2012-05-03, 11:58 | Link #28681 | ||||||||
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It's no proof though, just a feeling. Quote:
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And it's true that George merely states his dream and never asks her if she has her owns because he's a pretty egocentrical guy but well, she always seemed to agree with them, so even if he'd been less egocentrical, there were low chances it would dawn on him she didn't like his plans. Quote:
In the manga you see in Ep 3 & 4 a black human shape who supposedly represent Beato or better Beato's true self. However that human shape has no recognizable traits like clothes or hair. Likely this is to keep up the mystery about who she is (in EP 8 she's given clothes and hair) and not due to Yasu wandeering around naked (or in really tight clothes) and hairless but well, as I said, the idea that Yasu might have few hair gave to this representation of her an entirely new meaning... Quote:
Though there can be reasons to keep around the body I tend to think that in Prime they disposed of the body way earlier and it was kept around only on the gameboards. It's really a well constructed plot for a fic and also an interesting theory. |
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2012-05-03, 12:05 | Link #28682 |
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You know, that was still a very entertaining read even if the details weren't 100% tight yet. Maybe there exists a space of fan fiction that, instead of writing alternate events of the two days on Rokkenjima, tries to "Later Queen" Umineko. That is stories which tries to alter the original story as much as possible with newly discovered "facts."
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2012-05-03, 13:02 | Link #28683 | |
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I kid, I kid. Man, I love you guys, I throw out an idea I have and you guys come up with all these conflicting ideas that I hadn't even dreamed of. At this rate, I'll never end up bored with Umineko.
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2012-05-03, 13:19 | Link #28684 | |
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2012-05-03, 13:23 | Link #28685 | |
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At least for me, at that point, I was pretty certain that she'd faked her death. |
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2012-05-03, 13:37 | Link #28686 | |
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But as far as I remember that happened in tatarigoroshi, the third arc. I was thinking about the first two. Of course when you consider later arcs the difference becomes apparent, that is precisely why I don't think that the idea of Maria being alive is even remotely probable now, but it could have been a plausible possibilty up to EP4 I think.
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Ikuko amusingly listen to the whole story, laughing at the whole idea in her mind and in the end she just unswers evasively: "who knows maybe I truly am Beatrice". She doesn't really mind that at first, but then slowly that idea keeps eating at her thoughts, and she finds herself thinking: "Wait... if Battler one day woke up with a completely different personality, what if..."
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2012-05-03 at 13:50. |
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2012-05-03, 15:51 | Link #28688 | ||
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2012-05-04, 12:04 | Link #28689 |
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Well, there have been several statements by Ryukishi that Shanon definitely loves George and from the quotes I provided in Umineko Comprehensive(in my signature, I updated it), it's clear she was planning in a future with him at first. Before he stated going on about having children, she was hoping that she would be "discovered" on the night of the Okinawan trip. As per the interview. Ah, maybe we should just dig out the link if you haven't read it. Where was it...
She had by that time already abandoned her hopes on Battler. She still wanted to have the perfect "love" with George despite all this, although she knew it could only go as far as the night of the Rokkenjima incident. |
2012-05-04, 12:21 | Link #28690 |
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My main problem with this claim is that the Love Duel never read to me like that at all. It really does seem like Battler was always the choice and George is just a consolation prize, and that she can never really get over her hangup regardless of what she says about George.
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2012-05-04, 14:55 | Link #28692 | |||
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Plus, EP6, EP7, and EP8 seem to suggest that she truly loved Battler and only had regarded George as a replacement. It seems that her "love" was generated from the fact that she wanted out of the island, and since George loved her so much it shouldn't be a problem to tell him the truth. Otherwise, if this be not the case, then what's up with Battler? EP7 suggests that she had always harbored feelings for him and that the only part of her that "moved on" was Shannon. The Love Duel suggested that she only had one option between the three of them because she can't be with them all at the same time. So she really had to choose which one of her personas was she going to live the rest of her life as. So, yeah, please bring up those qoutes.
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2012-05-04, 15:29 | Link #28693 | |||
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An interesting point in EP 7 is that it shows a Yasu seems to desperately need some kindness. Quote:
And Ryukishi07 himself implied she had feelings for him. Quote:
Though in regards to George/Battler, I think the problem was that for George she felt strong affection, not love, and that she had spent 6 years idealizing her love for Battler. Out of sheer luck (or due to serious misfortune) when Battler comes back after 6 years, he still fits her ideal. However in those 6 years Battler might have changed so much she couldn't have been capable to stand the sign of him. So maybe Yasu is right and fate REALLY hates her. |
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2012-05-04, 15:58 | Link #28694 |
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Shannon loved George, Kanon loved Jessica, but neither of them was a person, they were just... masks, furnitures, fake personalites... whatever you want to call them.
Yasu herself didn't really love them, and she didn't even think that maybe it wasn't right to involve them in her crazy plan for something that was between her and Battler and that had absolutely nothing to do with them. The strife for Kanon and Shannon to become "human" symbolizes Yasu's attempt to actually become either of them making their feelings true in her heart (it's hard to believe that could work, and in fact it didn't). As far as we know the only feelings of love that Yasu made her own (albeit they started with Shannon) were those for Battler. And that happened about the time Kanon was created. Despite the fact that Episode 6 shows Shannon as the victor I think the two servants already lost by the time Yasu went crazy when she learned that Battler was coming back.
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2012-05-04, 20:38 | Link #28695 | |
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2012-05-05, 05:37 | Link #28696 | |
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Both Battler himself and Erika noted, that Battler seems smarter than "he should be" in EP5-6. But if we go with EP6 genius Battler, it is more probable that EP1-4 Battler was out of character instead (imagining a 12 year old Battler in the body of a 18 year old Battler), and EP5-6 Battler was closer to Prime-reality. So the message bottles try to hide the changes that may have happened, or maybe she just didn't change the character in her mind, because she "didn't know" how he really is now. Last edited by GreyZone; 2012-05-05 at 05:55. |
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2012-05-05, 10:57 | Link #28697 | ||||
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Also given that Kanon lost the love duel implies anyway that love was not that strong. Quote:
George: she is unable to provide the future that he wants Jessica: the relationship does not seem like something that will be that long lasting(seems more like one of those high-school relationships) Battler: seems to not care what ever became of Shannon I do think that the Quote:
If the murder game was described as a roulette that the game, in fact Kanon was described as the 0 in the game. I do think that implies that Kanon can win the game as well despite the low odds. In fact in game 3 that Kanon gets another chance but loses despite the heavy odds. Claire did say that she would have still struggled with the love duel and an incident would have happened only that wouldn't have magnified to the extent like it did when Battler came back. That does not imply to me that the servants already lost by the time Yasu went crazy when s/he learned that Battler was coming back. Quote:
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2012-05-05, 12:13 | Link #28700 |
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Without Battler, Yasu just has to choose between Kanon with Jessica or Shannon and George, but now that Battler came back, the emotions Yasu gave Beatrice came rushing back into em. With the addition of Beatrice's emotions, Yasu may as well be have been pulled apart by three different people.
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