News Stories

[ZephyrLeanne]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Yippee! Spacemen get to drink pee!

NeWater in space for the win.

Thai PM removes chief of police

Thailand's Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat has fired the chief of the national police force, officials say.
The news comes amid mounting tensions over the ongoing protests paralysing Bangkok's two airports.
Police have now ordered protesters to quit the smaller Don Mueang airport, reports say, while riot police are in place at the international airport.

[Shadow Kira01]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...SNAWAD94NHIPG1
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/as...ef=mpstoryview

Regarding the situation in Mumbai, I am rather confused now. I thought it was cleared up on Thursday, yet I have learned that Taj Hotel is still under militant control. Why is the death toll still increasing if the situation is now stable and under control? I don't get it.

Edit: Okay, I get it now. Although the Indian commandoes have taken back the city of Mumbai, some of the terrorists are still alive and out there, possibly holding up at Taj Hotel. Hopefully, the situation will come to a peaceful end soon!!

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Update on the Mumbai attacks. As of now (1640 GMT, Nov 27), CNN estimates 125 deaths and more than 300 wounded. The Indian security forces are apparently preparing to make a final attack on the attackers in the Oberoi-Trident hotel.

The assailants call themselves the Deccan Mujahideen, a previously unheard of group. The men are of South Asian appearance and reportedly speak Hindi, indicating they originated in India. More interestingly, it appears that Indian security forces have captured at least one of them, so we may be getting more details on who these people really are, and more importantly, where they've launched their attacks from.

The language that Indian Prime Minister Mamohan Singh has been using is itself interesting. He has said that the attacks originate from a neighbouring country (contrary to what security forces on the ground are saying, see above paragraph), but stopped short of naming just which country that is. Of course, everyone knows he is referring to Pakistan, but it's still early days, so India is taking care to not point fingers without strong evidence.

For its part, Pakistan has already strongly condemned the attacks, and promises to do whatever it can to tackle "a common enemy", not just of India and Pakistan, but of the world.

It is also important to note that Pakistan is not the only possible origin of the attacks. Other militant groups hostile to India are known to operate from Bangladesh.

People are understandably asking if Al-Qaeda is involved. So far, no such signs. It's more likely, however, that the immediate impetus is domestic, rather than international. Indian parliamentary elections are ongoing at the moment, so these attacks may have been deliberately planned to disrupt the process. At the very least, they have as good as shut down Mumbai, the financial hub of India, so that in itself will most certainly affect the rest of the country.

Several attackers have already been confirmed to being LeT (Lashkar-e-Tayiba), a militant group originating from Pakistan. Though the involvement of either the deccan or indian mujahideen has not been confirmed, as an Indian I know that several of the terrorists are most probably of indian origin. I'm not quite sure what to make of the situation concerning Pakistan. Pakistan strongly condemns the attacks, yet the ISI refuses to send their leader over for talks. This is of course, was after a late night meeting between presdient zardari and general kayani ( initially the chief of the ISI was going to come ). well, I know exactly what to make of it, but i'm not going to say anything , since nothing has been officially confirmed ( and since my views are biased.. extremely so at the moment).

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/...as-planned.htm

[WanderingKnight]

Of course India is going to blame Pakistan. I don't think anyone should take that without a pinch of salt, though.

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Of course India is going to blame Pakistan. I don't think anyone should take that without a pinch of salt, though.

I agree, its high time we started realizing that several of these attacks are obviously of Indian origin. I mean, the economic situation for Muslims in India has gone from bad to worse since independence. However, while we should recognize that fact, the majority of attacks still do originate from Pakistan ( this one has already been confirmed as such - 'officially' at least ). By default we blame Pakistan now - this also serves to stop communal rioting from developing within India.

[Sazelyt]

Pakistan will not do anything. Or in better words, Pakistan cannot do anything.

To stop or prevent such attacks, they need to literally terrorize their own people, cause that is where Al Kaeda kind-of support for the radicals lies, and we are not talking about a small support here. And, westerners cannot do anything either. Cause unlike the poor Iraq, they do have the nukes to use in case the situation requires. Kind of like a combination of Iraq and North Korea, with the Al Kaeda thrown in the mix.

But, that attack was really a risky one. And, if it repeats, it may even awaken the normally non-existent side of the Indians to trigger a war we haven't seen before.

[Theowne]

I do not believe that India will rush into any sort of war with any other country - it is not in their best interests at the moment.

[Shadow Kira01]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Of course India is going to blame Pakistan. I don't think anyone should take that without a pinch of salt, though.

This isn't the first time Pakistan is having a military conflict with India, what's the surprise? Aside from that, Pakistan also have nuclear warheads to make things worse. India should carefully analyze the situation and do whatever that is appropriate to prevent a war. More importantly, the task right now should be to rebuild Mumbai and for the Hindu government to provide aid to the residents and foreigners of Mumbai for the time being. The diplomacy with Pakistan should be set aside right now, its not that important, considering that India-Pakistan relations had always been bad.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Theowne

I do not believe that India will rush into any sort of war with any other country - it is not in their best interests at the moment.

That is true, but what if it repeats. One, you can ignore, twice, you can still ignore, but, thrice. It may even anger the most pacifist.

Maybe that is also what those people want. Changing the course so that they can include more international players to make it more difficult for US to act, now that the President is changing, and the new one mentioning the name of Pakistan a lot of times, in the recent months, as a candidate to swallow the flames of US.

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by Shadow Minato

More importantly, the task right now should be to rebuild Mumbai and for the Hindu government to provide aid to the residents and foreigners of Mumbai for the time being.

India doesnt have a Hindu government.. the congress ( UPA ) is secular.. however, if the more 'hindu' government was in power ( the BJP ) the chances of retaliation would be much higher.

[Shadow Kira01]

Originally Posted by oompa loompa

India doesnt have a Hindu government.. the congress ( UPA ) is secular.. however, if the more 'hindu' government was in power ( the BJP ) the chances of retaliation would be much higher.

Actually, I used the term "Hindu" instead of "Indian", so that people won't get the government of that country mixed up with the Natives of North America. The term Indian can be applied to both the people of India and also the Natives of North America and possibly Europe.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Shadow Minato

Actually, I used the term "Hindu" instead of "Indian", so that people won't get the government of that country mixed up with the Natives of North America. The term Indian can be applied to both the people of India and also the Natives of North America and possibly Europe.

except when you used the term "Hindu Government" you implied that the government of India is a Therocracy.

There is a huge difference between calling the Indian Government, the Indian Government and a Hindu Government

Also calling the Indian Government a Indian Government is the correct term. The native american were call indians because columbus thought he reach India.

[Mr. DJ]

In the wake of Black Friday...I have nothing but vulgar words for the pathetic people involved here...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27957714

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081128/...wal_mart_death

[WanderingKnight]

India should carefully analyze the situation and do whatever that is appropriate to prevent a war.

What tells you they actually want to prevent a war?

They've been looking for an excuse to attack Pakistan since a long time ago. This might just be the perfect opportunity. You know, with the "preemptive wars" that are all the rage 'round the world right now.

[Theowne]

And exactly what evidence do you have that India wants to start a war with Pakistan, and has been "looking for an excuse" for ages?

India is more concerned with sustaining economic growth at the moment. There is nothing to gain with war with Pakistan. This attack is already going to cause troubles. A war would magnify them.

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

What tells you they actually want to prevent a war?

They've been looking for an excuse to attack Pakistan since a long time ago. This might just be the perfect opportunity. You know, with the "preemptive wars" that are all the rage 'round the world right now.

Where on earth did you get that idea? India's had plenty of excuses to start wars with Pakistan already, and has already had three wars with them. Four if you count Karghil.

Maybe 10 years ago, when neither country had nukes, one still might have been able to argue that India would want to start a war. Even if nuclear weapons werent in the picture, India is hardly in a position to wage a war with pakistan at the moment. Besides, Pakistan has a fairly powerful military to contend with anyways. Starting a war with Pakistan is the worst case scenario for India. In fact, its the worst case scenario for both countries.

It is highly unlikely that the executive Paksitani government would have anything to do with an attack of this magnitude. It is possible that the ISI was involved ( they do often operate on their own ). Even if they werent is not the issue. The reason India blamed Pakistan is because whether or not the Pakistani government was involved, the attack was carried out through Karachi.

It is of course unjust to blame the Pakistani government by default, but its not without reason. Besides, like i mentioned earlier, more than trying to start a war with Pakistan, it controls communal riots from taking place within India.

[WanderingKnight]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir

There's been already several armed conflicts between Pakistan and India over that region. And there's also the fact that, you know, both India and Pakistan take any opportunity they can to throw sparks at each other.

India is more concerned with sustaining economic growth at the moment.

Germany was concerned with overcoming a potential economic stalemate when they began invading other countries. Most of the wars the US fought outside their borders came in times of potential or actual economic struggle (in fact, there's going to be an increase of troops in Afghanistan, and we're probably going to see an escalation of conflict in Iran). This could very well be a similar case.

I'm not saying they'll actually start a war, but I wouldn't be naive enough to believe they don't want to.

[Theowne]

Tension != war, or else lots of countries would be at war. Pakistan and India have no great love for each other, sure. As for "economic struggles", considering the steady economic growth for the past while, I simply do not believe that India wants to start a war for any reason.

[WanderingKnight]

As for "economic struggles", considering the steady economic growth for the past while, I simply do not believe that India wants to start a war for any reason.

I repeat, a huge economic growth eventually leads to a stalemate (see Germany 1933-1938), which can often be masqueraded by a war. I know the idea of India attacking Pakistan is pure speculation, but your premise (as you've just stated it) has been proven incorrect by recent history already.

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

I'm not saying they'll actually start a war, but I wouldn't be naive enough to believe they don't want to.

IMO, if nothing else, just the fact that Pakistan is an armed nuclear power is enough to stop India from starting a war with them. Agreed, before, it would be different. The best example of this was the war in 1971. but now, if you add nuclear weapons into the picture, its a horrible idea no matter which way you slice it. Unless, India started funding anti-Pakistan militant groups, which is almost impossible, because nearly all such groups are anti-India as well.