AnimeSuki Forums

astayanax · 2006-11-13, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neji_Hyuuga

Yeah-yeah Sasuke could copy techniques cause of his bloodline heritage. Face it Naruto is equal since he could learn them in short time. Furthermore even Jiraiya stated that there are jutsu's Sharingan can't copy ( devy nature and in accordance with nature ). Rasengan is one of them.

Wrong. Sharingan can copy Ransengen easy just like how it can copy Chidori. The only jutsus it can't copy are bloodline limits and jutsus that requires other things like seals (eg. summons).

Quote:

Don't forget that Sasuke also tends to run to his curse seal ( that means even Sasuke looks for aid hehehehe ). Tell me the difference between running to Kyuubi and running to the curse seal since running to one of them are actually a like...USING AID!!!!!!!

Spoiler:

Quote:

Itachi has much more potentials than Sasuke. He graduated at 6 and became leader of Anbu at 13. He has never revealed his full potentials and even Oro fears him. Kabuto states that...." you could increase 1% possibility in defeating Itachi by using Naruto cs." See how desperate they are??? Sasuke hasn't mastered Mangekyou...if he really is a real genius filled with talent...he would've mastered it without killing anyone as Kakashi did

What does this have to do with who is better between Sasuke and Naruto? Pre timeskip Naruto wasn't at the end and

Spoiler:

Quote:

Naruto was not looking to kill Sasuke, but he wanted to bring Sasuke back.

Slightly incorrect. Naruto was originally looking to bring Sasuke back; but when he saw that he couldn't, he decided to go for the kill to prevent Orochimaru was getting him.

Suna no tate · 2006-11-13, 19:41

I disagree. I don't think sharingan can copy techniques that utilize chakra but no hand seals like rasengan. For example, it can't copy Gaara's sand manipulation jutsus even if there was a mountain of sand around or Temari's wind fan jutsu or any other jutsu that uses chakra but no handseals. I say this for several reasons

1)sharingan copies motions not chakra flow. if the technique doesn't utilize seals to shape and form the chakra, the sharingan user is blind to how the technique is initiated. Sasuke cheated in the chuunin exam by copying the hand motions of dosu. Kakashi copied Kisame's jutsu by copying his handseals. Sasuke copied lee's taijutsu by copying the motion of lee's body. However sasuke can't learn how to break seals just by watching lee build up the chakra, or learn how to make chakra blades just by watching, or copy orochimaru's snakes out of the mouth techniques (I assume these require no handseals) just by seeing it done. These techniqes directly manipulate chakra flow, and the sharingan user just can't see that.
2)kakashi was taught by the 4th. Kakashi quite simply probably just learned Rasengan from the 4th. Why not use Rasengan more often? Chidori is his propietary jutsu. Plus he rarely uses it anyway.
3)Rasengan is obviously a superior technique to chidori (at least at the genin level). Rasengan seems to do more damage, and doesn't seem to have a limit as to how many times a day it can be used. Sasuke himself noted this and yet he never tried to copy it. He obviously feels no shame in copying techniques as he copied lee's attack. Why not copy a move he knows is superior? Well quite frankly he can't.

Lollerpants · 2006-11-13, 20:01

For the last freaking time, rasengan and chidori cannot even be compared as "technique superiority"; they're DIFFERENT, it's like apples and oranges. As for if you based on MAGNITUDE alone, they were shown to NEGATE each other like 3 times, the only reason there is no freaking LIMIT to how many times rasengan seems to be able used is because of 1. fillers 2. Naruto having kyuubi to still support him in chakra, if Sasuke DID know rasengan, he'd probably STILL be limited to the 4 times a day.

Spoiler:

wingdarkness · 2006-11-13, 20:13

Well I definatley would have said Naruto pre-filler, but the absense of anything but a brief helping of Sasuke has proven to me the creator perhaps cares more for his selfish a$$...They could have pulled something out of their a$$ like some Sasuke training (Oro sending him on a random mission) or scenes with Kabuto or SOMETHING that wouldn't have destroyed anything manga, but they butcher Naruto, Rock Lee, Shino, and various other characters yet somehow Sasuke is above all this...I mean we are what around 70 episodes since we last saw Sasuke (The second most important character in the story) do anything of value? I think it's ashame that he's the only character to escape the filler while every other character has had to endure it...On the surface that tells me the creator finds Sasuke to be better (By far more untouchable than his title character), and honestly to me I think it's sucks to some degree..

Suna no tate · 2006-11-13, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lollerpants

For the last freaking time, rasengan and chidori cannot even be compared as "technique superiority"; they're DIFFERENT, it's like apples and oranges. As for if you based on MAGNITUDE alone, they were shown to NEGATE each other like 3 times, the only reason there is no freaking LIMIT to how many times rasengan seems to be able used is because of 1. fillers 2. Naruto having kyuubi to still support him in chakra, if Sasuke DID know rasengan, he'd probably STILL be limited to the 4 times a day.

Spoiler:

Regardless of naruto's chakra amount, if there were a limit to the technique Jiraiya would have stated it. A limit would be a danger that the user should be aware about. Just like gai told lee about the limits of opening gates, and kakashi told sasuke about the limits of the chidori, if the rasengan had a limit or a special restriction as to how many times it may be used, jiraiya would have said something. We assume all techniques that don't specifically state a special limit to have no unreasonable limit or restriction. How many times can I use a fireball jutsu? I can use a fireball jutsu until I get tired basically. How many times can I use rasengan? I can use rasengan till I get tired. Those are normal restrictions. How many times can I use chidori? I can only use chidori 3 times in a day or I will die. How many times can I use Amaterasu and tsukuyomi? I can only use Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi 1 time each in a day. Anymore and I'll lose my eyes. How many gates can I open in a single jump? I can only open the 6th gate and only when my life is in danger because I may permanantly hurt something. Those are special restrictions. If there is a special limit, typically it will be said. If its not said, its assumed that the jutsu follows normal rules. and yeah you're right. fillers... but still...no limit...

As for apples and oranges, I see it like this. they are both attacks held in the hands that require you to charge at your opponent. Who cares if one is A rank form manipulation and the other is A rank narture manipulation? A technique is a technique. I place superority on damage and on restrictions and so far it seems the rasengan will do more damage (compare the holes blown in the water tanks) and has fewer restricitions (to date none).

Neji_Hyuuga · 2006-11-16, 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by astayanax

Wrong. Sharingan can copy Ransengen easy just like how it can copy Chidori. The only jutsus it can't copy are bloodline limits and jutsus that requires other things like seals (eg. summons).

Spoiler:

What does this have to do with who is better between Sasuke and Naruto? Pre timeskip Naruto wasn't at the end and

Spoiler:

From which point of view? On their second encounter he hesitated to fight him remember??? We don't know what'll happen if he went all out at that time

Slightly incorrect. Naruto was originally looking to bring Sasuke back; but when he saw that he couldn't, he decided to go for the kill to prevent Orochimaru was getting him.

Rasengan is the ultimate being of chakra gathering, KAkashi has seen it a few times but he couldn't do it until volume 36 and Sasuke has always been wondering what that jutsu was ( in volume 26 and when he fought Naruto at the hospital roof top ). This could possibly mean that the Sharingan could see its flow but can't copy it!

The fact that most people state that NAruto's good only cause his got Kyuubi and all those blablabla made me come out with this point. " SASUKE HAS HIS BLOODLINE AND CURSE SEAL!!! NARUTO HAS HIS KYUUBI!!!" fair enough right????"
He never went for the kill!!! What he stated in volume 26 was, " I'll bring you back even though i have to break your bones!"

Naruto isn't Sasuke! Sasuke would have gone for the kill but definitly not NAruto. The one thing most precious to him right now is Sasuke. Sasuke's
existence is invaluable to him!

Lumir · 2006-11-16, 03:54

Naruto takes the top spot in the overall category. He has kyuubi which is known world wide to be the "ultimate" chakra... The title of "ultimate" was not given lightly...

Might i state that sharingan indeed can copy most moves (cept bloodline, seal ones), but might i also say that just because one can copy a skill dose not mean one can effectivly use or activate it. This is were the characters conditions come in... different skills can require different variables such as blood type, structure, DNA, mental levels, ect...

On the note about the sasuke/naruto fight, naruto had no killer intent towards sasuke, he had serious determination to beat him until he could not resist going back to konoha. While on the other hand sasuke had the killer intent, due to the fact that itachi almost brain washed him.

Now to clear things up, naruto is a human being... It is hard for him to fully utilize the kyuubi (while kyuubi being a mystical beast has no limits with his body structure), but as we all see naruto is gaining the ability to control more and more of the power with time, and training. Given enough time he would surpass anyone and anything, this is why we see oro trying to get rid of him in the sannin battle royal episode.

In the sasuke/oro case even if they do master every jitsu/taijitsu/ect in the world there is no beating the infinite amount of chakra the kyuubi has... in fact the only way to beat such a thing is through a seal... If we were to take this into consideration we could say whoever can use the same seal skill as the 4th hokage did and not have to surrender his/her life is the strongest char in the naruto-verse simply because they could seal anyone at any time without loosing there own life... But remeber kyuubi was careless when he got sealed, i do believe he could have avoided it if he would have taken things more serious.

Now on to body construct. We can almost say without a doubt that sasuke has a "perfect" body build. Including blood, strength, output, input, eyes, and all other factors. I think body composition is one of the main key factors in being insanly strong, and sasuke is that 1 in a millenium one, which in turn allows him to learn and do things better/faster then others. While on the other hand naruto is a ordinary human with an infinite power locked inside of him, which can only be utilized in certin conditions... I belive due to naruto's generic body compositon, this limits the amount of kyuubi "power" he can utilize. Just like we saw in the sasuke/naruto battle, naruto could only display that amount of power for so long, until one of his arms let out... I would go so far as to say this is due to his body's current state. Thinking of this remends me of Kimimouru, his body structure was insane as well... he could change his own bones, and i would go as far as to say even the rest of his body... as his skin and reaction times were insane.

Finally for some speculation... i would say that if kyuubi could reconstruct naruto's body either through naruto's training or through immense chakra physical reconstruction, then naruto could fully utilize the power and be untouchable. Hell i would go as far as to say if kyuubi wanted he could make naruto's eyes have the same or more abilities then the sharingan. Like i said time is the key factor, as well as if its even possible to reconstruct the body through chakra, or techniques.

As for sasuke all thats left to him is new jitsu's and body training. Even if he dose this for all eternity he will always have a limit... when and how he reaches it is unknown... while naruto on the other hand has no limit kyuubi whys...

hmongstang · 2006-11-16, 12:18

sasuke - Oro give me power
Oro- well bend over then
sasuke - okay but make it quick

Naruto's_girl · 2006-11-17, 22:52

Well I think Naruto. He has a much nicer and open personality. Sasuke has the whole " I hate everyone and the world", attitude. Naruto Is also persistent where as sasuke has given up on quite a few battles.

Neji_Hyuuga · 2006-11-26, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naruto's_girl

Well I think Naruto. He has a much nicer and open personality. Sasuke has the whole " I hate everyone and the world", attitude. Naruto Is also persistent where as sasuke has given up on quite a few battles.

I totally agree

Spectacular_Insanity · 2006-11-27, 10:29

I'd have to say Naruto, if nothing more than the nine-tailed fox to help him if all goes to hell. Not to mention he is just too stubborn to quit, which is one of his advantageous traits.

Dauthi · 2006-11-27, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

Regardless of naruto's chakra amount, if there were a limit to the technique Jiraiya would have stated it. A limit would be a danger that the user should be aware about. Just like gai told lee about the limits of opening gates, and kakashi told sasuke about the limits of the chidori, if the rasengan had a limit or a special restriction as to how many times it may be used, jiraiya would have said something. We assume all techniques that don't specifically state a special limit to have no unreasonable limit or restriction. How many times can I use a fireball jutsu? I can use a fireball jutsu until I get tired basically. How many times can I use rasengan? I can use rasengan till I get tired. Those are normal restrictions. How many times can I use chidori? I can only use chidori 3 times in a day or I will die. How many times can I use Amaterasu and tsukuyomi? I can only use Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi 1 time each in a day. Anymore and I'll lose my eyes. How many gates can I open in a single jump? I can only open the 6th gate and only when my life is in danger because I may permanantly hurt something. Those are special restrictions. If there is a special limit, typically it will be said. If its not said, its assumed that the jutsu follows normal rules. and yeah you're right. fillers... but still...no limit...

As for apples and oranges, I see it like this. they are both attacks held in the hands that require you to charge at your opponent. Who cares if one is A rank form manipulation and the other is A rank narture manipulation? A technique is a technique. I place superority on damage and on restrictions and so far it seems the rasengan will do more damage (compare the holes blown in the water tanks) and has fewer restricitions (to date none).

I might have to disagree with this. Jiraiya was already stated to be the "same" as Naruto, as in chakra capacity, while Sasuke is like Kakashi, a smaller capacity. So of course Kakashi would warn Sasuke, while Jiraiya wouldn't bother with Naruto (especially with knowledge of the Kyuubi in him). Sasuke has skill and finesse, while Naruto has brute force and endurance. Of course we will never know for sure, but i doubt if say Naruto could do chidori, he would be limited to 3 times or so, his chakra capacity is just way too large.

I would also hardly call them apples and oranges. They both are offensive close range "finisher" attacks. The are almost completely similiar. If they want to compare how they are created, yes that is apples and oranges, but certainly not how it is used or its power.

In any case, i agree about Sharingan. Sharingan seems to slow things down, making memorizing them easy. This is how they can copy any kind of movement, or evade it. An 3 dot can also give an innate predictability as well.

Rich · 2006-11-29, 16:09

either way we have confirmed that new the wind rasengan can because chidori or chidori nagashi for sure since Yamato told us the measure (greater/less) of the five major elemental manipulations which goes like:

Water > Fire > Wind (new Rasengan) > Lightning (Chidori) > Earth > Water

Mr. Johnny 5 · 2006-11-29, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

either way we have confirmed that new the wind rasengan can because chidori or chidori nagashi for sure since Yamato told us the measure (greater/less) of the five major elemental manipulations which goes like:

Water > Fire > Wind (new Rasengan) > Lightning (Chidori) > Earth > Water

Spoiler:

Sabaku Kyu · 2006-11-29, 16:33

Spoiler:

Rich · 2006-11-29, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

[spoiler]True....but it's highly likely that Sasuke is a Fire type...and probably now has mastered lightning aswell...

it's true that Sasuke is most likely the fire type since the Uchiha clan is famous for their katon jutsus, but he can't rely on his katon jutsus to kill naruto can he since chidori is most likely cancelled out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Spoiler:

is that even possible to mix two elements into one jutsu. i don't believe so.

Dauthi · 2006-11-29, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

it's true that Sasuke is most likely the fire type since the Uchiha clan is famous for their katon jutsus, but he can't rely on his katon jutsus to kill naruto can he since chidori is most likely cancelled out.

is that even possible to mix two elements into one jutsu. i don't believe so.

Spoiler:

Shay · 2006-11-29, 17:36

Naruto because of kyubi. It is that simple.

gameoffreak8 · 2006-11-29, 18:18

I am just guessing Naruto would win because Naruto have a crazy stamina.

Vizard.King · 2006-11-29, 18:42

i've changed this a little

As for what we've seen so far
Naruto -Sasuke

More chakra-Full Sharingan

Kyuubi 4-Curse seal 2

Rasengan-Chidori

Tougher-Faster & Smarter

Secret Jiriaya training. . . .-Secret Orochimaru training. . . .

Gamabunta-noth'in

Fights for friends(holds back power against sasuke)-lust for power(idiot who goes all out and is still close to losing)

odame rasengan-flapping chidori

kyubi odame rasenan- nothin(dead)

2006-11-13, 20:01	Link #103
Lollerpants Junior Member Join Date: May 2006	For the last freaking time, rasengan and chidori cannot even be compared as "technique superiority"; they're DIFFERENT, it's like apples and oranges. As for if you based on MAGNITUDE alone, they were shown to NEGATE each other like 3 times, the only reason there is no freaking LIMIT to how many times rasengan seems to be able used is because of 1. fillers 2. Naruto having kyuubi to still support him in chakra, if Sasuke DID know rasengan, he'd probably STILL be limited to the 4 times a day. Spoiler: also Post-timeskip, Kakashi himself explained that it was the difference between nature and shape manipulation of Rasengan and Chidori, NOTHING about which is superior, also based on your logic, if Kakashi knows that rasengan is superior, woudlnt HE also use it, since he CAN?

2006-11-13, 20:13	Link #104
wingdarkness Retweet Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA	Well I definatley would have said Naruto pre-filler, but the absense of anything but a brief helping of Sasuke has proven to me the creator perhaps cares more for his selfish a$$...They could have pulled something out of their a$$ like some Sasuke training (Oro sending him on a random mission) or scenes with Kabuto or SOMETHING that wouldn't have destroyed anything manga, but they butcher Naruto, Rock Lee, Shino, and various other characters yet somehow Sasuke is above all this...I mean we are what around 70 episodes since we last saw Sasuke (The second most important character in the story) do anything of value? I think it's ashame that he's the only character to escape the filler while every other character has had to endure it...On the surface that tells me the creator finds Sasuke to be better (By far more untouchable than his title character), and honestly to me I think it's sucks to some degree.. __________________ Fly since ↔...

2006-11-16, 03:54	Link #107
Lumir Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 37	Naruto takes the top spot in the overall category. He has kyuubi which is known world wide to be the "ultimate" chakra... The title of "ultimate" was not given lightly... Might i state that sharingan indeed can copy most moves (cept bloodline, seal ones), but might i also say that just because one can copy a skill dose not mean one can effectivly use or activate it. This is were the characters conditions come in... different skills can require different variables such as blood type, structure, DNA, mental levels, ect... On the note about the sasuke/naruto fight, naruto had no killer intent towards sasuke, he had serious determination to beat him until he could not resist going back to konoha. While on the other hand sasuke had the killer intent, due to the fact that itachi almost brain washed him. Now to clear things up, naruto is a human being... It is hard for him to fully utilize the kyuubi (while kyuubi being a mystical beast has no limits with his body structure), but as we all see naruto is gaining the ability to control more and more of the power with time, and training. Given enough time he would surpass anyone and anything, this is why we see oro trying to get rid of him in the sannin battle royal episode. In the sasuke/oro case even if they do master every jitsu/taijitsu/ect in the world there is no beating the infinite amount of chakra the kyuubi has... in fact the only way to beat such a thing is through a seal... If we were to take this into consideration we could say whoever can use the same seal skill as the 4th hokage did and not have to surrender his/her life is the strongest char in the naruto-verse simply because they could seal anyone at any time without loosing there own life... But remeber kyuubi was careless when he got sealed, i do believe he could have avoided it if he would have taken things more serious. Now on to body construct. We can almost say without a doubt that sasuke has a "perfect" body build. Including blood, strength, output, input, eyes, and all other factors. I think body composition is one of the main key factors in being insanly strong, and sasuke is that 1 in a millenium one, which in turn allows him to learn and do things better/faster then others. While on the other hand naruto is a ordinary human with an infinite power locked inside of him, which can only be utilized in certin conditions... I belive due to naruto's generic body compositon, this limits the amount of kyuubi "power" he can utilize. Just like we saw in the sasuke/naruto battle, naruto could only display that amount of power for so long, until one of his arms let out... I would go so far as to say this is due to his body's current state. Thinking of this remends me of Kimimouru, his body structure was insane as well... he could change his own bones, and i would go as far as to say even the rest of his body... as his skin and reaction times were insane. Finally for some speculation... i would say that if kyuubi could reconstruct naruto's body either through naruto's training or through immense chakra physical reconstruction, then naruto could fully utilize the power and be untouchable. Hell i would go as far as to say if kyuubi wanted he could make naruto's eyes have the same or more abilities then the sharingan. Like i said time is the key factor, as well as if its even possible to reconstruct the body through chakra, or techniques. As for sasuke all thats left to him is new jitsu's and body training. Even if he dose this for all eternity he will always have a limit... when and how he reaches it is unknown... while naruto on the other hand has no limit kyuubi whys... __________________

2006-11-27, 10:29	Link #111
Spectacular_Insanity Ha ha ha ha ha... Graphic Designer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Right behind you. Age: 35	I'd have to say Naruto, if nothing more than the nine-tailed fox to help him if all goes to hell. Not to mention he is just too stubborn to quit, which is one of his advantageous traits. __________________

2006-11-29, 16:33	Link #115
Sabaku Kyu The Ironman Join Date: Sep 2006	Spoiler: Since Naruto added wind to rasengan, what if Sasuke managed to add fire to the chidori? Maybe they'd cancel out again. I doubt that'd happen though since shape manipulation of two elements at a time must be next to impossible without a bunshin. Just a thought

2006-11-13, 19:41	Link #102
Suna no tate Akatsuki Bart is Tobi Join Date: Oct 2006	I disagree. I don't think sharingan can copy techniques that utilize chakra but no hand seals like rasengan. For example, it can't copy Gaara's sand manipulation jutsus even if there was a mountain of sand around or Temari's wind fan jutsu or any other jutsu that uses chakra but no handseals. I say this for several reasons 1)sharingan copies motions not chakra flow. if the technique doesn't utilize seals to shape and form the chakra, the sharingan user is blind to how the technique is initiated. Sasuke cheated in the chuunin exam by copying the hand motions of dosu. Kakashi copied Kisame's jutsu by copying his handseals. Sasuke copied lee's taijutsu by copying the motion of lee's body. However sasuke can't learn how to break seals just by watching lee build up the chakra, or learn how to make chakra blades just by watching, or copy orochimaru's snakes out of the mouth techniques (I assume these require no handseals) just by seeing it done. These techniqes directly manipulate chakra flow, and the sharingan user just can't see that. 2)kakashi was taught by the 4th. Kakashi quite simply probably just learned Rasengan from the 4th. Why not use Rasengan more often? Chidori is his propietary jutsu. Plus he rarely uses it anyway. 3)Rasengan is obviously a superior technique to chidori (at least at the genin level). Rasengan seems to do more damage, and doesn't seem to have a limit as to how many times a day it can be used. Sasuke himself noted this and yet he never tried to copy it. He obviously feels no shame in copying techniques as he copied lee's attack. Why not copy a move he knows is superior? Well quite frankly he can't.

2006-11-16, 12:18	Link #108
hmongstang Member Join Date: Oct 2004	sasuke - Oro give me power Oro- well bend over then sasuke - okay but make it quick

2006-11-17, 22:52	Link #109
Naruto's_girl Hinata and Naruto Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: No where. I'm a figment of your imagination.............	Well I think Naruto. He has a much nicer and open personality. Sasuke has the whole " I hate everyone and the world", attitude. Naruto Is also persistent where as sasuke has given up on quite a few battles.

2006-11-29, 16:09	Link #113
Rich AnimeSuki's Hentai-sama Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hong Kong	either way we have confirmed that new the wind rasengan can because chidori or chidori nagashi for sure since Yamato told us the measure (greater/less) of the five major elemental manipulations which goes like: Water > Fire > Wind (new Rasengan) > Lightning (Chidori) > Earth > Water

2006-11-29, 17:36	Link #118
Shay Monarch Programmer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Liverpool Age: 42	Naruto because of kyubi. It is that simple. __________________ Current Anime - Attack on Titan Current Manga - Naruto Current Book - Waiting for War of the Roses Current Album - Vessel by Twenty One Pilots

2006-11-29, 18:18	Link #119
gameoffreak8 Member Join Date: Dec 2005	I am just guessing Naruto would win because Naruto have a crazy stamina.

2006-11-29, 18:42	Link #120
Vizard.King Fear the Vizard Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: On Earth	i've changed this a little As for what we've seen so far Naruto -Sasuke More chakra-Full Sharingan Kyuubi 4-Curse seal 2 Rasengan-Chidori Tougher-Faster & Smarter Secret Jiriaya training. . . .-Secret Orochimaru training. . . . Gamabunta-noth'in Fights for friends(holds back power against sasuke)-lust for power(idiot who goes all out and is still close to losing) odame rasengan-flapping chidori kyubi odame rasenan- nothin(dead)