StarCraft 2

[ZeroForever]

it's honestly makes a noticible difference in large scale battles, it's not the most amazing nerf but it was strong enough that matches are no longer roach roach roach to mutas which was it's intended point.

[felix]

Before the word spreads as a ugly rumor let me clarify a certain situation for Russia (possibly other regions as well). There will be these very cheap version of Liberty released. When you purchase them the game is a sort of pay-to-play for both single and multilayer (the period is something like a year or so). Note the emphasis is here they are extremely cheap. I suppose we can think of them as a sort of alternative re-incarnation of Spawn Copies. As best as I know this applies to only Russia, and these limited copies can also only play on the Russian servers for that 1 year period with extra fees for playing outside of the region.

When you have a full copy of the game these limitations of course do not apply, as stated officially by blizzard (all be it the wording can be interpreted).

[SaintessHeart]

Judging from the looks game, I think SK is going to be invaded by NK once it releases.

Originally Posted by felix

Before the word spreads as a ugly rumor let me clarify a certain situation for Russia (possibly other regions as well). There will be these very cheap version of Liberty released. When you purchase them the game is a sort of pay-to-play for both single and multilayer (the period is something like a year or so). Note the emphasis is here they are extremely cheap. I suppose we can think of them as a sort of alternative re-incarnation of Spawn Copies. As best as I know this applies to only Russia, and these limited copies can also only play on the Russian servers for that 1 year period with extra fees for playing outside of the region.

When you have a full copy of the game these limitations of course do not apply, as stated officially by blizzard (all be it the wording can be interpreted).

Why the "extra fees for playing outside the region"?

[felix]

Because they are a very cheap version of the game. I suggest we leave it at that since the source of the information is somewhat flimsy and being disputed, but then everything is being disputed on the internet.

Collector's edition content: http://us.starcraft2.com/features/collector/

Also,

Heaven's Devils: http://us.starcraft2.com/features/st...vensdevils.xml

[gummybear]

Originally Posted by felix

Forcefields seem to fair way better for Toss then Immortals against Roaches.

jump to 6:00

it depends on what is going on in the battle field, that map has many choke points or tall grasses which also in a way turn into a choke, so forcefields make sense, but in a open map with lots of open area you can't do that cause toss will run out of energy before they can totally wall themself off, in that case you will need something to tank with.

[felix]

Originally Posted by gummybear

it depends on what is going on in the battle field, that map has many choke points or tall grasses which also in a way turn into a choke, so forcefields make sense, but in a open map with lots of open area you can't do that cause toss will run out of energy before they can totally wall themself off, in that case you will need something to tank with.

Did you watch the video? I posted it precisely because he spams the things in a open field and because using smart casting he just needs to cast then hold shift to place 100 of them. He also has this Sentry + Colossus army which I can only see as being hard countered by capital ships. You're right about grass probably making it more effective in the first engagements past minute 6:00 then it would be but still...

[Jazzrat]

A good micro of force field and psi storm can wreak havoc on zerg ground forces. Too bad psi storm got nerfed again which means less people would try to experiment with them. I been playing around with high templar, 2 or 3 psi storm on worker line can wipe out your opponent's economy in less than 4s barely enough time to move em out of the way if you get the drop on them plus with the recent nerf of hydralisk to 80 hp, means you only need 1 psi storm to kill them.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

A good micro of force field and psi storm can wreak havoc on zerg ground forces. Too bad psi storm got nerfed again which means less people would try to experiment with them.

Psi Storm in this game does faster damage compared to Broodwar from what some have calculated. But if blizzard even removes 1hp from a unit people will either flock or steer away from it.

[Keroko]

Until one player manages a brilliant strategy with the abandoned unit, then everybody flocks it again.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Until one player manages a brilliant strategy with the abandoned unit, then everybody flocks it again.

Define "abandoned unit".

[LoweGear]

I think he means a unit that people hardly use.

[felix]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

I think he means a unit that people hardly use.

Well lets see at the moment that would be (in order):

TERRAN

Not-Used

• Raven
• Battlecruiser
• Reapers (aside from 1 or 2 super early)
• Hellion (aside from super early harass)
• Auto-Turrets
• Siege Tanks (rarely used for attack)

Used

• Marauders
• Medivac
• Marine
• Ghost
• PDD
• Viking
• Banshee
• Thor (some think it wins, some think its a waste)

ZERG

Not-Used

• Corruptor
• Overseer
• Ultralisk

Used

• Queen
• Roach
• Hydralisk
• Zergling
• Mutalisk
• Broodlord

PROTOSS

Not-Used

• Archon
• Carriers
• Mothership
• Pheonix (other then desperation air counter mode)

Used

• Colossus
• Immortal
• Stalker
• Zealot
• Sentry
• High Templar
• Dark Templar
• Void Ray

Lets see whats easily countered or doesn't work too well,

• Battlecruiser: say you have this big chunk of 100 Battlecruisers, 1 viking can kill it all. Nuff said.
• Reapers: it used to be that you had this merc structure and it would pop a few at a time that you could purchase I believe. Now they are just this unreasonably gas heavy unit. 1 reapers = 2 Marauders, 2 reapers = 1 tank, 4 reapers = 1 Thor. 2 Marines or 1 Marauder own Reaper at much less the cost, hardly a worthy investment. The old spider mine charges where far more useful in the harass role then the new 30 ~ 39 Structure damage, which I can only see useful as supply harass against terran.
• Siege Tanks: are too easily sniped by a lot of units, partially due to how they have this rediculasly low hp for their cost. A roach costs 75minerals and 100gas less and has the same hp. The Siege Tank doesn't even make sense if its not in siege mode in this game. And its Siege Mode is so long its basically asking: "come and snipe me".
• Corruptors: this was somewhat discussed on a topic on TL.net. Their main ability to corrupt is only useful against Planetary Fortress, you can't use it to disable pylons, buildings like command centers will still gather energy when corrupted, it doesn't last forever and it does have a cost, you also can not rush for them as a sort of anti-tech strategy since regardless of success of failure you just blew your own tech by getting them. They are probably one of the best anti-air units in teh game, but nobody really goes mass-air army so the best use they've seen is probably against Colossus.
• Overseer: I've seen this game where zerg had the entire map and toss even lost his base along with his last mining base. But he had this reasonable stalker/DT army and just raped forward everything. The zerg made Overseers and the toss player just sniped them with stalkers. The end.
• Ultralisk: they counter whats never used, like zergling late game. They also counter mass marine/marauder but unfortunately stim just means you can snipe 600hp ultra almost instantly with a reasonable force.
• Archon: blizzard has gone out of their way to make them: "just something you can turn your dark templar into when they run out energy"
• Carriers: I've heard stories of how getting them makes for miraculous come backs. Sorry I mean makes for miraculous comebacks for your opponent.
• Pheonix: is a so called "air superiority fighter" that does bonus damage to light and sux against mutalisk. Do you see the problem? Think about how many units besides mutalisk are even Light (besides itself).

So that leaves,

• Raven & Auto-Turrets: neutralizes any fast stealth, offers a nice extra macro mechanic with the Auto-Turrets. Note: they cost 50 energy, but last 180s which is a long long time, and with the Durable Materials upgrade they last 240s. While you can obviously use them to block off or make it awkward for melee units to get near (such as Roaches etc; due to their 150hp) they are not so viable because:
  1. they're damage is constant 8 all game long, nothing can improve it
  2. they're armor is 1 or 3 with building armor upgrade, which is not that great late game
  3. they don't push units out of the way when you place them like forcefields do
  4. you can also obviously not place them on damn creep
  Some other pros and cons. While they cost a frikin lot of gas they are probably the most effective neutralizers of fast expansions with their ability to just drop Auto-Turrets. Just a few Auto-Turrets are more then able to kill a CC, Nexus in reasonable time. And none of the SCVs/Probes can do anything to the turrets given their monster 150hp.
• Hellions: according to some math by cowgomoo they are ideal against protoss gate units as a cost effective counter.
• Mothership: makes sense, but its so so far down the tech tree.

I'm sure theres some fancy cheeze like Thor rush but other then that I don't see units coming out and shining later. I know people like to compare with Broodwar, but this is not Broodwar, the gaming community is much more versed in whats good and bad, it won't take 10 years to re-invent the wheel, particularly when the game was made with so many similarities in mechanics.

[Keroko]

Like I said, until someone finds a brilliant tactic. I've seen the same happening in C&C3, people in the channels I was in were often complaining about how the mastermind sucked, until someone used the mastermind/control/drop 4 towers tactic. The tactic spread like wildfire and two days later placing a turret in your base was nearly mandatory.

I never understood why they patched the tower stacking out anyway, the tactic was easily countered as long as you took precautions, and it certainly didn't help against the flood of rushers.

[felix]

I hated when they took out the control area from reactors in the original, base crawl was so awsum.

Anyway,

Zotac
Results: http://sc2.cups.gamesports.net/en/cup/7/results/
Streams:

• http://www.glhf.tv/ (takes a while to load)
• http://www.livestream.com/striderdoom (will cast semi and finals)

[Archon_Wing]

I don't think Ravens and Overseers can be underused, since they are mobile detection.

Also, while BCs arent good against other Terran, they are effective against Zerg and protoss; you can argue that games never take that long but they are fine.

[felix]

I didn't say they were bad. My point was they are underused, since Keroko brought up the magic strategy aspect.

[Archon_Wing]

*Shrugs* As long as a unit has a niche it can fit in, it'll be fine. Raven/Overseers are just support units.

Of course Tanks and Ultralisks are fairly worthless because their niche overlaps with a much cheaper and efficient unit. (Marauder and Roaches) At least tanks have range though.

Siege tanks could be used for breaking down enemy fortifications, but sadly the cheaper Marauder does so much damage to them that it's not needed. To make matters worse, Thors are also good at building busting. It could be used to hold early fortifications with their range. But their cost in terms of resources and supply makes it very hard to do. You could use tanks to shoot across terrain obstacles, but terrain advantage in sc2 just isn't as great as it was in sc1. (A single spotter negates your high ground advantage, as well as the increased mobility of stuff.)

Ultralisks are weak because their role as damage sponges can be replaced with the roach. Why would you tech all the way up there when you can get cheap tanks that are so easily massed at tier 1?

[Lostdreams]

Anybody have a spare key=( so that I can play this game.


Sounds so fun!=)

[felix]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Siege tanks could be used for breaking down enemy fortifications

Nukes are cheaper and ghosts are more versatile then tanks. If I'm not mistaken EMP can neutralize stealth temporarily as well (so much for Raven). Not to mention nukes are cooler too. But anyway tanks and Ravens are way too gas heavy for a Terran unit; I'm sure they are going to adjust the cost or make them more powerful soonish. As far as I'm concern Blizzards current attempts at improving Terran mech are laughable.

[Archon_Wing]

Well that just makes tanks even more useless, lol. But the point about mobile detection is that you don't have to micro much except have the raven right click on a unit. Emp would require better aim.

Also, I guess it wouldn't help against burrow. Try moving out vs a zerg that has burrowed banelings.