Can't agree more. I am a Ranka's fan but I really like Sheryl also (but of course, I like Ranka more).
I guess part of the reason I am a Ranka's fan is because I am a Minmay fan in DYRL (i didn't watch the original) And I can never forget the part that hikaru dumps Minmay, she is already so sad, but hikaru just has to chase her in order to give her a slap. I just think that it's too cruel for Minmay, so I want Ranka/Minmay this time has a good ending. (i know Ranka is not Minmay, but from ep 1 and 2 in frontier, the analogy is just so strong)
Ranka is Minmay from the TV Series, a young girl with the dream to become a star.
Sheryl is Minmay from DYRL, a popstar with fame who fall in love with a pilot.
DFTT's
Well, saying you're middle ground while stating one is ahead is clearly NOT middle ground.
I tell it like I see it. Unlike shippers that go to the extreme. true shippers always have their pairing winning no matter what.
Quote:
I wouldn't have labeled you inconsistent or a shipper if you hadn't jumped camp at least 3 times (Ranka -> Sheryl -> Neutral) while openly proclaiming each... each time and why.
Again, a true shipper doesn't change his opinion as events go. A true shipper even when they see their girl losing stay with their girl. a true shipper doesn't use logic and a true shipper can see things that are not there. A true shipper hopes for his girl till the very end and even further even when that girl lost. (I still have hopes that Mao and Kai from blood+ can end together)
I tell it like I see it. Unlike shippers that go to the extreme. true shippers always have their pairing winning no matter what.
Again, a true shipper doesn't change his opinion as events go. A true shipper even when they see their girl losing stay with their girl. a true shipper doesn't use logic and a true shipper can see things that are not there. A true shipper hopes for his girl till the very end and even further even when that girl lost. (I still have hopes that Mao and Kai from blood+ can end together)
I've already addressed this previously.
Spoiler for for space:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightHack
I've a good enough understanding of shipping to know a shipper (however subtle they may try to be) when I see one. You may not be a "true shipper" per say here in Macross, but you're definitely one that jumps on the bandwagon.
Which is why trying to discredit someone because they're a shipper, specifically Tak and Magnus, is like the "pot calling the kettle black".
How long will it be before you try to discredit me because I have opposing opinions and ship Sheryl?
Also, your definition of a "true shipper" = "rabid shipper" which I don't think is correct.
Now please read Danish's excellent post on the matter.
Spoiler for for space:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danish78
It's ok to ship and it's also ok to be neutral but you can't do both at the same time (unless you do two different pairings I mean). Just be civil and try to argue your position on clear facts(and hopefully concise and understandable presentation). Any speculation will most always be attacked. For neutrals its just better to stay out of the way and watch the fireworks between the two sides, interject your opinion once in a while but never try to goad or disrespect a ship for taking a side. This is a public forum and open for all to post their opinions but that shouldn't stop us from respecting each others choices.
You said you're neutral because things "reset". Now if that were the only case I would understand and be on my way. But at the same time you're saying this, you come out and try to discredit Sheryl ships and their reasons... then go even farther and say Sheryl is ahead.
That is discrediting and contradicting, which frankly makes you a hypocrite.
You keep swaying back and forth which is particularly annoying.
---
Now to get back on topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaku_II
Ranka is Minmay from the TV Series, a young girl with the dream to become a star.
Sheryl is Minmay from DYRL, a popstar with fame who fall in love with a pilot.
Between the two versions of Minmei, who did you like better?
__________________
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I, for one, didn't think the Minmei from the TV series was all that despicable. I mean, sure she fell for Kaifun's little wiles, but... Honestly, she's just kind of a bratty kid in both versions. Whilst it may be cute in small doses, I guess too much is too much, eh?
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Well I watched the episode this morning and now have a chance to give my take.
I'll start with the bad. I gave this episode a 7/10. A large part of that was because of the immense ignorance that seems to occur in the story with the now re-formed love triangle of Alto, Sheryl, and Ranka. I was amazed that Ranka was still going after Alto after apparently, "maturing," to the point where she was over her childish crush on him. Just as well, I'm amazed that Sheryl would allow such a thing at all, considering Sheryl and Alto have been a thousand times better together than Ranka and him could ever be. Ranka herself admits some of the completion that Sheryl brings Alto.
A bit of this episode also felt like tacked-on cheapness, Gundam Seed style. Alto, Ranka, and Sheryl seem to be able to talk to eachother through the sheer will of Ranka and her fold wave magic. Though that might be possible... That's still stupid. The whole thing with Sheryl being saved wasn't as much of an issue... But they really made her illness seem to be like a bunch of nothingness. It's more like, "oh you're dying... THERE, all better." It's like having Cancer and then getting a shot and it going away two minutes later.
That's it? . . . (Not like that would be BAD... But the point is, incurable disease gone in minutes?)
The good was pretty much the rest of the episode, the best being somewhere around the combination of songs sung in the later half whilst Macross Quarter and Battle Frontier duke it out with Battle Galaxy, and Macross Quarter rips Battle Galaxy several thousand new ones. That scene was fantastic. I loved it, and I'd watch it again.
All in all, I thought the ending was pretty average. I tend to rate the LAST EPISODE of something based on the quality of its ending. How it wraps things up. The attention to details in the show. The extent of closure.
Macross Frontier was your average, "everything goes! No holding back! They live on, you don't hear from them again," ending. I liked it. They did things well. But it's no Code Geass. It doesn't get a ten from me in a million years.
Sheryl and Alto could do the deed and have children... I'd probably still rate it a nine. The ending and how things worked out were just too strange.
But then I suppose this post is flameworthy. I am talking about Macross after all. I respect the show, and I like the show... But Macross solves everything with singing and although I love singing I find that having the only thing singing can't do is destroy planets (please tell me singing has NEVER blown up a planet in Macross. Just... Please tell it hasn't) is a bit farfetched. With that having been said though... The quality of the scores and the variety of songs makes up for the fact that singing does everything short of blow up a planet (or at least... To my knowledge).
I was hoping Quarter would get blown away at some point. Captial ship deaths can be more awe-inspiring and tragic than a million snipers. Didn't even necessarily need to kill off any characters in the process. Just watch it slowly get torn to pieces, until finally KA-BOOM! And then the postmortem wreckage followed by cremation in atmosphere.
Naturally this probably impossible with a giant wanked to hell CG monstrosity.
Like I said it earlier, I thought the love triangle was UNRESOLVED but some people think Sheryl won and the final episode payed tribute to Misa and Hikaru throught Alto and Sheryl, so it's a sign that Sheryl won ....
The salute, the earring, Ranka's " I will not lose to you nor in love or songs" are a hint for you ?! OK....
Just before exposing some arguments, I know people will say this should go to the romance thread but I am responding to some post in this thread which since the 25 ended, claim that the LT is(for some tacitly)resolved and the movie will proove it ..
I will not just talk about romance... actually, some points aren't really focused on the romance plot ..
The earring
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
However, the ingenuity of Kawamori comes in when the camera focused on Alto's earring.
You surely talked about this picture : the earring sparkles...
Spoiler for the earring:
You're not the only one who say it, that, it's a symbol of their love ( Alto and Sheryl).
This is certainly not the case....
Because the camera focused on Alto's earring, right, but meanwhile Alto said " Sheryl, Ranka, you opened the sky..."
I don't know what is that exceptionnal about that earring, except that Sheryl already wore it ...
So, because the camera focused on Alto's earring, that's it!, Sheryl means more to Alto ?! ...
They focused on it too in the 7 and Alto heard Sheryl AND Ranka both singing, in this episode, he was able to see Ranka because of that earring, he even asked Sheryl to sing for Ranka...
Spoiler for It sparkles!!!:
My,,,
All Sheryl's fan who grasp their hopes in that earring, look at the picture
How they focused on the earring, how much it sparkles, Alto must really be in love with Sheryl, since it sparkled countless times in this episode...
Spoiler for So Alto is crazy in love ...:
My bad, it was because of the vajra.....
Quote:
Now, in Japanese culture, when a woman trusts an ornament to a man, it pretty much means marriage.
.......
Klan treasures now Michel's belongings so much that you can call it an ornament, like with his glasses, by example.
But she did something unbelievable in this final episode, what ? :
Spoiler for Giving such a precious thing ...:
It's official now, Klan and Alto will be in front of the priest soon.
Quote:
Given that Alto still wears it at the end, that entire scene speaks volumes.
Given that Alto still keep his sign call Skull 4 at the end with which he protects Ranka from the beginning , even though he was supposed to stay with his new one, Sagittarius-1 = Sheryl's constellation, his action speaks volume .
Ranka's line " I will not lose to you, nor in songs or love" which, here, is a sign of Ranka who becomes the outsider next to sheryl.
Before, here :
Spoiler for One:
Spoiler for Two:
Spoiler for Three:
The link ? You are right in saying how Sheryl and alto got to share a lot of time together.
The poor Ranka just could kiss him one time and the only opportunity was in acting in a movie..
But Sheryl as self confident as always took the initiave, too bad, when you rewatch the picture you see she was always the one who did it until the end...
Conclusion of the LT : We were all being tricked....
Ranka at the end of the final said " I will not lose to you, nor in songs or love" which is a sign of Ranka who becomes the outsider next to sheryl"..
So because Ranka said this, she is the loser?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
But facts are facts, Ranka is behind, and she admits to it. Give it up, people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
He may have evened the odds but it's still in Sheryl's favor as shown by several scenes throughout 25 let alone the events of 16-24. I mean c'mon, don't tell me Ranka's "Sheryl-san I won't loose from singing and love" didn't come off as a "rival" line. Seriously she came off as one of those 3rd wheels in a harem show telling the main girl that "it's not over yet". She's like the Tessa/Yoshida/Siesta to Sheryl's Kaname/Shana/Louise in that scene lol.
Huh, OK so what is that ? :
Spoiler for ...:
I mean c'mon
Spoiler for ..:
don't tell me Sheryl's " Ranka-chan I won't loose from singing and love" act in front of Alto didn't come off as a "rival" behaviour.
Spoiler for ...:
Seriously she came off as one of those 3rd wheels in a harem show telling the main girl that "it's not over yet
You will tell me it was 10 episode ago, I will respond you nothing changed until Ranka's departure.
Even with a missing Ranka we got to see that :
Spoiler for Sheryl:
Sheryl crying and saying " I knew it, but for a liitle longer I wanted to ..."
I will not talk again about the emotionless kiss scene in the 24 but in the end, even when Ranka was at the other side of the Galaxy, Sheryl still couldn't make Alto choose her ?!
...
The famous SALUTE that you all saw but missed at the same time .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga
It's a homage from the original Macross, where Misa and Hikaru salutes each other too. Hints anyone?
Yes, hints ...
People talk about a homage from SDF Macross, I talk about an EPIC HOMAGE FROM MACROSS FRONTIER...
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneeshadc
The salute felt like pretty much the same thing to me, it felt like a reminder to Sheryl from Alto that he's done what she asked of him, he's saved ranka-chan & she'll have to listen to whatever it is he wants to tell her later. It just felt like unspoken communication b/w them.
" unspoken communication" ?!
OK, for Ranka too then...
Quote:
Originally Posted by zalem
Ranka shippers are trying to play down the salute like crazy. But the parallel to Misa/Hikaru is just way too obvious to ignore. Oh well, they can console themselves with the fact that technically Alto did not choose anyone so we have this ambiguous ending...
Console ourselves ?!
Why ?... Alto saluted both of them..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
Its highly doubtful that, if you supported Ranka from the beginning, you'd think otherwise even after the subs. A lot of subtle references to that however, is in place. The salute for example (a subtle homage to Misa and Hikaru).
- Tak
Subtle, it's the word...
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneeshadc
I'm beginning to love that salute b/w them, I've played that scene like more than ten times already.
LOL it's kind of funny that you missed it then.... I saw it two times and I was like that ... Kawamori performed a master stroke...
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisis
Oh, yes, that salute is definitely meant for Sheryl. Words couldn't express how precious that scene was, because immediately after I saw the salute, I knew it was the biggest, most direct homage to Hikaru and Misa in Do You Remember Love? they could ever do. It was a touching scene. The salute is as direct as they could get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga
Err... I'll just answer these two questions
You should see musouka's post and you will realize that indeed, Alto (or Alto's VF) salutes Sheryl. Ranka was facing the other way besides Alto's VF was facing Sheryl anyway, with the two ships besides each other and the VF should be in the middle. Don't downplay the salute there, since you really can't bend that one out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
Not after the camera put a zoom on it. Ask yourself, why the focus? Seifall would love to deny anything to empower Sheryl, but if thats the intention of the show, then why the little details?
- Tak
I agree with you here : " why the little details " ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka
My favorite single moment was the salute. And, yes, it was between Alto and Sheryl. There were plenty of moments for Ranka/Alto shippers this ep, so be content with those and leave me the most blatant parallel between my second favorite het ship ever.
Spoiler for pictures:
The two ships are side by side:
You can see a shot of Sheryl's stage on Battle Frontier from Ranka's perspective:
Alto's VF comes up from between the two ships, right next to Sheryl's far away from Ranka's:
Switches modes and begins to incline towards Sheryl:
Salute! (musouka meeeelts):
Sheryl's response. Note, Ranka's facing the wrong way, Alto is on the other side:
Why is this important?
Spoiler for kicking it old school!:
That's right, pay attention to those lyrics:
Are you going to try to tell me he's saluting Minmay too?
It works until you say " Note, Ranka's facing the wrong way, Alto is on the other side".
Alto is not on the other side so your reasoning which says the salute was for Sheryl is not plausible, WHY ? :
Spoiler for Battle Frontier:
This is a Battle Frontier's picture, which I stole to ReddyRedWolf, , thanks
As you can see, he is by far larger than Macross Quarter.
Now let's look that picture :
Spoiler for Battle Frontier and Macross Quarter:
This is just before Alto showed up...
Here :
Spoiler for throught the screen:
Ranka sings her duet with Sheryl through the TV
Spoiler for Alto's VF:
You said : " Alto's VF comes up from between the two ships, right next to Sheryl's far away from Ranka's"
And here is what you said first : "The two ships are side by side".
Now let's look again at this picture:
Spoiler for ..:
She just just said Alto's name...
Now look at this picture :
Spoiler for Where is she looking ?:
I, when I watched it in live was surprised to see Sheryl saying Alto and turn her head in a direction where Alto is not...
She just said alto, but right after saying that, she turns her head, looking ahead like the ships direction , the north...
But how come she doesn't look in front of her since we too can see Alto's VF transformation here ?! ...
I'm not expert in animation but it looks obvious that they couldn't put SMS Q , Battle Frontier and Alto's VF in a same background from Sheryl's close perspective.
So to show Alto was between the ships they did made it look like he was close to Battle Frontier instead of SMS Q and right after made Sheryl turn her head in the real direction where Alto is.
Spoiler for ..:
She is looking ahead like Battle Frontier's trajectory
She clearly looks for Alto's VF since they just showed us she saw him(when it looks like the ships were close)...
You don't believe me ?
In fact , Alto is here :
Spoiler for between the two ships:
Why?! Because they showed us again the position of the two ships right after Alto's departure .
The ships aren't side by side :
Spoiler for Macross Quarter / B Frontier position:
Macross Quarter is on Battle Frontier, so lightly ahead, Alto must be ahead too , for Ranka and Sheryl can see him.
People still don't believe ?! OK let me show you THE proof...
The salute...
Spoiler for Homage ?:
People are so glad , WOW, he saluted Sheryl !!!
A pure homage to SDF Macross with Hikaru who saluted Misa in the same way!!!
This is such a beautiful homage since Hikaru confessed to Misa after that and we all know that they ended up together...
So the major part of people, mostly Sheryl 's fan jumped at the conclusion that this was the final homage to the original Macross so it's a strong message here = Sheryl is the one who Alto loves...
You will agree with me that Kawamori payed attention to do parallels with Misa, Hikaru and Minmei but ,WHAT !?!
Alto didn't choose Sheryl at the end, nor Ranka, so the homage stops here and the symbolism falls but would have had a meaning if Alto did chose Sheryl which didn't happen.. And yes, there is a movie but I will let you speculate about the continuation of Alto and Sheryl/Hikaru, Misa's love story...
So an homage from the old Macross serie can, of course be intrerpreted as a parallel for the characters, but AN HOMAGE FROM MACROSS FRONTIER is indeed THE symbol here since, I will show it, this is based on Alto and Ranka ONLYnot about Misa/Sheryl and Hikaru/Alto ...
Here, the answers :
Spoiler for Sheryl AND Ranka:
Sheryl is responding but Ranka too...
So Ranka obviously has seen Alto's movement.
You said that: " Sheryl's response. Note, Ranka's facing the wrong way, Alto is on the other side"
It's not because Sheryl is facing her screen and because Ranka has her back to the screen that she can't see the salute, ...
Spoiler for ..:
Sheryl's stage
Spoiler for the stage...:
Ranka's stage
Sheryl's stage without the main screen :
Spoiler for She is ahead and in center of the stage:
Here is the same stage with the main screen :
Spoiler for She stayed at her place, in front of the stage..:
Sheryl's screen is not on the side like in the scene where she singed with Ranka here :
Spoiler for The screen is on the side here ...:
But her screen is ahead.
So in this scene :
Spoiler for Ranka and Sheryl's duet through the screen:
Sheryl was looking at the biggest screen not the one on the side. You can see Ranka is looking in front of her too, not the screen on the side....
So the reasoning which says "Ranka's facing the wrong way, Alto is on the other side" is wrong here.
They're both facing the main screen, in front of the stage, not the small one on the side.
This is why we saw this:
Spoiler for Their answers:
Sheryl is responding, but Ranka too. Look at her sign with the three fingers, she is responding to Alto here ...
People still don't believe me, am I talking nonsense ?! OK...
Here is the final PROOF :
Spoiler for Homage ?....:
Alto is saluting Ranka and says " yo".
They shared their first and last kiss in this episode and Alto was consenting unlike when Sheryl kissed him in the 10 and 24.. (yes, shared, and people don't even try to say it wasn't shared since I can show you his expression in episode 24 when Sheryl kissed him ...)
This is the first and last time, in the serie that we saw Alto blushing like that knowing he will kiss Ranka :
Spoiler for It's time to venting here...:
People talked about a beautiful homage for Alto/Hikaru and Sheryl/Misa ?
This :
Spoiler for Yes, again...:
is THE MOST EPIC HOMAGE to Ranka and Alto only,not Misa/hikaru sheryl/Alto... AN UNNOTICED EPIC HOMAGE
Hum what is the link ?! No, I am not saying nonsense, this is actually pretty logic...
Here is the link :
Spoiler for EPICCC HoMaGe....:
Kawamori is indeed a GENIUS
I don't really know if the movie can still focus on Alto, Ranka and Sheryl, since a lot of questions are still unresolved at the end of the serie with Bilrer, Sheryl's parents, Galaxy..
But I hope the movie is a continuation of the final episode, and that Alto cling on his sky but with Ai kun and Ranka
Good Lord, Seifall, such a long post with so many pictures and you still don't understand basic perspective? It boggles the mind, it really does.
Ranka did not respond to Alto's salute. She didn't see it. Your pretty collection of pictures is so much the definition of Epic Fail that's not even funny.
What you fail at is providing a resounding argument as to how Alto could be saluting both girls. His VF didn't turn to acknowledge both. Thus, it's understandable he only saluted ONE of them. The VF is shown facing Sheryl. Sheryl responds to the salute. Ranka did not respond to it, she was just singing and dancing by herself - she did not even SEE him, then. Hence, the salute was for Sheryl alone. Subtle, yes. But not something you can actually disprove, sorry.
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I agree with you that Kawamori is indeed a genius (a devious one at that)
Dropping all those hints throughout the course of the entire serie to reach such an inconclusive ending (regarding the triangle) is quite an achievement.
So what is your point here ?! Where did I say the contrary ?!
I even said they couldn't put Alto SMS Q Battle Frontier and Alto's VF in the same background...
I showed you facts and you respond me with what ?! nothing
That was because you HAD nothing. You failed at providing some argument, thus... nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seifall
So what is your point here ?! Where did I say the contrary ?!
I even said they couldn't put Alto SMS Q Battle Frontier and Alto's VF in the same background...
Of course they can. The difference in scale from the measly VF to Macross Quarter is way more than enough for them to share the same background, sorry.
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I even said they couldn't put Alto SMS Q Battle Frontier and Alto's VF in the same background...
Sure they can. They're at the same height, just far away from one another. It's just a testament of how huge Battle Frontier is. Where you have Alto located, neither girl would have noticed the tiny pinprick VF.
Artist
... Kawamori performed a master stroke...
, thanks 
Sheryl's stage
Ranka's stage
