lets just wait and see what's what.

I don't think Sasuke emitting his Sakki is going to become a theme. I think Kishimoto just uses it when unfamiliar characters encounter each other, or when a character has grown and encounters someone he has not seen in awhile.

As far as power level is concerned, I would not consider Sasuke's teammates to be low level. He has chosen them out of the many "strong shinobi" he has access to from Orochimaru's lairs.

They all appear to be about his age so I expect them to be at the skill level of most of the high level ninja.

Naruto himself is repeatedly stated to be on par with Kakashi so I'd expect the strongest of ninja in their age group to approach that level.

Suigetsu has challenged Sasuke's authority and insinuated that he could beat him, although I think he is just full of himself. But I do think they are all quite strong.

[itachi29al]

Was kinda hoping that the juugo battle would be longer.Also i was wondering what was happening back in Kohna. Oh, well.

[abazou]

Originally Posted by onepiecelover

It doesn't matter whose snake is bigger, it matters how you use them

and on a side note if I see one more chapters of sasuke I will kill myself, the name is the series is NARUTO !!!

I suggest poison then or maybe hanging yourself

[AvatarAlpha]

Originally Posted by majin_vegeta

Let's wait and see if his Killing intent works on a Nin of Kakashi's level, hell even Rock Lee's level. So far we don't really have a gage to judge his crew by. They haven't faught anyone substantial. Until then, lets just wait and see what's what.

Rock Lee lost to Kimimaro and Kishi has implied Juugo is stronger. Naruto had to go K1 to defeat Sasuke in CS2 form and in chapter 350 Sasuke and Suigetsu defeat a small army of such characters. Shikamaru, Neji, Choji, and Kiba were all taken to their limits to defeat the Sound Four. I think Kishi has given us more than enough comparison to "low level nins" to judge this crew. As for nins Kakashi's level, Naruto and Kakashi were defeated by Deidara, Kisame and Itachi. Kakashi, Choji, and Ino would have been defeated by Kakuzu if it weren't for Team Yamato's arrival. And Kishi implied through Oro that Sasuke could defeat Naruto K3.

Personally I believe Team Sasuke is of the same level as Team Yamato. Perhaps stronger, because we do not know the extent of their abilities, but then again we really haven't seen the full potential of Sakura and Sai either.

[tatami]

you say that yet sasuke alone pwned team yamato himself...

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by tatami

you say that yet sasuke alone pwned team yamato himself...

Yeah it was total rapage by Sasuke.

[tatami]

hehe and he was just woke up from his napping...

yet it was first meeting team yamato was far from being a team...
i mean:

sai: no team work at that moment
sakura:dumb
yamato:try to establish a team work control sai sakura and naruto and sasuke
naruto: dumb (less than sakura)

and i dunno how kishi place sai and yamato...

naruto s team is now sakura sai yamato kakashi...