AnimeSuki Forums

Steampunk Librarian · 2010-01-19, 22:59

I wonder if kinda as a joke and kinda serious, what if Beatrice = Kinzo and Battler's sin has something to do with what he said to Kinzo. Kinzo's children were always afraid/striving for their fathers approve/combo of the above? Wouldn't that be symbolic of how the Stakes view Beatrice?

I don't know, trying to throw ideas out there.

Metaler · 2010-01-23, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder Book

Doesn't Sloth have a second meaning to do with sadness or something? Maybe that would change the interpretation of the stake/adults thing a little bit...

Yeah, something to do with depression, but I'm not sure. I can't see depression as a sin. ^^'

Marion · 2010-01-23, 16:52

The way I see it:

Natsuhi - Pride
Kyrie - Envy
Eva - Wrath
Rudolf - Sloth
Krauss - Greed
Hideyoshi - Gluttony
Rosa - Lust

Natsuhi is obviously very prideful of the family and her anger is only directed to those who go against the family or her husband. Kyrie being envy is pretty straightforward, as is Hideyoshi with gluttony. Eva and Krauss are more interchangeable, but Eva pretty much keeps snapping at people at any given moment she can, while Rosa seems to only get into anger over Maria. Rosa being lust fits because she does sleep around with men and therefore neglects her other duties (Maria, her company matters, etc) at the same time.

Rudolf is most likely Sloth. I can't see any reason for Ryukishi to pit Kyrie against her sin and just pick anybody at random for Rudolf. It doesn't make sense for the metaphor that both are going against themselves in a way. Now Sloth can mean laziness of course, but considering Rudolf works a lot, as Jan-Poo mentioned, that means that it may not be this way.

However sloth can also mean someone wasting their life or having others support them. Rudolf, while he does care for his family, neglected Asumu and Battler in a way and Kyrie clearly assists him a lot with his business, even if she doesn't work with him officially anymore.

Antera Caramichael · 2010-01-23, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marion

The way I see it:

Natsuhi - Pride
Kyrie - Envy
Eva - Wrath
Rudolf - Sloth
Krauss - Greed
Hideyoshi - Gluttony
Rosa - Lust

Personnally, I see more something like this:

Natsuhi = Pride
Krauss = Lust
Hideyoshi = Gluttony
Eva = Greed
Kyrie = Envy
Rudolf = Sloth
Rosa = Wrath

There is no doubt about Natsuhi being Pride, with all her stuff about honor, and the most aware of the price of the One-Winged Eagle, though she is not permitted to wear one.
Krauss always lived spending the money of his father, investing in projects that revealed to be catastrophic like his situation at the begining of the game. He does have money but does not know how to spend it reasonably, that is how I define Lust.
Hideyoshi is Gluttlony because of his appearance and job (Restaurant Manager) as well as he says to Eva being a cooking witch.
Eva is Greed, because we saw in Episode 3 that it is the main motivation of her being the culprit: She wants all the gold for herself, she wants to be a witch no matter what, she wants everything.
Kyrie being Envy has been explain by her.
Rudolf being Sloth is a little more complicated, but you resumed my thought. Though he is a good manager, he always listen to what Kyrie is saying to him and despite that he has money problems. Copaired to Kyrie who settle everything underground, and about his mariage, yes he is lazy, which is compensated by him looking cool (I wonder if it isn't actually the reason why he brought up this facade).
Rosa being Wrath: It is visible, if you contrary her, she is getting out of her bonds very easily, with Maria, her boyfriend etc etc...

moldy_tomato · 2010-01-23, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antera Caramichael

Personnally, I see more something like this:

Natsuhi = Pride
Krauss = Lust
Hideyoshi = Gluttony
Eva = Greed
Kyrie = Envy
Rudolf = Sloth
Rosa = Wrath

Natsuhi = Pride
Krauss = Sloth
Hideyoshi = Gluttony
Eva = Greed
Kyrie = Envy
Rudolf = Lust
Rosa = Wrath

This is how I see it.

I don't see how Rudolf could be Sloth

Marion · 2010-01-23, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by moldy_tomato

Natsuhi = Pride
Krauss = Sloth
Hideyoshi = Gluttony
Eva = Greed
Kyrie = Envy
Rudolf = Lust
Rosa = Wrath

This is how I see it.

I don't see how Rudolf could be Sloth

Whole thing with Rudolf being Sloth is that he is pitted against Belphegor, who represents Sloth. Why would Ryukishi pit Kyrie against her sin and just let someone at random fight with Rudolf. He was clearly going for the 'face your sin' metaphor, so if Rudolf's sin was lust then Asmodeus would have fought him instead. Just because it's not as straight forward doesn't mean it can't be figured out. Rudolf doesn't go around sleeping with women every day, unlike Rosa who is always leaving Maria alone to go to Hokkaido with some guy.

You also can't just count out Rosa, who was neglecting Maria by sleeping around with men constantly. She might be wrathful, but it's not like she snaps at Maria every single second and is constantly angry. Satan's TIPs says she likes getting people angry so she'll have someone to talk with and won't feel lonely. Rosa doesn't yell at Maria because she wants Maria to fight back.

Antera Caramichael · 2010-01-24, 03:48

No but the fact she is seeing men is a consequence of Maria pissing her off: She can't stand her regularly and her "trip" is conséquence of her not wanting to be a mother but a women.
She blame Maria for having stolen her status as a women, and thus, searching to go back as she was with sleeping with other guys. By the way, do we know if she is seeing more than a man?

LyricalAura · 2010-01-24, 11:13

It was said in TIPS that Belphegor works hard so that other people can be lazy. That aspect of sloth is a lot easier to apply to Rudolf than simple laziness.

EDIT: Heatth already said this on the previous page, I'm an idiot.

Jan-Poo · 2010-01-25, 05:40

It's funny though that Belphe is the only one that works that way. All the other sisters are quite the sinners in their respective fields, Belphe isn't lazy herself she just makes people get lazy. Mammon does both things, she is greedy and makes people become greedy.

ChibiBear · 2010-02-12, 16:32

I just noticed the lyrics of the OP for the first time while rewatching (Yes I am slow), and I was wondering if anyone thinks that the words might be some kind of clue or something along those lines?

Aebliss · 2010-02-12, 18:14

Anything's possible. *scratches head* One or two clues might be hidden in there, considering how twistes this mystery is. But then again, all that's in there may be red herrings.

tastythoughts · 2010-02-23, 20:05

Something has been borthering me for a while.

Spoiler for anime episode 21:

And my views of the Stakes of Purgatory thing:

Rosa: Lust
Natsuhi: Pride
Krauss: Greed
Kyrie: Envy
Eva: Wrath
Hideyoshi: Gluttony
Rudolf: Sloth..?

KoiYuki · 2010-02-24, 02:40

Here's my Stake/Parent connection theory.. thing. :> I based this off personality descriptions, basically just comparing the ones on Wikipedia, so.. not too sure about any of this. I basically just put the similarities and cut out the rest for you guys.

Spoiler:

I have a bunch of other drabbles, but I don't think they're right, and they get spoiler-ish.

ErenselTheJester · 2010-03-01, 03:29

I'm just wondering here, but what's the point of "Representations" theory? It doesn't really help much with the mysteries and just makes things more confusing.

KoiYuki · 2010-03-01, 18:11

I have no idea, I just did it because I was bored. I was trying to see if the magic characters on the board could all be attributed to one character each, telling who's actually there, etc.

Could possibly help to show who's meant to be attacked with what stake.. Iono.

It DOES make it more complicated if you say that whenever so-and-so Stake shows up, that means so-and-so parent shows up, but that's not really what I was going for.
Though I'm not totally sure WHAT I was going for OTL

Aebliss · 2010-03-02, 01:40

I think doing this is actually useful. If every magical being has a parallel to a mundane, then it can be argued that the whole magical theater being played before Battler's eyes is constructed from real-world events and people. It strengthens his position and may reveal some useful clues for a non-magical explanation.

ErenselTheJester · 2010-03-05, 16:51

When you put it that way it makes it sound a pretty good basis for forming theories, which it kind of is, but there are still some problems. Like right now, we are trying to guess who the seven stakes represent and its pretty hard to guess. It would also be very confusing because there are some situations in the show that might go against out guesses.

Aebliss · 2010-03-05, 17:13

Since when has a naka koro ni-scenario even been simple?

ErenselTheJester · 2010-03-05, 17:29

Good point, but I think we should hold off the "Representation" theory for later, at least until we figure out who Beatrice is.

Ummm... Its kind of hard to ask, but if I can request, I need some help on a few of the mysteries and I was hoping that some people might help me on them.

Aebliss · 2010-03-05, 17:36

Just say what's on your mind (while keeping in mind the subject and restrictions of this thread), and if someone can help, they probably will.

2010-01-24, 11:13	Link #1148
LyricalAura Dea ex Kakera Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sea of Fragments	It was said in TIPS that Belphegor works hard so that other people can be lazy. That aspect of sloth is a lot easier to apply to Rudolf than simple laziness. EDIT: Heatth already said this on the previous page, I'm an idiot. Last edited by LyricalAura; 2010-01-24 at 16:15.

2010-01-25, 05:40	Link #1149
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	It's funny though that Belphe is the only one that works that way. All the other sisters are quite the sinners in their respective fields, Belphe isn't lazy herself she just makes people get lazy. Mammon does both things, she is greedy and makes people become greedy. __________________

2010-02-12, 16:32	Link #1150
ChibiBear Aim's Stalker ^_~ Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Australia Age: 29	I just noticed the lyrics of the OP for the first time while rewatching (Yes I am slow), and I was wondering if anyone thinks that the words might be some kind of clue or something along those lines? __________________ Meow meow nano desu~ Nipah~

2010-02-12, 18:14	Link #1151
Aebliss Story Master Join Date: Mar 2008	Anything's possible. scratches head One or two clues might be hidden in there, considering how twistes this mystery is. But then again, all that's in there may be red herrings. __________________ Something new is coming. We bid you welcome ... to Overshadowed Earth. _____________________________________________ The start of Suzumiya Haruki no Setsubun.

2010-02-23, 20:05	Link #1152
tastythoughts 僕は紬ビジョンがある！ Artist Join Date: Oct 2009	Something has been borthering me for a while. Spoiler for anime episode 21: It's said the bunny figures Maria had were the Siestas. So, when Rosa smashed one, the Siesta "died". But in the anime, it said that since Rosa made Sakutaro, not the bunny, and she denied him, that he died. But Rosa didn't make the bunnies, did she? And furthermore, why would the bunnies that Maria owned be Eva-Beatrice's furniture? Because Maria reffered to Eva-Beatrice as the 'Black Witch' and wished that the Black Witch would go away. And my views of the Stakes of Purgatory thing: Rosa: Lust Natsuhi: Pride Krauss: Greed Kyrie: Envy Eva: Wrath Hideyoshi: Gluttony Rudolf: Sloth..?

2010-01-19, 22:59	Link #1141
Steampunk Librarian Member Join Date: Dec 2009	I wonder if kinda as a joke and kinda serious, what if Beatrice = Kinzo and Battler's sin has something to do with what he said to Kinzo. Kinzo's children were always afraid/striving for their fathers approve/combo of the above? Wouldn't that be symbolic of how the Stakes view Beatrice? I don't know, trying to throw ideas out there.

2010-01-23, 16:52	Link #1143
Marion The Great Dine Join Date: Feb 2009	The way I see it: Natsuhi - Pride Kyrie - Envy Eva - Wrath Rudolf - Sloth Krauss - Greed Hideyoshi - Gluttony Rosa - Lust Natsuhi is obviously very prideful of the family and her anger is only directed to those who go against the family or her husband. Kyrie being envy is pretty straightforward, as is Hideyoshi with gluttony. Eva and Krauss are more interchangeable, but Eva pretty much keeps snapping at people at any given moment she can, while Rosa seems to only get into anger over Maria. Rosa being lust fits because she does sleep around with men and therefore neglects her other duties (Maria, her company matters, etc) at the same time. Rudolf is most likely Sloth. I can't see any reason for Ryukishi to pit Kyrie against her sin and just pick anybody at random for Rudolf. It doesn't make sense for the metaphor that both are going against themselves in a way. Now Sloth can mean laziness of course, but considering Rudolf works a lot, as Jan-Poo mentioned, that means that it may not be this way. However sloth can also mean someone wasting their life or having others support them. Rudolf, while he does care for his family, neglected Asumu and Battler in a way and Kyrie clearly assists him a lot with his business, even if she doesn't work with him officially anymore.

2010-01-24, 03:48	Link #1147
Antera Caramichael French Maid Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Poitiers; France Age: 31	No but the fact she is seeing men is a consequence of Maria pissing her off: She can't stand her regularly and her "trip" is conséquence of her not wanting to be a mother but a women. She blame Maria for having stolen her status as a women, and thus, searching to go back as she was with sleeping with other guys. By the way, do we know if she is seeing more than a man?

2010-02-24, 02:40	Link #1153
KoiYuki Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Age: 32	Here's my Stake/Parent connection theory.. thing. :> I based this off personality descriptions, basically just comparing the ones on Wikipedia, so.. not too sure about any of this. I basically just put the similarities and cut out the rest for you guys. Spoiler: KRAUSS first child takes the initiative to lead the family conferences. investments end in failure. arrogant Despite always swaggering about, Krauss holds genuine remorse LUCIFER eldest acts as their leader. inferior acts arrogant and conceited to keep her weaknesses from being discovered ------- NATSUHI Unfortunately for her, all of her efforts are often undervalued by her husband LEVIATHAN Unfortunately for her, she is clumsy at everything she does and always comes out last ------- EVA rallies the other siblings fears that she is too domineering towards them. SATAN She often tries to intentionally anger her sisters so they can be angry with her easily angered and speaks with scornful inflection ------- HIDEYOSHI manages to tone down the tension between the siblings overweight BEELZEBUB She serves as a calming influence among the sisters gluttony ------- RUDOLF Kinzo's third child. philanderer Ange's father MAMMON third youngest extremely greedy she is Ange's best friend. ------- KYRIE keeping him in line when he gets out of hand Rudolf is still known to chat up young women from time to time, though this does not seem to disturb Kyrie. BELPHEGOR hard-working and sensible she isn't used to being treated with kindness. ------- ROSA youngest has the least influence at the family conference ASMODEUS youngest is not taken seriously among the sisters I have a bunch of other drabbles, but I don't think they're right, and they get spoiler-ish.

2010-03-01, 03:29	Link #1154
ErenselTheJester Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.	I'm just wondering here, but what's the point of "Representations" theory? It doesn't really help much with the mysteries and just makes things more confusing.

2010-03-01, 18:11	Link #1155
KoiYuki Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Age: 32	I have no idea, I just did it because I was bored. I was trying to see if the magic characters on the board could all be attributed to one character each, telling who's actually there, etc. Could possibly help to show who's meant to be attacked with what stake.. Iono. It DOES make it more complicated if you say that whenever so-and-so Stake shows up, that means so-and-so parent shows up, but that's not really what I was going for. Though I'm not totally sure WHAT I was going for OTL

2010-03-02, 01:40	Link #1156
Aebliss Story Master Join Date: Mar 2008	I think doing this is actually useful. If every magical being has a parallel to a mundane, then it can be argued that the whole magical theater being played before Battler's eyes is constructed from real-world events and people. It strengthens his position and may reveal some useful clues for a non-magical explanation. __________________ Something new is coming. We bid you welcome ... to Overshadowed Earth. _____________________________________________ The start of Suzumiya Haruki no Setsubun.

2010-03-05, 16:51	Link #1157
ErenselTheJester Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.	When you put it that way it makes it sound a pretty good basis for forming theories, which it kind of is, but there are still some problems. Like right now, we are trying to guess who the seven stakes represent and its pretty hard to guess. It would also be very confusing because there are some situations in the show that might go against out guesses.

2010-03-05, 17:13	Link #1158
Aebliss Story Master Join Date: Mar 2008	Since when has a naka koro ni-scenario even been simple? __________________ Something new is coming. We bid you welcome ... to Overshadowed Earth. _____________________________________________ The start of Suzumiya Haruki no Setsubun.

2010-03-05, 17:29	Link #1159
ErenselTheJester Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.	Good point, but I think we should hold off the "Representation" theory for later, at least until we figure out who Beatrice is. Ummm... Its kind of hard to ask, but if I can request, I need some help on a few of the mysteries and I was hoping that some people might help me on them.

2010-03-05, 17:36	Link #1160
Aebliss Story Master Join Date: Mar 2008	Just say what's on your mind (while keeping in mind the subject and restrictions of this thread), and if someone can help, they probably will. __________________ Something new is coming. We bid you welcome ... to Overshadowed Earth. _____________________________________________ The start of Suzumiya Haruki no Setsubun.