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Old 2014-06-06, 21:31   Link #1801
Faerie
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Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
That's a good, detailed explanation and easy to understand. I hate when people just go "I hate moe"...because it's such a vague and subjective term; they might as well be saying "I hate cute" "I hate pretty", etc. Absolutely anything can be moe. I've even seen Japanese describing anime pairings as "moe".
So, well posted.

Yeah, I agree. It's too vague a term to use in describing pretty much anything. Heck, a lot of characters I really like are considered "moe". And the majority of what would be called "moe" is fine and has nothing in common with the extreme that I think most people are referring to when they commonly say they "hate moe".

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"Claim" nothing. The manga senshi absolutely look in their twenties...mostly because their legs are four feet long.
Just so you know, I wasn't referring to your post, I only saw it after
But I partially disagree: the characters as they first appeared do not look as old. Mainly because their faces were rounder and their features softer and their limbs were not as long or thin yet.
You're right however that they do eventually look a lot more mature, particularly during the last arc. Limbs became a lot longer, features matured. There, SMC fits, somewhat (minus the vacant expressions), as they don't look like teens in a lot of the art anymore.
I can see the SMC designs making a lot more sense if they ever animated the later arcs.
In the first arc though... I'm having a difficult time seeing this Usagi acting like manga Usagi or attending 7th grade for that matter..
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Old 2014-06-06, 21:41   Link #1802
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Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post

They looked like Ranma's style to me.
Ranma has puffier hair. Larger cheeks and bigger faces in general.

In fairness to you, Ranma might be the pre-Sailor Moon anime that comes the closet to looking like Sailor Moon, but even here Sailor Moon is different enough to not look like it's just copying Ranma, imo.
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Old 2014-06-06, 21:43   Link #1803
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
So you don't find the 90s anime designs to be elegant?
Honestly, I really don't. They don't really have that 'flowy' style. Maybe elegant is a subjective term...but I tend to associate it with "long and flowy and delicate-looking".

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They looked pretty elegant to me. Their legs certainly looked a lot nicer and more elegant to me than the legs in this new Sailor Moon anime do.
o_O You think? I always thought their legs looked somewhat stumpy in the early seasons. Sometimes the thighs are too thick as well. AND THE FEET. In bad art episodes, their feet looked like triangles.


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But the 90s Sailor Moon anime was a massive international success. So why do the makers of this new show seem to be so ashamed of it?
I don't think they're ashamed of it. They just didn't want to make it too similar to the old one. That's all I think it is.

Quote:
They looked like Ranma's style to me.
Lol, funny story; SM was my gateway but when I went to rent more anime, Ranma was my first choice because the characters on the VHS box "looked cutesy and fun like Sailor Moon".


Sailor Moon's 90's design looks like........generic shoujo/magical girl prior to then.
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Old 2014-06-06, 21:48   Link #1804
Faerie
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Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
They looked like Ranma's style to me when the animation kicked in, in static art that's another thing.


I don't see it.
Maybe if you compare those episodes that had that weird quality-drop. But not in static art, nor in intended design, nor in animation, really. Particularly given that Rumiko has a very distinctive style that still shows in the anime (not as much as in Urusei Yatsura/Inu Yasha, but you can always tell if a show is hers)...
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Old 2014-06-06, 21:51   Link #1805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
Honestly, I really don't. They don't really have that 'flowy' style.
What do you mean by "flowy" style? Citing images from a non-Sailor Moon anime might be helpful here.


Quote:
o_O You think? I always thought their legs looked somewhat stumpy in the early seasons. Sometimes the thighs are too thick as well.
Their legs and thighs look perfectly normal and healthy to me. Pretty elegant.

Ridiculously thin/long legs, like we have in this show, is not elegant, in my view. Quite the contrary - It's unsightly to me.


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I don't think they're ashamed of it.
I disagree with you. Almost everything about this project is going in the complete opposite direction from the original 90s anime.


Quote:
Lol, funny story; SM was my gateway but when I went to rent more anime, Ranma was my first choice because the characters on the VHS box "looked cutesy and fun like Sailor Moon".
So did you like the 90s anime Sailor Moon designs then?
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Old 2014-06-06, 22:00   Link #1806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
What do you mean by "flowy' style? Citing images from a non-Sailor Moon anime might be helpful here.
Hrnnnn it's hard to explain....OH....like...the wind is always blowing? One good example is how 90s Usagi's hair is in those two straight tails. But in the manga, her hair is more wavy and flowing everywhere. Crystal understands this-that's what they're doing with her hair in the trailer.


Quote:
Ridiculously thin/long legs, like we have in this show, is not elegant, in my view. Quite the contrary - It's unsightly to me.
We strongly differ in opinion here. Can't be helped. I like the thin long legs...makes them look like graceful, dancing fairies of sorts. XD
(though they are TOO LONG FOR 14 lol)


Quote:
I disagree with you. Almost everything about this project is going in the complete opposite direction from the original 90s anime.
Why is that bad? Why would that indicate they're ashamed of it? Would it shed some light that Naoko likely has something to do with this?
She hated the 90s anime. XD


Quote:
So did you like the 90s anime Sailor Moon designs then?
Very much! I still have like six different decks of playing cards. I collected them because they were like mini art books. The are parts of the manga style I like more and parts of the anime style I like more. I can't really choose one over the other. I appreciate both. I think if you combined the faces of the 90s with the hair of Crystal, you'd get something glorious.
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Old 2014-06-06, 22:17   Link #1807
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Thanks for your detailed reply, Chiibi (and the info on Naoko - that's informative). I guess we'll probably have to agree to disagree on some things. We agree on the faces at least.
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Old 2014-06-06, 22:35   Link #1808
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No prob.

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Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
I think if you combined the faces of the 90s with the hair of Crystal, you'd get something glorious.
Heeeeeey

Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

.............and now I'm kinda sad we're not getting THIS instead. lol WHY.
WHY DOES THAT FACE LOOK SO MUCH CUTER? ............why did I go and do this.........OTL
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Old 2014-06-06, 23:07   Link #1809
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qqIt's nice to see something different. We have been watching the old series for over 20 years, and now we compare a single one minute trailer to 20 years of history. Let's see the first episode and judge it based on it. Yes, it's a trailer but
1) Toei are not really good at showing their shows pros in trailers, it's actually a good trailer compared to toei trailer for tv series - movies are other thing;
2) I am not sure if they have the first episode completely done. They released a poster, character settings and trailer that are very different from one another, as if they still work on the bases, they probably got some done, or half-done scenes and made the trailer hastily to calm the audience -no one releases a trailer in 4:00 AM, unless there was an event 6 hours earlier where everyone asked for trailer - it was crazy. Toei has always worked week то week.
3) If you have problem with the art - from the day one they said a new adaptation of the Naoko Takeuchi's manga, they have never said a remake of the old series, or that it's going to look like it. So if you are fan of the old anime, and not of the manga - give it a try or just wait for some more stuff, regarding the old series.
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Last edited by minaku; 2014-06-06 at 23:43.
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Old 2014-06-07, 00:05   Link #1810
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I'm honestly curious where Toei gets their bad reputation from.

I mean, the various PreCure shows look pretty good to me in most respects. Especially when you consider they're all long-runners. The majority of the PreCure character designs look good to me.

I'm not a huge fan of PreCure, but when I have checked out the odd episode of one series or another, they tend to look pretty good to me.
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Old 2014-06-07, 01:53   Link #1811
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qq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'm honestly curious where Toei gets their bad reputation from.

I mean, the various PreCure shows look pretty good to me in most respects. Especially when you consider they're all long-runners. The majority of the PreCure character designs look good to me.

I'm not a huge fan of PreCure, but when I have checked out the odd episode of one series or another, they tend to look pretty good to me.
It's not ugly, at least some seasons. It's just too flashy and too childish - let's help children do their homework etc. A huge letdown compared to the Sailor Moon series and the revolution it brought to the genre. How can I love it, as it is created to sell toys of presumably cute (hate them) fairies that can't stop squeak for a second... You have never seen Luna screaming like mad thinks like "Rock, Paper, Scisors" or inarticulate sounds like "Kypirappa"... Even if Luna does something like that, it would be nothing compared to at least 5 per season fairies that can't stop squeal. And image an "All Stars" movie, this fairies are like 60 till now and they are all dear screaming. There are some decent episode ( like 10) throughout its 10 years run and they are all directed by Munehisa Sekai ( the director of the new Sailor Moon)
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Last edited by minaku; 2014-06-07 at 02:03.
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Old 2014-06-07, 02:12   Link #1812
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'm honestly curious where Toei gets their bad reputation from.

I mean, the various PreCure shows look pretty good to me in most respects. Especially when you consider they're all long-runners. The majority of the PreCure character designs look good to me.

I'm not a huge fan of PreCure, but when I have checked out the odd episode of one series or another, they tend to look pretty good to me.
PreCure seems to be about the only TV-series of theirs to get generally good animation too though. Or at least from what I've seen of it the standard there seems to be far higher than, say, One Piece. Like, did someone here mention how Toei don't seem to be putting much effort into this new Sailor Moon series because they're confident it'll do well regardless? That right there is pretty much their mindset for One Piece in a nutshell. It's like, even the really huge events that one would expect to get excellent animation for aren't guaranteed to look anything above Toei's extremely low average for that show. I mean, they assigned one of the weakest animation-directors they had to work on the scene where Luffy defeats the main villain of the previous arc... Then again they seem to be operating under the assumption that since Deguchi (the animation director in question) is a senior member of the company, he somehow deserves getting the more important episodes... (he also directed the finale of Digimon Tamers, for example) despite his episodes looking consistently terrible.

Then again I really shouldn't complain too much about how they treat One Piece. I mean, for the last three months or so they've actually been doing pretty consistently well with it, even if the animation-quality has been all over the place.
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Old 2014-06-07, 02:19   Link #1813
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Originally Posted by minaku View Post
qq
It's not ugly, at least some seasons. It's just too flashy and too childish - let's help children do their homework etc. A huge letdown compared to the Sailor Moon series and the revolution it brought to the genre. How can I love it, as it is created to sell toys of presumably cute (hate them) fairies that can't stop squeak for a second... You have never seen Luna screaming like mad thinks like "Rock, Paper, Scisors" or inarticulate sounds like "Kypirappa"... Even if Luna does something like that, it would be nothing compared to at least 5 per season fairies that can't stop squeal. And image an "All Stars" movie, this fairies are like 60 till now and they are all dear screaming. There are some decent episode ( like 10) throughout its 10 years run and they are all directed by Munehisa Sekai ( the director of the new Sailor Moon)
I agree!! I've seen a few snippets of Precure and yes they are a bit too flashy and gaudy and was worried Crystal would be like that. But thankfully they've kept it toned down but still retains that colorful charm that it's got. Actually, even the "I punish you" scene the background is dark and her face is half in shadow which makes it kind of mysterious yet a bit elegant and even sexy.

Maybe it's only going to be used once but still, I really like this new direction they're going with honestly. It has a very attractive and elegant feel to it what with the long legs, flowy hair, the moon backgrounds, it's very... Takeuchi Naoko. It's really her (IMO).
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Old 2014-06-07, 02:28   Link #1814
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Originally Posted by Sakuya View Post
I agree!! I've seen a few snippets of Precure and yes they are a bit too flashy and gaudy and was worried Crystal would be like that. But thankfully they've kept it toned down but still retains that colorful charm that it's got. Actually, even the "I punish you" scene the background is dark and her face is half in shadow which makes it kind of mysterious yet a bit elegant and even sexy.

Maybe it's only going to be used once but still, I really like this new direction they're going with honestly. It has a very attractive and elegant feel to it what with the long legs, flowy hair, the moon backgrounds, it's very... Takeuchi Naoko. It's really her (IMO).
I'll aways like the old sailor moon better, and I admit that the new one needs some more frames here and there, but there is such a charm in everything - the elegance, the backgrounds, the shadows (especially the scene where Luna look at the moon, and the profile scene of Usagi after that . If you saw the picture I posted yesteday (hope someone will scan it soon), everything on the table is so beautiful, so detailed - the lemon in the glass, the tea jug, the way Rei gives Usagi to taste from her cake... I admit it has flaws, but there is something that makes me watch the trailer and this image again and again.

Edit: Low more than 3 mln. views on youtube already. Let's hope Toei see how many people care and put some more effort animation-wise.
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Last edited by minaku; 2014-06-07 at 04:35.
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Old 2014-06-07, 02:50   Link #1815
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The old designs were generic even by 90's standards. They took the general characteristics of each senshi (colors and hairstyle) and applied them to a template that was common of that age. If you look at female characters from other anime of that era (including earlier ones) you will see that their basic design is very similar i.e facial style and body shape.

I think Crystal looks beautiful, distinctive and better represents Naoko's particular style. If they can keep close the the quality of the pv then it's going to be awesome.
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Old 2014-06-07, 08:11   Link #1816
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Originally Posted by Casshern View Post
The old designs were generic even by 90's standards. They took the general characteristics of each senshi (colors and hairstyle) and applied them to a template that was common of that age. If you look at female characters from other anime of that era (including earlier ones) you will see that their basic design is very similar i.e facial style and body shape.
I disagree. The old designs weren't wildly different from what was the 90s standards, but it's easy for me to tell their designs apart from those of other anime shows of the time. I think it does a real disservice to those 90s designs to call them generic.


Quote:
I think Crystal looks beautiful, distinctive and better represents Naoko's particular style.
I might agree with you if it looked like this...



Now that looks way better than what we're actually getting, imo. Those legs look very beautiful and elegant to me, better than overly long/thin and at times broken-looking legs.
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Old 2014-06-07, 08:19   Link #1817
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Somebody fixed everything I find wrong with the chara design.



It only takes a few small changes to make Usagi look human instead of an alien.
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Old 2014-06-07, 08:31   Link #1818
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^ That tweaked Sailor Moon is perfect. Simply perfect. The perfectly balanced design that is clearly shoujo, but also clearly aiming to appeal to a wider audience. Easily recognizable for fans of the 90s anime (some of whom may not have read the manga), but also clearly new/modernized. Yes, she looks human there, with excellent anatomy.
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Old 2014-06-07, 09:06   Link #1819
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Not bad, but like this it really can be mistaken for the art of a new PreCure season... Why do you want it so much to be mainstream - it should never be just another anime. It looks different and interesting they way it is now, it has some individuality. The legs doesn't even look so long in animation scenes.
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Last edited by minaku; 2014-06-07 at 11:29.
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Old 2014-06-07, 09:55   Link #1820
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Anime is full of exaggerated proportions and it's very rare that this will ever be an issue amongst anime viewers. They already have eyes the size of tennis balls, their waist is absolutely tiny, their heads are huge and they sit on puny necks, and their curves are anatomically impossible. Yet this is the style that we as anime viewers appreciate and usually it's non-anime viewers that call them alien looking.

Even the modified images posted above have greatly exaggerated proportions. Rei's calves are the same size as her thighs and her ankles are thicker than her neck. So where do you draw the line between what you accept and what you don't?

You only need to take a look at anime like Mizuiro Jidai or Hime-chan no Ribbon to see the same style of drawing that is persistent throughout that era of anime even before Sailor Moon was released.

I believe that a lot of the criticism that Crystal is receiving is due to prejudice for it being an adaptation of the manga rather than a remake of the anime. I loved the original anime, I've lost count of how many times I've watched the whole thing, and I'd still gladly watch it again today over almost any current series. Its early 90's artstyle is adorable and nostalgic, the music is moving and its humor still makes me laugh.

I don't need to look at it through rose-tinted glasses to appreciate it though. The designs were pretty common for their time and I still remember how the animation was usually choppy and dreadful. It was a cheap production. Maybe Crystal will be another cheap production, but so far I'm impressed, and even if it's cheap I will still most likely enjoy it.
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