Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion (second reincarnation)

[PhoenixG]

Originally Posted by DKN117

...You know, maybe I should have just kept them to myself, never introducing them to the public eye and keeping them for the mega-crossover fanfics I write for myself that are never posted on the web, remaining in my computer's documents for my eyes alone. I'm getting the vibe that it would've been best at this point.

Well I've heard this thing before from another writer (not pointing fingers here) but she changed and adapt to the community.

When posting something in public is not always it will accept it right away. Take the critic to your heart and alter stuff to fit better in.

You got some nice constructive criticism about your chars, and do something with that.

At least it isn't something like "that soooo coool" or "that just plain sucks". With that one can't improve.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by DKN117

...You know, maybe I should have just kept them to myself, never introducing them to the public eye and keeping them for the mega-crossover fanfics I write for myself that are never posted on the web, remaining in my computer's documents for my eyes alone. I'm getting the vibe that it would've been best at this point.

The first attempt is always sucky. Only reason I managed to miss that with my first profile on OCT1 was because I'd essentially spent 3 years exploring that charecter in 2 different fandoms, and did a revamp of sorts (Franz Jaeger's original form was a Navy pilot named Jack Anderson in an Ace Combat fic, and a Marine pilot named Jack Anderson in an Evangelion fic - so to an extent, Franz is an expy of an AR version of a fanfic charecter. ).

Even then though, I did 2 main revisions to the charecter... probably have to update the profile with a few things that I've recently decided on, thanks to Lowe and Aaron...

"Rescue Breaker!" "Rider Kick!"

Also, for great lulz for Aaron when he gets back: Lowe has proposed that live action Aurion be played by Gackt. I propose Hosokawa. Imagine the win of Hibiki's actor playing Aurion

[MeisterBabylon]

Shameless plugs aside, we are helping you after all, so work with us. There is still hope yet.

[DKN117]

I keep trying, but things never turn out for me. One of the main reasons my mega-crossover (60+ universes and counting) hasn't seen the public is I'm afraid it will be derided as n00bish (that and I mostly have semi-fleshed out skeletal frameworks for most "chapters", lacking the 'meat' of actual stories). ...I am still trying to think of a way to have Precia give the immortal line: "I'm gonna give this little gift of 14.9 megatons of 'fuck you' to the Flood on this continent".

[XenahortCharybdis]

Originally Posted by DKN117

I keep trying, but things never turn out for me. One of the main reasons my mega-crossover (60+ universes and counting) hasn't seen the public is I'm afraid it will be derided as n00bish (that and I mostly have semi-fleshed out skeletal frameworks for most "chapters", lacking the 'meat' of actual stories). ...I am still trying to think of a way to have Precia give the immortal line: "I'm gonna give this little gift of 14.9 megatons of 'fuck you' to the Flood on this continent".

Well, there's such a thing called 'collaboration' if you need help fleshing out stuff big time; it's not like we are each an island of stories, characters and ideas all to themselves either. At least you've gotten the primary step down - which is to have a plan, and that's something. The next is to refine them, and very often that's best done by bouncing it off other people.

Pain ----> Progress. No way around that. Welcome to the world.

And in terms of those 'immortal lines' and things like that. I don't mind the language myself, but it's best to keep those epithets under asterisks when you post them...and to try and keep them in character - scripting nightmares come about when you have an absolutely awesome line, but none of your characters would say it under 99.9999% of circumstances.

Speaking from personal experience...

[DKN117]

Well, it wouldn't be too out of character for my fics' version of Precia, who is pretty much the same as canon EXCEPT for a burning, all-consuming hatred of the Flood due to their role in her husband's death, so much so that she's willing to side with her worst enemies if it means a chance to kill some Flood. She hardly ever curses; the above incident was the only time so far she's ever used strong language.

[XenahortCharybdis]

Originally Posted by DKN117

Well, it wouldn't be too out of character for my fics' version of Precia, who is pretty much the same as canon EXCEPT for a burning, all-consuming hatred of the Flood due to their role in her husband's death, so much so that she's willing to side with her worst enemies if it means a chance to kill some Flood. She hardly ever curses; the above incident was the only time so far she's ever used strong language.

Oh, so you're already rumbling and good to go with that one already?

Then join the front line. And the party.

For the Greater Good!

[Tempy]

I've a few issues with multi-crossovers, one of them being confusion. Such a story could hit a point where there are just so many characters or ideas that we lose track of where they're from and their significance. Not only that, but the sheer number of characters can be difficult to juggle and flesh out sufficiently, something that StrikerS is supposedly guilty of. Too many elements, and the story becomes difficult to grasp and bring together.

If you can control it, then it may work. Doing so, however, is difficult.

Then there's the potential to spawn this kind of... atrocity:

Spoiler for oh god:

The only advice I can give you is to just write it and post it. If there are problems, we'll point them out. You will never improve if you fear criticism and shy away from others. Be like The Fool of the Tarot and take the leap of faith, or stagnate in your insecurities.

[DKN117]

So where exactly should I post the outlines I've made? Probably not in this very forum; the Nanoha-verse doesn't even get involved until (comparatively) late in the story (the War has so far been divided into four unofficial "phases", and Nanoha & co. get involved a little ways into Phase 4). And it's not all anime: there's a lot of western-animation, film, literature, and video-game 'verses involved (for example, the Sangheili Alliance [Halo-verse] forms a considerable portion of the Dimensional Defense Force's armed forces, with Sangheili-built ships making up a significant chunk of the DDF's space forces). What forum in which section of this site would they best fit in?

[Nya~n]

then i'd suggest how lowe does his profiles - break the profile into several (large) portions. Lowe has a flair for telling the character's story using just their profiles alone, so maybe you could have an entire portions dedicated to the backstory up till the point where Nanaha and Co step in.

[DKN117]

Originally Posted by Nya~n

then i'd suggest how lowe does his profiles - break the profile into several (large) portions. Lowe has a flair for telling the character's story using just their profiles alone, so maybe you could have an entire portions dedicated to the backstory up till the point where Nanaha and Co step in.

That would completely leave out all the epic things that happen before the Nanoha-verse is involved. There are LOTS of important battles, important people, and important events that take place in the earlier parts of The War, ESPECIALLY in Phase 3.

[GlancingReverse]

Suggestion? Try making it so that whoever is involved in 1-3 tell whoever from Nanoha that gets involved what happened in 1-3. Might work.

[Tempy]

Originally Posted by DKN117

So where exactly should I post the outlines I've made? Probably not in this very forum; the Nanoha-verse doesn't even get involved until (comparatively) late in the story (the War has so far been divided into four unofficial "phases", and Nanoha & co. get involved a little ways into Phase 4). And it's not all anime: there's a lot of western-animation, film, literature, and video-game 'verses involved (for example, the Sangheili Alliance [Halo-verse] forms a considerable portion of the Dimensional Defense Force's armed forces, with Sangheili-built ships making up a significant chunk of the DDF's space forces). What forum in which section of this site would they best fit in?

If I am understanding you right, what you seek is a multi-crossover that does not have Nanoha as its center. In that case, that sort of deal would probably fit in at the Fan Creations section of ASuki best. The only problem there is that you'll be competing against everyone else that wants to post something.

[DKN117]

How 'bout I just put down here the campaigns that involve the Nanoha-verse?

[Tempy]

Originally Posted by DKN117

How 'bout I just put down here the campaigns that involve the Nanoha-verse?

You can do that, but readers will be somewhat confused as to who and what all these new people are and their significance. As you've said, the Nanoha material comes into play in the fourth part, meaning once you post it in here, readers will have to catch up on three entire sections before they can begin to read yours. It will be like making you watch The Return of the Jedi without having you watch any of the original trilogy first, resulting in a delay as readers catch up.

My reasoning is not to dissuade you from writing, but to minimize confusion and improve efficiency.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Okay guys, need a quick word here:

After posting up Chapter 8, I got some interesting responses as to the result of Crash going berserk. The most detailed responses actually approached why everything managed to go to hell in a handbasket. Since it did, and the chapter came off so well... I think I'm going to hold onto it and create a point of address in the story.

So I expanded on the following comment:

Originally Posted by Crash, Chapter 8

“They’re disregarding safety procedure AA-22 in relation to having medical personnel on standby during a combat trial?”

You guys will shit puppies and kittens if I let Nanoha have a dose of incompetence right after getting chewed out in this chapter, and I'm suspecting that likewise, letting Roland make a judgement mistake in terms of letting this go forward under the assumption that everything would be fine if there was a serious safety issue involved would also make people question his competence.

So my workaround is to introduce some loopholes and failures in communication that lead up to this.

To start, I'm difining what AA-22 and the rules around it are.

Safety Procedures: AA-2X "Defining Hazardous Training Activity and Safety Oversight"

Originally Posted by Safety Procedure AA-20a

A hazardous exercise is defined as any routine in which participants are interacting with unquantifiable or non-BioSafe magical or non-magical elements that may cause serious physical injury.

(Define a hazardous activity.)

Originally Posted by Safety Procedure AA-20b

Magical attacks classified under article 17 of the Magical Weapons and Skills Protocal to be 'BioSafe' up to and including 'Attacks which render a loss of conciousness' are to be considered as Non-hazardous under normal operational circumstances and may be practiced in exercise without supervision.

(Exactly what the Non-Hazardous activities are.)

Originally Posted by Safety Procedure AA-20c

Any exercise which contains ten (10) or more participants is to be deemed Hazardous by default.

('Just in Case' provision. Large groups doing things are ALWAYS hazardous.)

Originally Posted by Safety Procedure AA-21

A combat instructor or other exclusive Supervisor is required to supervise any mage to mage exercise deemed Non-Hazardous for any number of participants greater than three (3). For exercises deemed as Hazardous, an instructor or other exclusive supervisor is required to be on hand for any number.

(Define exactly when you need to have some kind of supervisor on hand.)

Originally Posted by Safety Procedure AA-22

It is required of any unit participating in a hazardous exercise where there is potential for serious or life threatening injury, that an absolute minimum of one (1) qualified emergency medical specialist to be in direct supervision of the exercise at all times.

(Define the requirement for medical personele)

Originally Posted by Safety Procedure AA-23

It is required that a Qualified Medical Specialist cannot participate in the activities of a hazardous exercise except in cases defined as Combat Medical Training Activity under SP AC-12.

(Define that the Medical personele cannot be a participant in a mock battle, and supervise medical safety at the same time.)

Originally Posted by Safety Procedure AA-24

Qualified Medical Specialists may not act as Combat Supervisor during a Hazardous Exercise. Likewise, a Combat Supervisor may not act as a Medical Specialist, reguardless of Qualification.

(Define that you can be one, or the other, but never both.)

Originally Posted by Safety Procedure AA-25

During any Hazardous Exercise it is required that a universal safe word is to be known by all participants of the exercise in the event of a situation going wrong. If the safe word is used, the activity must be immediately halted.

Okay, here's how it works. It was a clusterfuck. A freak occurance of epic proportions.
It's not really anyone's fault, and yet its everyone's fault.


Nanoha's initial activities were acceptably safe. Her morning routine was considered a non-hazardous exercise similar to morning PT, but with magic. So long as 'Biosafe' (AKA, magic attacks like the ones used that did nothing more than knock you out) attacks were used, the activity wasn't Hazardous.

Adding Crash to the mix and having a mock combat exercise with him like she always does was also safe.

Even Lynn getting in on the action was safe, as there was STILL only seven people participating.

Everything falls apart around the time Vita and Signum get in on the action along side Alex, Abigail, and Gray. Nanoha doesn't know about Alex, Abigail, and Gray... So to her, it's still a max of nine people at the most.

Likewise, Vita doesn't catch the clue on Alex, and Gray wasn't going to participate.

From the Thanatos perspective, they assume that Nanoha is operating per safety protocalls of a HAZARDOUS exercise... So they don't communicate the number of poeple joining.


So by the time the scenario deteriorates to the point where Nanoha should have stopped and enforced AA-22 23, 24, and 25... It's already snowballed and communications have broken down and turned into a large scale clusterfuck.

A combination of unseen/unknown elements, miscommunication, and a very rapid deterioration. (As in, one minute everything is more or less fine, and the next, things are way beyond out of hand in ways nobody in the policy making office could have even imagined.)


Thoughts?

[Keroko]

In my opinion, the fault lies with the Thanatos guys. Regardless of whether or not you 'assume' someone is working in the boundaries of protocol, I would think changes to a scenario are to be communicated with the leader of that scenario (in this case, Nanoha), preferably before they actually engage.

I had a little scenario running in the back of my head about what Eden would do had she been present as an overseer during Thanatos's surprise. Eden is well used to ambushes, and not known for using light force when facing hostiles. Seeing how Thanatos barged in without informing anyone they were going to join, Eden would have seen them as dangerous intruders and that would have resulted in severe injury (by virtue of Eden not holding back whereas the Thanatos do) for the unlucky Thanatos caught in Eden's counter-ambush.

Now we know that the Nanoha cast is more the talk first, shoot later time rather than the reverse, but it goes to show that even in my mind, the first thing that shot though was "What kind of idiots barge in on someone else's military exercise without informing the person in charge?"

[DKN117]

Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty

You can do that, but readers will be somewhat confused as to who and what all these new people are and their significance. As you've said, the Nanoha material comes into play in the fourth part, meaning once you post it in here, readers will have to catch up on three entire sections before they can begin to read yours. It will be like making you watch The Return of the Jedi without having you watch any of the original trilogy first, resulting in a delay as readers catch up.

My reasoning is not to dissuade you from writing, but to minimize confusion and improve efficiency.

That's why I also planned to throw in little tidbits regarding the basic background of the war, as well as a few happenings regarding characters that play roles in the campaigns of Phase 4, and then I would put the actual campaign outlines.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Originally Posted by Keroko

In my opinion, the fault lies with the Thanatos guys. Regardless of whether or not you 'assume' someone is working in the boundaries of protocol, I would think changes to a scenario are to be communicated with the leader of that scenario (in this case, Nanoha), preferably before they actually engage.

I had a little scenario running in the back of my head about what Eden would do had she been present as an overseer during Thanatos's surprise. Eden is well used to ambushes, and not known for using light force when facing hostiles. Seeing how Thanatos barged in without informing anyone they were going to join, Eden would have seen them as dangerous intruders and that would have resulted in severe injury (by virtue of Eden not holding back whereas the Thanatos do) for the unlucky Thanatos caught in Eden's counter-ambush.

Now we know that the Nanoha cast is more the talk first, shoot later time rather than the reverse, but it goes to show that even in my mind, the first thing that shot though was "What kind of idiots barge in on someone else's military exercise without informing the person in charge?"

Except Lynn DID call in first. That was the first thing that crackled over Nanoha's radio. I'm not sure how much of my work you actually read... But she DID do as much as to ask before leaping in.

Now, the exact clarity of communications can be questioned but nanoha did indicate 'the more the merrier' without realizing that pretty much let EVERYONE in with her poor word choice:

Originally Posted by Chapter eight exchange

“Thanatos One to Stars One.”

Nanoha coasted to a halt near one of the taller buildings.

“Stars One, Thanatos One,” she responded. “Good Morning Captain Bardou.”

“Salutations,” Lynn responded. Salutations? “I was wondering if it would be permissible to join in your mock battle as reinforcements to the aggressor side of your scenario.”

Nanoha paused, then sounded an affirmative before continuing.

“Of course! Real combat is always dynamic, and it helps to be well equipped mentally and physically for an ever changing-“

“Very well then,” Lynn interrupted, and then clicked off the line.

(A moment after this, Lynn makes a Dynamic Entry)


EDIT: Since I'm holding a conversation over a wide area here...

I'm not toally disagreeing here myself. But I am making sure my elements are clear.

I think what I'll do is when I get to the 'dressing down' scene, I'll have Lynn accept the blame for everything. As a perfectionist personality like Lind, her base, she'll see it as a personal failure of her own discipline. Of course, since no harm comes of this in the end (The technical aspects of why that rampage didn't kill Crash outright will be revealed when he wakes up.) She'll be forgiven by everyone else... but she'll go somewhere to blow off some steam the same way any extreme fighter blows off steam when they feel they've screwed up. (They go find some place to practice alone.)

'Sets up a few emotional knots I wanted to work out of her character and gives me a good core basis for a scene idea I'm getting listening to 'Life Light' by Andy Hunter. as well as makes a much clearer method of me to set up a Crash/Lynn pairing. (Had this idea a while back.)


As a note, this adds juicy depth and more personality to the story. Adapting to this bit is nifty.

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by PhoenixG

Well I've heard this thing before from another writer (not pointing fingers here) but she changed and adapt to the community.

>.>;

<.<;

Now that you mention it, I wasn't the only person who put forth a TSAB civil-war plotbunny but I was the one who got smeared for it!

Not that I disagree that it was a bad idea, because it was a bad idea, but still. I am still slightly annoyed that I was singled out while others got crap past the radar. ^^;