[Manga] Who is Tobi?

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

well, kisame takes chakra from others and integrates it into his body and this doesnt happen which is my point. it's also unconfirmed speculation to assume it is just chakra since chakra has never behaved that way in any other instance in the manga aside from the bijou. minato didn't exactly have time to explain in detail what he was doing. it clearly had something to do with the seal and the trigger he added. it isn't just chakra that is allowing his conscious mind to interact with naruto's. it's not even just memories since they are clearly having an unpredictable conversation. I guess this is one of those agree to disagree things since you are right in the fact that minato said he was inserting his chakra into the seal. my point is that there is a technique to it and not just chakra. kisame's absorption technique is just chakra

It just being chakra isn't just unconfirmed speculation, though, because that is exactly what Minato said it was. He didn't, however, say that he was putting anything but chakra into the seal. There may be a technique behind how it works, but it's still just chakra unless we're later told otherwise (which I wouldn't count on, since it's not that important to begin with). That it makes little sense is a flaw in the writing, not a flaw in the technique.

Agree to disagree, though, I guess.

right, but like hiking bear said it's all part of a bigger puzzle which still doesnt add up to a complete fact of course, but its a clearer puzzle than any other character so far. I actually like it. I think it will bring kakashi back to being a main character. I'm not really a fan of how he has been mostly ignored the past couple years. he used to be a main character right under naruto and sasuke and I prefer it that way. I could see alot happening with kakashi if tobi is obito which i am all for

Which is why the only thing I was saying was that they were both equally plausible, in theory, and that being able to use Izanagi doesn't on its own make it more likely that Tobi is Obito rather than a Zetsu clone. Odds are that Tobi is indeed an Uchiha (though it's far from certain), though.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Akashin

It just being chakra isn't just unconfirmed speculation, though, because that is exactly what Minato said it was. He didn't, however, say that he was putting anything but chakra into the seal. There may be a technique behind how it works, but it's still just chakra unless we're later told otherwise (which I wouldn't count on, since it's not that important to begin with). That it makes little sense is a flaw in the writing, not a flaw in the technique.

this is exactly what I've been saying though. it's chakra and a technique. you say yourself that he inserted it into the seal, which is a technique unto itself and also add that he put in a trigger for both himself and kushina to appear into the seal. like I keep saying, it's an intricate technique. I don't really see what you're arguing with. all ninjutsu techs are made of chakra. minato basically impanted a technique with his chakra into the seal to put it another way

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

1. What are the lines on the right side of his face? They could be scars or wrinkles. But it doesn't make much sense why he would create a brand new body with either of those.

Itachi has similar marks, so they need mean nothing. Or everything. They could be tribal. They could be marks of sagging. They could be similar to a Jinchuuriki's markings. They could be scars from surgeries needed to replace eyes over the years. Whatever the case, the lines are only as important as Kishimoto needs them to be (the same is true of Tobi's hair style (which has been compared to Danzou, Obito, Fugaku, Minato, Naruto, and a few others), and the fact that Tobi once had longer hair, similar to Madara, but then had shorter hair (which has led many to believe that there has been more than one Tobi (though this could also be an indication of when Madara died?)).)

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

2. If Madara transferred his memories into a Zetsu clone body, thus making Tobi, then why not give the Rinnegan to Tobi instead of Nagato? It would make more sense, since Nagato was only a boy at the time.

I never said Madara used a Zetsu clone body. I said he could have used a similar process, not that he used a Zetsu clone body (though he still could have (as I will briefly explain later)). It is unknown what Tobi is, but it can be assumed that he/it is of similar composition to Zetsu. Whether he is a Zetsu clone or not (or if he was an original body that had Zetsu parts added after the fact) is debatable.

That being said, we still do not know when Madara died, so presuming that he died before or after Nagato or Tobi is a beyond simple speculation (consequently, it is also hard to determine when Tobi was created). (He could have just as easily died the year of the Kyuubi attack, or the year Danzou attacked Nagato, or any other time moments before Kabuto brought him back to life.) Additionally, considering the importance of Uzumaki blood, and Nagato's relationship to the clan, it is always possible that no matter the timeline, the eyes needed to be placed in an Uzumaki (this is speculation based on the importance that Uzumaki blood has been given, almost as important as Senjuu and Uchiha), or they could have been placed there (no matter the timeline) in order to start an eventual war from that location (a long long term strategy).

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

3. Because Tobi performed Izanagi, a part of him needs to be Uchiha. Danzou was able to perform Izanagi because he incorporated Shisui's arm and Hashirama's face into his body. Those two elements plus the sacrifice of a Sharingan are what enabled Danzou to perform the technique. Tobi has Senju DNA (due to the Zetsu material in his body). But he must also have Uchiha DNA in his body. This rules out the idea that Tobi is simply a Zetsu body.

We have no idea what is under the masked half of Zetsu's body (the Black Zetsu). So, presumably, half of Zetsu could be Uchiha (or Uzumaki or something else).

Additionally, we already know that Zetsu can replicate others DNA and chakra, so why couldn't he have simply replicated Madara's? And considering that the doujutsu copied by this technique do not fully work (the design can be copied by Zetsu, but not the full abilities), that could explain why Tobi has jars of Sharingans to use.

Whatever the case, there are still methods available that do not require Obito.

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

4. There are currently 3 unexplained Sharingan Techs: Tobi's phasing power, Tobi's Time/Space Warp, and Kakashi's Kamui. Since Kamui and Tobi's Warp power resemble each other, the simplest solution would be to say that these two similar mystery powers have the same origin. A more complicated solution would be to say that they are completely unrelated, because then you must come up with two separate origins instead of one.

We have no idea if Tobi's abilities are Sharingan based or not (and, if they are, the fact that he only really uses defensive abilities could be an indicator that he is a Zetsu clone, since they are supposed to be weaker than the original). And Kamui could either be exclusive to Kakashi (a mutation caused by the evolution of the eye through a non-Uchiha), a knock-off of another technique (i.e. Kakashi without Uchiha blood only gained partial control of a previously known Uchiha technique), or simply one of many streamlined MS techniques (similar to Amaterasu and Susano'o (additionally, Tobi can presumably use, or find a way to use (Sasuke?), Tsukuyomi, since that is the basis of his future plans)). (The simplest solution is the third option I provided.)

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

Due to these problems, Zetsu clone Theory seems highly unlikely. Honestly, reasons 2 and 3 are enough to rule it out altogether. Obito Theory, on the other hand, doesn't have these problems.

Not really, what with the whole crushed to paste thing.

Whatever the case, i will say that it would be stupid to introduce a new Uchiha/character in the final chapters. So, Tobi is most probably either a character we know (Obito, Fugaku, Kagami, Izuna, Tobirama), a Zetsu clone or something similar (with Madara's memories or part of his soul?), or the Jyuubi (or something equally crazy, but has already been introduced).

Then again, for all we know, Madara could have used his Rinnegan to bring someone/anyone back from the dead, then make them become Tobi and everything that follows.

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by james0246

Itachi has similar marks, so they need mean nothing. Or everything. They could be tribal. They could be marks of sagging. They could be similar to a Jinchuuriki's markings. They could be scars from surgeries needed to replace eyes over the years. Whatever the case, the lines are only as important as Kishimoto needs them to be

Itachi's lines aren't really similar to Tobi's. Mifune's yes, Itachi's not so much. The point is to try to figure out Tobi's identity, and Kishi gives us a moment where Tobi actually removes the mask from part of his face. I suppose one can take a huge hint like that and say "it could be anything, maybe nothing important". To each their own I guess..

I never said Madara used a Zetsu clone body. I said he could have used a similar process, not that he used a Zetsu clone body (though he still could have (as I will briefly explain later)).

What do you mean by 'similar process' then? You're being vague here. If it's a body that's made out of Zetsu goo, then I disagree. If it's a Uchiha body with Zetsu material incorporated into it (as in Obito Theory), then I agree..

It is unknown what Tobi is, but it can be assumed that he/it is of similar composition to Zetsu.

It cannot be assume that Tobi, as a whole, is Zetsu material. We can say that his arm and hand are made of Zetsu material.

Whether he is a Zetsu clone or not (or if he was an original body that had Zetsu parts added after the fact) is debatable.

To me it's not. I'm not convinced that a Zetsu clone would be able to perform Izanagi. The theory is dead in the water if it can't get past that issue.

That being said, we still do not know when Madara died, so presuming that he died before or after Nagato or Tobi is a beyond simple speculation

No. We know that Madara died around 30 years ago.

(consequently, it is also hard to determine when Tobi was created). (He could have just as easily died the year of the Kyuubi attack, or the year Danzou attacked Nagato, or any other time moments before Kabuto brought him back to life.)

Nope. Madara told us when he died. It was shortly after he activated the Rinnegan. The Rinnegan was passed onto Nagato when he was a young kid. Edo Madara also knew Nagato by name. This gives us the timing for Madara's death.

We have no idea if Tobi's abilities are Sharingan based or not

lol. Nah, we definitely we have some idea. When Tobi warps,the swirl effect is centered on his Sharingan. It's very obviously a Sharingan power.

(and, if they are, the fact that he only really uses defensive abilities could be an indicator that he is a Zetsu clone, since they are supposed to be weaker than the original)

Tobi is arguably the strongest character in the manga right now. So, I would say that doesn't favor the Zetsu clone idea. I wouldn't consider Tobi to be weak. He did block Zabuza's sword with only his arm.

And Kamui could either be exclusive to Kakashi (a mutation caused by the evolution of the eye through a non-Uchiha), a knock-off of another technique (i.e. Kakashi without Uchiha blood only gained partial control of a previously known Uchiha technique), or simply one of many streamlined MS techniques (similar to Amaterasu and Susano'o (additionally, Tobi can presumably use, or find a way to use (Sasuke?), Tsukuyomi, since that is the basis of his future plans)). (The simplest solution is the third option I provided.)

As I mentioned before, what you suggest is a more complicated solution. Actually, it's not a complete solution at all, since it leaves Tobi's powers unexplained. The simplest solution would be one which accounts for Tobi's and Kakashi's powers as well as their similarity in one fell swoop. You only got as far as half of a solution that dismisses the similarity between Kamui and Tobi's Warping power.

Not really, what with the whole crushed to paste thing.

If the cave collapse is the only real objection to Obito Theory, then the theory is looking pretty good.

[Teru987]

The fact is that we know nothing about tobi and his powers so everything is just speculation. we dont know when he was born or made how he knew madara or anything until Kishi tell us. He will most likey spend a few chapter explaining Tobi cause he really is a new character since edo madara came out.

Nagato awoken his rinnegan when the 2 leaf ninjas killed his parents so how did they madara give him that. Madara hasnt said that he gave him the eyes only tobi but we all know tobi is a lair so we cant take anything he say as the truth. Madara could have meet him and saw that he had the eyes and that why he thought nagato brought him back.

When Tobi warps,the swirl effect is centered on his Sharingan. It's very obviously a Sharingan power.

or it could be Kishi was of messing with us cause his mask has only one hole and it swirls to that eye. I dont remember him using it with the new mask.

If the cave collapse is the only real objection to Obito Theory, then the theory is looking pretty good.

if you go back and look at when obito got crushed you can see its only his left arm and the left side of face that wasnt crushed. the rest of his body was and he was buried when the cave collapsed.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

this is exactly what I've been saying though. it's chakra and a technique. you say yourself that he inserted it into the seal, which is a technique unto itself and also add that he put in a trigger for both himself and kushina to appear into the seal. like I keep saying, it's an intricate technique. I don't really see what you're arguing with. all ninjutsu techs are made of chakra. minato basically impanted a technique with his chakra into the seal to put it another way

Wait, what exactly is your point then? If we're both saying the same thing (that what Minato did was put chakra into the seal), what are we debating over here?

Originally Posted by Teru987

or it could be Kishi was of messing with us cause his mask has only one hole and it swirls to that eye. I dont remember him using it with the new mask.

No, it's been confirmed (I think) that the Space-Time Migration originates from Tobi's eye. But I don't think it's been confirmed that it comes from his Sharingan, given that it would have to be a MS technique, and unless I'm mistaken we haven't seen Tobi use the MS.

[prakash123]

i jusy wanna say i disagree with the theory abt madara's conscious or whatever is inside tobi(who is supposedly obito).first of all if it was obito with madara's conscious why was he so shocked/scared of kabuto summoning his own body?the only reason could be that madara's body was hidden/buried so well almost nowhere to be found but kabuto managed to loacte it.but there was more to tobi's shock that just this.madara gave the rinnegan to nagato thinking that he could be revived again am i wrong on this?because thats what ive been seeing most of u say.if he had done that why mindrape obito?and also tobi is in a way similar to nagato as they both had the same idea but different plans of peace.they both only saw hatred and pain.to my understanding madara wasnt like that at all.madara was mad about obtaining infinite power and wanted to rule.it was never mentioned that he wanted peace in the world.he wanted to rule the world using the moons eye plan whereas tobi is using the same plan to bring peace by controlling people.2 people with 2 different mindsets.tobi "MIGHT"i repeat "MIGHT" be a reincarnation of the sage gone nuts as the world is in chaos.thats why he has powers of the uchiha and senju in him.so he wants to change the world but he cant reveal himself as the sage.that is maybe why he is collecting all the bijuus to recreate the 10 tail.well if u guys read this and wonder why did he have to go through all this and wage war to bring peace?well he managed to do one other thing as well.by bring everyone together to from the shinobi alliance and fight for one cause.OR maybe this whole thing is he might be someone else who just wants to bring peace to world and going around adopting disguises and maniker Uchiha Madara just to freak people out.from this point out kishi has made it quite obvious that tobi is someone we "DONT KNOW".firstly he was going around being madara and when naruto confronted him he say he "NO ONE".why go through all the bull just to end up telling naruto hes no one?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Akashin

Wait, what exactly is your point then? If we're both saying the same thing (that what Minato did was put chakra into the seal), what are we debating over here?

lol I don't think anything

Originally Posted by prakash123

i jusy wanna say i disagree with the theory abt madara's conscious or whatever is inside tobi(who is supposedly obito).first of all if it was obito with madara's conscious why was he so shocked/scared of kabuto summoning his own body?

he was shocked, but he was amused after the shock, not scared. he was amused because kabuto seemingly inadvertently helped tobi out by performing ET on madara. tobi was in a bind after nagato turned on him in that regard

the only reason could be that madara's body was hidden/buried so well almost nowhere to be found but kabuto managed to loacte it.but there was more to tobi's shock that just this.madara gave the rinnegan to nagato thinking that he could be revived again am i wrong on this?because thats what ive been seeing most of u say.if he had done that why mindrape obito?

it could just be direct control, but either way, madara needed a middleman between his death and rebirth to carry on his plans

and also tobi is in a way similar to nagato as they both had the same idea but different plans of peace.they both only saw hatred and pain.to my understanding madara wasnt like that at all.madara was mad about obtaining infinite power and wanted to rule.it was never mentioned that he wanted peace in the world.he wanted to rule the world using the moons eye plan whereas tobi is using the same plan to bring peace by controlling people.2 people with 2 different mindsets.tobi "

the moon's eye plan is direct control over the world no matter how you look at it. remember that tobi has existed all this time between madara's death and his ET revival, so he had plenty of time to alter his thoughts or change his wording on things or the incorporation of obito's consciousness has slightly altered his methodology. both tobi and madara still want the exact same thing no matter how they word it

MIGHT"i repeat "MIGHT" be a reincarnation of the sage gone nuts as the world is in chaos.thats why he has powers of the uchiha and senju in him.so he wants to change the world but he cant reveal himself as the sage.that is maybe why he is collecting all the bijuus to recreate the 10 tail.well if u guys read this and wonder why did he have to go through all this and wage war to bring peace?well he managed to do one other thing as well.by bring everyone together to from the shinobi alliance and fight for one cause.OR maybe this whole thing is he might be someone else who just wants to bring peace to world and going around adopting disguises and maniker Uchiha Madara just to freak people out.

its true that tobi could be anyone, but there is hardly any proof for other people compared to the plethora of hints that he is obito. why name himself Tobi which is obito reversed? why was tobi introduced right after kakashi gaiden? why did he never take kakashi's MS eye? which by any stretch of the imagination is something tobi would want

from this point out kishi has made it quite obvious that tobi is someone we "DONT KNOW".firstly he was going around being madara and when naruto confronted him he say he "NO ONE".why go through all the bull just to end up telling naruto hes no one?

it's not obvious who tobi is or isn't. obito as a person isn't someone that madara would have respected. nothing like hashirama for instance. he doesn't even respect the kages so obito basically is a nobody to him. just a vessel he needed and used

[prakash123]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

both tobi and madara still want the exact same thing no matter how they word it

but both their ideas of the moons eye plan are different.like i said madara just wants control over everything whereas tobis side to it is that he seems to have some kind of misguided/miserable/similar to nagatos past.both are 2 completely different ideas but just that moons eye plan is the only seems like the only way fot tobi.and if madara's conscious is in tobi why doesnt ET madara know it?he seems not to know anything about tobi.

[Silver-Throne]

I cannot believe it..Madara is not Tobi. Well ,Tobi is Tobi. His real identity is unknown(meaning it`s classified except him) .

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by prakash123

but both their ideas of the moons eye plan are different.like i said madara just wants control over everything whereas tobis side to it is that he seems to have some kind of misguided/miserable/similar to nagatos past.both are 2 completely different ideas but just that moons eye plan is the only seems like the only way fot tobi.

even if someone is claiming a plan like Moon's eye is for peace, they are simply lying. it's a false peace created by them having total control over everyone. before nagato believed in naruto, he didn't think a true peace was possible and thought that it could only happen out of fear and control

and if madara's conscious is in tobi why doesnt ET madara know it?he seems not to know anything about tobi.

why do you say that?

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by prakash123

i jusy wanna say i disagree with the theory abt madara's conscious or whatever is inside tobi(who is supposedly obito).first of all if it was obito with madara's conscious why was he so shocked/scared of kabuto summoning his own body?the only reason could be that madara's body was hidden/buried so well almost nowhere to be found but kabuto managed to loacte it.but there was more to tobi's shock that just this.madara gave the rinnegan to nagato thinking that he could be revived again am i wrong on this?because thats what ive been seeing most of u say.if he had done that why mindrape obito?and also tobi is in a way similar to nagato as they both had the same idea but different plans of peace.they both only saw hatred and pain.to my understanding madara wasnt like that at all.madara was mad about obtaining infinite power and wanted to rule.it was never mentioned that he wanted peace in the world.he wanted to rule the world using the moons eye plan whereas tobi is using the same plan to bring peace by controlling people.2 people with 2 different mindsets.tobi "MIGHT"i repeat "MIGHT" be a reincarnation of the sage gone nuts as the world is in chaos.thats why he has powers of the uchiha and senju in him.so he wants to change the world but he cant reveal himself as the sage.that is maybe why he is collecting all the bijuus to recreate the 10 tail.well if u guys read this and wonder why did he have to go through all this and wage war to bring peace?well he managed to do one other thing as well.by bring everyone together to from the shinobi alliance and fight for one cause.OR maybe this whole thing is he might be someone else who just wants to bring peace to world and going around adopting disguises and maniker Uchiha Madara just to freak people out.from this point out kishi has made it quite obvious that tobi is someone we "DONT KNOW".firstly he was going around being madara and when naruto confronted him he say he "NO ONE".why go through all the bull just to end up telling naruto hes no one?

It would be dull if Tobi turns out to be some kind of clone of Madara so I doubt Kishi will disappoint us like that.

Tobi admitted to Naruto that he didn't care about peace so it seems like Madara and Tobi may have similar reasons as to why they are doing the moon eye plan such as making a perfect world for themselves.

I think Kishi should have Tobi unmasked soon since its been too long.

And now would be the perfect time to show who Tobi is since Madara may be beaten soon if Itachi and Sasuke genjutsu Kabuto to stop his edo's.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Until the current chapter i was thinking that most probably it's Madara's brother. But now Madara tells that his brother left him only his eyes, implying his brother is dead, so if Madara cooperated with Tobi in the past then Tobi can't be Izuna.

Another issue is that if Tobi was yet another Uchiha then i think the story would be too much Uchiha centered in the end, and since Naruto will play a key role, it would be logical that Tobi is not an Uchiha. I believed that Tobi must be an Uchiha since when he talks about the Uchiha's history he appears to be very emotional, as if he were definitely part of the clan. But he did talk about Madara's story as his own in the same way, and we know he was lying. Unless he is a super-clone Madara made with some enhanced izanagi while he was dying. But being a clone doesn't seem like an interesting story.

So i think Tobi might be an Uzumaki or a Senju or some other descendant of the sage of 6 paths. In that case he would be connected to both Naruto and Sasuke, making him a less Uchiha centered character. But for that Kishimoto must create a lot more of history, Tobi having flashbacks.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

So i think Tobi might be an Uzumaki or a Senju or some other descendant of the sage of 6 paths. In that case he would be connected to both Naruto and Sasuke, making him a less Uchiha centered character. But for that Kishimoto must create a lot more of history, Tobi having flashbacks.

it's obviously a possibility for him to be one of those and it could make for an interesting story, but I don't see it happening, or I should say it doesn't work according to what we know about tobi's personality. if he was senju, then why has he talked so poorly of them? and why would edo-madara work with a senju after such a bitter rivalry? why would a senju be so angry at the world? of course it could happen, but there's no precedent.

he does use a similar tech to kushina with the chakra chains for the bijou, but if he was uzumaki then I would think he would be familiar with their potential and not write off naruto so easily. an uchiha (especially one as old as madara or older like the RS' elder son) would write off an uzumaki as not comparable to the potential of the uchiha. he thinks of naruto (despite naruto's massive power now) as still inferior to him

[prakash123]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Until the current chapter i was thinking that most probably it's Madara's brother. But now Madara tells that his brother left him only his eyes, implying his brother is dead, so if Madara cooperated with Tobi in the past then Tobi can't be Izuna.

Another issue is that if Tobi was yet another Uchiha then i think the story would be too much Uchiha centered in the end, and since Naruto will play a key role, it would be logical that Tobi is not an Uchiha. I believed that Tobi must be an Uchiha since when he talks about the Uchiha's history he appears to be very emotional, as if he were definitely part of the clan. But he did talk about Madara's story as his own in the same way, and we know he was lying. Unless he is a super-clone Madara made with some enhanced izanagi while he was dying. But being a clone doesn't seem like an interesting story.

So i think Tobi might be an Uzumaki or a Senju or some other descendant of the sage of 6 paths. In that case he would be connected to both Naruto and Sasuke, making him a less Uchiha centered character. But for that Kishimoto must create a lot more of history, Tobi having flashbacks.

this is basically what ive been trying to say..i'll give to ya man..i totally agree with you.this is why im saying that tobi is someone we really dont know.hes a shadowand why the does he have to keep wearing the mask?removing it certainly wouldnt spoil anything

[prakash123]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

why do you say that?

well when ET madara was summon kabuto did say that all of this was the doing of the man who claims to be madara.at that point ET madara didnt/doesnt have and idea of who it was.so why would u say that ET madara conscious/memories or whatever is in tobi.and also if it was did he plan to start a war when he "so called" transferd himself into tobi ?to activate the moons eye plan?how could he have possibly thought so far out?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by prakash123

well when ET madara was summon kabuto did say that all of this was the doing of the man who claims to be madara.at that point ET madara didnt/doesnt have and idea of who it was.

the way I read it, EdoMadara doesnt know who used ET on him, so kabuto tells him it was him. Edo madara was expecting to get brought back to life by nagato. everything points to edo madara knowing tobi and who he is though. i'm not sure why you would think otherwise. it sounds like they are both well aware of the moon's eye plan and concocted it together. of course if tobi is madara's consciousness then it is all him anyway

so why would u say that ET madara conscious/memories or whatever is in tobi.and also if it was did he plan to start a war when he "so called" transferd himself into tobi ?

there aren't many people tobi can be. how can a no name person become so strong without any of the kages or stronger ninja ever being aware of them existing? or history for that matter. we're talking god-like ninja powers here. an anonymous ninja wouldn't make sense. there had to be past masters and past battles that would account for tobi being so strong that people would be aware of. only madara fits this description since his brother was pretty much ruled out recently. it could also be RS or his sons, but they are not unknown and there is little to no proof it is them.

to activate the moons eye plan?how could he have possibly thought so far out?

edo madara knows of the plan therefore it was planned out that long ago when he was still living.

[prakash123]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

the way I read it, EdoMadara doesnt know who used ET on him, so kabuto tells him it was him. Edo madara was expecting to get brought back to life by nagato. everything points to edo madara knowing tobi and who he is though. i'm not sure why you would think otherwise. it sounds like they are both well aware of the moon's eye plan and concocted it together. of course if tobi is madara's consciousness then it is all him anyway

there aren't many people tobi can be. how can a no name person become so strong without any of the kages or stronger ninja ever being aware of them existing? or history for that matter. we're talking god-like ninja powers here. an anonymous ninja wouldn't make sense. there had to be past masters and past battles that would account for tobi being so strong that people would be aware of. only madara fits this description since his brother was pretty much ruled out recently. it could also be RS or his sons, but they are not unknown and there is little to no proof it is them.

edo madara knows of the plan therefore it was planned out that long ago when he was still living.

oh well dude.i hope whtever u say is right.cause i think of anything anymore lol.i just cannot wait to see who it is...haizz

but i just wanna say that i highly doubt its obito with madara's crap

oh and also where/when was it mentioned that madara gave nagato the rinnegan?

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

there aren't many people tobi can be. how can a no name person become so strong without any of the kages or stronger ninja ever being aware of them existing? or history for that matter. we're talking god-like ninja powers here. an anonymous ninja wouldn't make sense. there had to be past masters and past battles that would account for tobi being so strong that people would be aware of. only madara fits this description since his brother was pretty much ruled out recently. it could also be RS or his sons, but they are not unknown and there is little to no proof it is them.

I don't get what you're trying to say here. It's a fact that Tobi is an immensely powerful ninja that virtually nobody knew about, so why does his identity play a role into the likelihood of that? Whether Tobi is Obito under Madara's control or that one random guy that everybody thought got shanked during the third war but actually survived, the fact that he became as strong as he is without anybody really noticing remains the same. Nagato did the same thing (albeit largely due to the complete lockdown Amegakure was under).

And I don't think anybody is saying Tobi should be somebody completely anonymous, though I could be wrong.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

it's obviously a possibility for him to be one of those and it could make for an interesting story, but I don't see it happening, or I should say it doesn't work according to what we know about tobi's personality. if he was senju, then why has he talked so poorly of them? and why would edo-madara work with a senju after such a bitter rivalry? why would a senju be so angry at the world? of course it could happen, but there's no precedent.

he does use a similar tech to kushina with the chakra chains for the bijou, but if he was uzumaki then I would think he would be familiar with their potential and not write off naruto so easily. an uchiha (especially one as old as madara or older like the RS' elder son) would write off an uzumaki as not comparable to the potential of the uchiha. he thinks of naruto (despite naruto's massive power now) as still inferior to him

We are learning more and more about Tobi. He thinks there is no hope for this world, so it seems he doesn't believe in any clan or village or idea any more, he believes only in his own plan. So in whatever clan he was it doesn't matter to him any more, as he said to Naruto, it doesn't matter what happens now because when his plan succeeds then nothing what happened in the past will matter any more. He is talking about his own version of ending the world. If he plans on doing such a thing then why would it matter to him what happens with his former clan.

Tobi also says that he has no name and he doesn't want to have one, he just wants to remain a nobody. I think whatever clan and village was he part of, he decided to forget the whole thing, and don't care about it any more. So he "thinks poorly" of whatever clan he was part of, he doesn't even want to use his own name any more. Now that i think of it, not wanting to use a name is probably a hint that he had a name, and his name was well known, and he was probably part of a well known clan. And why would he be angry to the world and konoha as a senju? Maybe because he thinks that the will of fire and the peace with the Uchiha and the Senju being in charge of Konoha did lead to his clan going extinct. The only known Senju descendant that is alive is Tsunade. While the Uchiha survived until the massacre, the Senju seem to be extinct. So maybe Tobi thinks that it was all because of Hashirama's will of fire, maybe he was the Senju who opposed Hashirama's will to create an alliace between them and the Uchiha. If that were true he would think the same way as Madara: his own clan betrayed him. So it's not impossible to create a story like this, to make of Tobi a Senju. But i think it's more probable that he is either an Uzumaki or for example the Sage of 6 paths had a 3rd son, one who didn't become a legend, who didn't have a name in history.

And i think that we already see the first signs of the story becomeing less Uchiha centered, and becoming more Sage of 6 paths centered. The flashback of the Kyuubi with the Sage, the sharingan turning into rinnegan, the clear signs that Naruto is the new savior that the sage was talking about. If the story become centered around the Sage then Tobi should not be an Uchiha but someone else, someone who is somehow connected to the sage himself and not just a random Uchiha. The sage's brother, the sage's 3rd son, the sage's rival, the soul of the 10-tails, all of these are a better choice than yet another Uchiha.