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Old 2018-09-09, 03:54   Link #1
0cean
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Anime were the bad guy wins

I'm already aware of lots of anime where the protagonists can already be considered the bad guys. Stuff like Black Lagoon, Death Note, Baccano, Golgo 13, Cobra, Jormungand, Overlord,... more of that is always welcome...

But are there anime where either the protagonist is the good guy or it's unclear who the protagonist is, but the bad guy wins? But not in the sense of a tragedy and not in the sense of battle shounen, where first the bad guy wins, then the good guy powers up and kicks the bad guys ass. That's stupid. It mustn't be a temporary victory on the bad guys part.

Also, don't confuse bad guy with antagonist. The antagonist doesn't have to be a bad guy, just like the protagonist doesn't have to be a good guy.

Edit:

List of anime where the bad guys win
[2000] Jin-Rou
[2002] .hack//SIGN (vague)
[2005] Basilisk (only on a technicality, not really what I'm looking for)
[2007] Shigurui (vague)
[2010] Katanagatari
[2012] Wasurenagumo


List of anime where the bad guys are the protagonist and win
[2006] Black Lagoon
[2006] Death Note (first season of 25 episodes)
[2007] Baccano
[2008] Golgo 13
[2010] Cobra
[2012] Jormungand
[2015] Overlord
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Last edited by 0cean; 2018-09-17 at 07:23.
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Old 2018-09-09, 05:15   Link #2
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Avengers : Infinity War
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Old 2018-09-09, 06:02   Link #3
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans
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Old 2018-09-10, 06:37   Link #4
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Samurai Warriors/Sengoku Musou - it’s a historical anime (with some changes), and ending follows history.
JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure: Phantom Blood. It’s a heroic sacrifice ending, if you’ll take it by itself... But Part 3 reveals that villain has won.
Fate/Zero
Berserk first TV series (or Golden Age movies)
Shaman King manga (not anime)

Special mention: Rurouni Kenshin - Kyoto arc. Shishio dies in a battle with Kenshin, but it is directly stated that years later his ideals would prevail in Japan.
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Old 2018-09-10, 11:16   Link #5
0cean
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How is the bad guy winning in Fate/Zero? I remember
Spoiler for :


Berserk doesn't fit, since it's only a temporary setback. Also, there's no bad guy. Shit just happens.

I'm not interested in Manga, that's why I specified "anime" in the title.


Maybe it's also worth mentioning where I'm coming from. I recently watched the Hitchcock classic "Dial M for Murder" (1952) and was really disappointed by the predictable ending. It would've been way cooler if he had gotten away with it. I was just as disappointed by the ending of FMA Brotherhood. It would have been amazing if the protagonists would've died and the bad guy won in the end. Just like Death Note would've been better if it had ended after 25 episodes. Watching Shingeki no Kyojin got me similarly excited, but then authors always have this bad habit of reviving the protagonist. That's one of the things Hitchcock got right in at least one of his movies.
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Old 2018-09-10, 15:15   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0cean View Post
How is the bad guy winning in Fate/Zero? I remember
Spoiler for :
Spoiler for :

Oh, and that's aminor thing, compared to what I've listed, but Artoria became even more sure that she was a bad ruler after her fight with Lancelot.

So yeah, that is definetly counts as a "bad end" and "bad guys win". Although I'm not sure if it fits to your criteria, since technically it's not a standalone story, but rather a prequel to Fate/Stay Night.
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Old 2018-09-11, 11:57   Link #7
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Yeah, even if you want to see it that way - which I don't - it's still only temporary. Just because the good guy didn't meet all his objectives, doesn't mean the bad guy won. That would have meant a good ending for Caster and his master. Kirei is more of a tragic hero than he is a bad guy, imho. He, like Kiritsugu, is fundamentally broken as a human, but other then being the antagonist he didn't do anything that would earn him a position as a bad guy.

You focus too much on "bad things happening" at the end. That, I don't care for. I want the bad guy winning. So if Caster had won the grail, F/Z would fit the bill. (And that would've been awesome, but being a prequel the ending was predetermined.)
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Old 2018-09-11, 13:01   Link #8
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Fate/Zero certainly featured a lot of bad guys winning "battles" but 0cean is correct in pointing out that the bad guys did not win the "war" (because nobody did). Of course, nobody is really going to know if that's enough to fit your criteria unless they point it out. It's difficult to think of a story where the bad guy wins and isn't treated as a tragic or pyrrhic victory. I wonder if that's even possible.
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Old 2018-09-11, 14:15   Link #9
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Only example I can think of where a bad guy won and it was treated as a good ending is Shingeki no Bahamut: Virgin Soul
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Old 2018-09-12, 12:45   Link #10
0cean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
It's difficult to think of a story where the bad guy wins and isn't treated as a tragic or pyrrhic victory. I wonder if that's even possible.
It's only difficult if you add the criteria that the protagonist is supposed to be the good guy. Even mainstream anime like One Piece technically feature the bad guys as protagonists.

It's possible to make a case for .hack//SIGN, I guess. Other then getting Tsukasa out of the game, nothing much was accomplished. All the people that fell into a coma remained like that. And one could argue that the AI was the bad guy.

Then there's Basilisk (2005), where everyone died and left a main bad guy (or girl in this case) - who didn't appear at all during the the main events of the anime - winning. Not quite what I had in mind, though.

Shigurui also qualifies, where the bad guy gets away with fucking the masters wife and then killing the master. Could be a temporary thing, though. It's never revealed in the anime, as far as I remember.

Or Katanagatari. Just watch it yourself, if you haven't yet. It's awesome. Just like Wasurenagumo, Jin-Rou or maybe even Megami Kouhosei. Not going to reveal how those qualify.


Maybe that helped clarifying what I mean.
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Old 2018-09-12, 14:39   Link #11
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I think technically Revolutionary Girl Utena counts as Akio's victory.
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Old 2018-09-13, 11:25   Link #12
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Technically the Evil Queen wins in Sailor Moon, but then flashing light and a reset happen. I think that's just how Shoujo-Anime are.
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Old 2018-09-13, 20:42   Link #13
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The first season of Psycho-Pass. A cop is killed, one abandons the country, another becomes Reinforcer, another who died did not even have a grave and the MC is kind of depressed. The novelization made it even worse as Akane starts having hallucination of dead people.

Also, D.Gray-man Hallow has tones of that. Allen is pointed out by the bad guys he is no longer welcome by and he comes to realize they are right as due to a confusion, the entire Order is given the mission to execute the guy.

Last edited by Mad Pierrot; 2018-09-13 at 20:55.
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Old 2018-09-13, 23:25   Link #14
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I'm not sure if it quite fits the bill, but you might want to check out Chrno Crusade. The anime, at least, implies that the Bad Guys won
I don't know how much more anime is out there that fits the bill- most viewers want the Good Guys to win, and if you make something that doesn't do that, there go your sales.
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Old 2018-09-14, 09:07   Link #15
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Shin Sekai Yori (If you look at the big picture, then the ending is essentially the "long-time oppresor" winning against the "long-time oppressed")
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Old 2018-09-14, 10:51   Link #16
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Hmm...

Overlord? Technically the mc and his group are the bad guys \_(ツ)_/
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Old 2018-09-14, 18:51   Link #17
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Shin Mazinger Z. The most epic troll ending ever. There is never going to be a sequel to it due to issues with studio.
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Old 2018-09-16, 15:12   Link #18
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@Psycho-Pass
Like I've mentioned before, I do not care for bad stuff happening. I want the bad guy winning. For that to happen there needs to be a bad guy and he needs to win. Or get away with whatever bad stuff he was doing. (And it mustn't be a temporary victory to be sorted out in season two or whatever, either.)

@Chrono Crusade
It's kind of vague. Not what I have in mind.

@Shin Sekai Yori
No, the good guys won. Your moral compass is all messed up if you think otherwise.

@Overlord
The protagonist ain't the good guys. Like I've said, I'm also always interested in the bad guys being the protagonist and then winning, but it just so happens that Overlord was among the examples I've listed in the very first post of this thread. Good job on reading that one.

@Shin Mazinger Z
So it's like Panty & Stocking? But I've never managed to get into this whole Mazinger thing. According to my list I've even watched this one about a decade ago. I don't remember and according to my list I hated it back then.
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Old 2018-09-16, 16:24   Link #19
Mad Pierrot
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The manga Devilman has a combination of bad endings with the villain Satan managing to destroy all humans. The netflix series Crybaby tried to make Satan a bit tragic during the ending.
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Old 2018-09-16, 22:13   Link #20
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Well, your restriction that it musn't be a tragedy does make things harder, since that precludes a lot of series where the ultimate 'bad guy' is the system or an overarching force the protagonists cannot hope to overcome in the larger set of things. If you don't mind series on that vein I would recommend

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