[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 6 Dawn of the golden witch

[immblueversion]

I still seek closure regarding Rosa and Maria, wanting them to come to closer terms with one another once and for all. I believe strongly that a confrontation between Rosa and her husband, or at least her feelings towards her husband, must be a part of that picture if she is to truly atone for the dark deeds she had admittedly committed against her daughter caused by such an unfortunate occurrance.

[Nabiki Asakura]

Sorry but I didn't read all the topic (still), but I was discussing with some friends about the explosion and, the police found the corpses in episode 1, so there was no explosion in episode 1?@_@
Oh, and sorry if someone asked it already

Spoiler:

I was thinking about the possibility that the explosion just occurs in the garden, then in episode 1, "beatrice" made everyone walk into the garden at the time of explosion. In episode 2, rosa and maria where running out of the mansion. Episode 3, Jessica probably was trying to folllow her aunt when Eva was going to Kwadorian. Episode 4, battler was in the garden.

Ah, I said "garden" but I was trying to say "outside", sorry >XD

[Kamar]

The fact that the bodies were so shredded seems to indicate the explosion DID happen.

[Nabiki Asakura]

Originally Posted by Kamar

The fact that the bodies were so shredded seems to indicate the explosion DID happen.

But maybe it happened just outside....
I'm trying to understand if the mansion exploded too, because Ange didn't find it when she went to Rokkenjima @_@

[ArcticHelm]

I was under the impression Ange didn't get close enough to check much of anything in episode 4 due to the worn terrain.

[June 1983]

If you look on the map in the anime in the second to last episode, it looks like the mansion and other buildings are no longer there, and that possibly the elevation of the ground has sunk, too.

[Nabiki Asakura]

Originally Posted by June 1983

If you look on the map in the anime in the second to last episode, it looks like the mansion and other buildings are no longer there, and that possibly the elevation of the ground has sunk, too.

But the police found the corpses, right? And then, later, maybe Eva has ordered a demolition...
She would never talk about it, so ange wouldn't know.

Could it be that Erika's presence makes the explosion occur inside the mansion?
A friend of mine is thinking about mines in the forest.

[supertonia]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

First summaries for today. Respect levels for George dropping.

Spoiler for Ep6 summaries:

Rokkenjima 1986
- Jessica says they should go up with Maria and play cards. George says this is unbecoming conduct. Erika apologizes by saying she's still also a kid. Battler is simply pissed off at Erika for trying to break a child's dream.
- Shannon stops him. The kids go up to the room while Erika's room is prepared. Erika says she will stay here in the ground floor.
- Maria goes creepy voice and talks about the toxin in Erika and that she will never see the magic and happiness with it. Maria says she's a true apprentice of Beato.
- The 2 apparently promise to duel again (?). Due to the atmosphere, everyone except for Erika go up. Erika makes a faint smile.
- Kumasawa arrives as called by Erika. She wants to know more about the witch's story. It is a bit past 10pm.
- George and Shannon talk outside about childishness and Erika. Everyone else is playing cards. This is pretty much the proposal scene.
- Shannon and George agree that Erika's age is a difficult time, specifically how a child wants to become an adult.
- George himself describes himself that was the same. How he wanted to grow up and become a splendid man. He asks her if he has grown. She likens him to a butterly leaving it's chrysalis. She finds his slight negativity different from his usual cheery attitude.
- George says something about becoming the right gentlemen to handle girls. He also wants to become a proper man for the proper women, as he wasn't popular with the ladies growing up (?).
- Shannon says she understands the feeling of wanting to impress. She also does things to attract the guys.
- Apparently a flashback to when Battler talks naturally to Shannon. George was jealous of Battler.
- George says he gathers up the courage to confess to Shannon. She wants to know what he has in mind.
- Side scene to Ange and Featherine. Sort of sappy for Ange, but Featherine finds his attempts respectable.
- Flashback by George on Jessica and Battler. Apparently in his rush to become an adult he sort of looked down on both of them as childish. He says something about an inferiority complex that made him think like this. George says so much it's hard to translate I'm sorry.
- Side scene Featherine talks about heterosexual relationships. Ange says something about how natural (?) in communication Jessica and Battler are. She seems rather disgusted at George. The rest of this scene I can't translate properly.
- George says these times were the times he was most arrogant. In Shannon however he would realize he was a fool. He says one day while with Shannon he woudl realize that he was the one who was childish.
- He talks about Battler's recent refusal to come to the council and how it helped him (?) realize things. I think he wanted to imitate Battler. He now feels shameful of his attitude back then.
- He says he wanted to reinvent himself after realizing he wasn't going anywhere. He swore he wanted Shannon to see him as a better person. Love made him want to be a better person.
- Ok I admit I skipped some parts because it was so sappy I felt like gagging.
- George has a really long "I'll love you forever" marriage proposal, but is nervous considering what he just revealed about himself.
- Shannon is happy he was honest with her. She accepts his proposal. Sappy love speech from Shannon.
- Shannon wants to start a family with 3 kids. They want to raise children, grow old etc. etc. and even become grandparents. 50 year goals much Shannon?
- He presents the ring to Shannon. He says he will eventually tell the family about it, and is willing to be disinherited if he is ever threatened by it.

MetaWorld
- Erika is asking Battler when he'll actually start the fun. Patience, he says. He asks if she has love, and she counters if love is presentable as evidence, because it is not. Battler looks at her with pity.
- Erika admits love is presentable as motive for murder. She suggests that the scene between George and Shannon are presentable as a factor for the murders, even if the love is not stated in red. Battler says love is required to see things, and Erika asks that he drop all this love talk.
- Erika asks what exactly Battler's feelings for Beato are since they've been against each other since the first game. Dlanor arrives and says the scenes are finished and it is time to move on.

Rokkenjima 1986
- Shannon reports to Genji in the guesthouse. It's Shannon's shift now. Kanon notices the ring on Shannon's finger. Genji takes his break.
- Kanon says it's his move next. Shannon says she won't be defeated now, since their love has been nurtured for a long time. She wishes Kanon and Jessica the best.
- They take out some gold items (rings or brooches I think) and say they as furniture needed magic with love to be human. Kanon leaves to meet Jessica.
- Side scene of the Beatos. Beato2 recalls how she gave those blessings (?) to Shannon. Beato1 says she read in Featherline's books that those gold items helped bring love to them. Narrator explains that this little event helped rejuvenate magic faster, and would also lessen the toxin held by the servants.
- Beato1 is impressed Beato2 would do such a thing for them.
- In the guesthouse, Kumasawa talks about how the mirror in the shrine broke, and how more rumors of Beato's presence spread. It's been Kumasawa's break for a while and she's told a lot to Erika. At the same time Erika is analyzing the info.
- Erika asks about the mirror, and how it was meant to keep spirits at bay. She wonders why the mirror would be used to seal Beato if such a seal is or Eastern origin. She also asks why Beato would hate cobwebs. Kumasawa talks about how spiders are useful for trapping insects and other pests. Farmers have been using them on amulets to ward of spirits.
- Erika restates her understanding that Kinzo went to the island after his "lover" Beato grants him the gold. She believes that if ever there is a spirit, it would be different from Beato even if the situation is identical. Kumasawa explains the amulets to be of Western origin, and prevents Beato from touching the doorknobs.
- Erika argues there would be no reason for Beato to dislike cobwebs. Kumasawa suggests something that Beato and the spirit legend had fused into one (?). She says fishermen had long had the legends but never had an ideal form to give the spirit. When the legend of Beato came with Kinzo, they began associating this spirit with her. The portrait further reinforced the rumors.
- Kumasawa looks tired, but seems to understand what Erika is getting at. Erika suggests that if Beato was here now, would she really hate those cobwebs? Kumasawa thinks she might get burnt touching it. Erika thinks it's an interesting way to prove one as a witch. If she doesn't get burned, then she's human.
- Erika is announcing it out loud, as if she thinks someone listening. Perhaps she knows a Beato is listening in?
- Side scene to the Beatos. Beato1 asks if the cobweb thing is true. Beato2 holds a web string and passes it on her skin, leaving a burning mark. Beato1 doesn't seem to understand why it happens, and Beato2 doesn't seem to know either. It's been happening since they started existing.
- Beato2 says she different from that evil spirit legend, that the golden witch is a different entity. She doesn't know why she and the evil spirit have identical weaknesses. They now talk about the scorpion amulet.
- They warp to Kinzo's room. She explains how the scorpion inscription is meant to ward them off, and proves it by touching the knob. It burns her hand. She says after a while the injury will heal quickly anyway.
- Beato1 touches the doorknob. IT HAS NO EFFECT.
- She thinks it unbelievable because if she is a witch it must hurt her. They state their origins. Beato1 is born of Honorable Father. Beato2 is one who met Kinzo, gives him gold, becomes a spirit and becomes bound to the island.
- Beato2 postulates that she and Beato1 are still Beato but different is aspects. She's the magical witch aspect and Beato1 is the physical aspect. By becoming one they can be whole. Beato1 seems to agree. They both hold each other's hands but nothing happens.
- Beato2 wonders how she can be born of Battler is he's only on the island barely, and has been absent for 6 years. They both agree they must learn more about teir existence. The clock is 10:55pm.

This might be completly unrelated to solving the game but i think i know why witch and spirits hate spider webs bcs if they pass through them they wotn break so it will prove their inexistense ??

[Marion]

The game itself definietly confirms an explosion occurred. In the game when you execute Erika in the human characters her dead tips explain that an explosion of some form did occur on the island and possibly killed her if she was on the island. So we know for sure that something of that sort does happen. Whether it be from the boiler room or a bomb however is to be questioned.

[Nabiki Asakura]

Originally Posted by Marion

The game itself definietly confirms an explosion occurred. In the game when you execute Erika in the human characters her dead tips explain that an explosion of some form did occur on the island and possibly killed her if she was on the island. So we know for sure that something of that sort does happen. Whether it be from the boiler room or a bomb however is to be questioned.

Well, yes, but now I'm trying to go to the place.

Why does, in the first 4 games, the explosion occurs(maybe) outside and in 5 and 6 inside? Could it be that Erika is a diferential? All the corpses are ok in episode 1, I'm using it as a proof that a explosion didn't occur inside the mansion, but I still need to check the other episodes

[ArcticHelm]

It's probably safe to assume that the explosion at least covers the area where the rose garden, guest house and mansion are located and probably farther.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Nabiki Asakura

Well, yes, but now I'm trying to go to the place.

Why does, in the first 4 games, the explosion occurs(maybe) outside and in 5 and 6 inside? Could it be that Erika is a diferential? All the corpses are ok in episode 1, I'm using it as a proof that a explosion didn't occur inside the mansion, but I still need to check the other episodes

I highly doubt she's an exponent in what happens - Erika is a sudden addition to the plans of the culprit for sure. Nobody expected her, unless they have psychic powers

Personally I think it did happen inside the mansion. In EP 1 when we see the four cousins by the portrait they see golden butterflies. Perhaps the golden butterflies can represent flames? You can use the same example for Kanon, who also saw golden butterflies. Kinzo was burning at the time so he saw the flames.

[Animefanaticka]

Originally Posted by Marion

@Animefanaticka: I think Hideyoshi would be fourth twilight. He never seems to survive past the 6th twilight.

Spoiler for EP 6 revelation in here:

Also, technically Battler is still alive. Remember that the 5 other first twilight victims faked their deaths, but by the time Erika cuts their heads off they're definietly dead.

I do think that Jessica and Kanon are good for the 2nd twilight though, considering what happens with Shannon and Kanon near the end of the game.

But you also have to remember, in the previous episodes, Rudolf never got passed the first twilight, except one other episode.

About your other point, I wouldn't know, I haven't played the game, I'm just reading for spoilers!

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Animefanaticka

But you also have to remember, in the previous episodes, Rudolf never got passed the first twilight, except one other episode.

About your other point, I wouldn't know, I haven't played the game, I'm just reading for spoilers!

But since then he has. As far as pattern goes all we can predict is this for near certainty:

+Rosa will almost always die the first twilight (4/6 times)
+If the GM is not Beatrice then Maria will die the first twilight (EP5, 6)

• If the GM changes then Maria will die the following twilight (EP 3)

+Natsuhi and Eva die on the 1st twilight in even number games (EP 2, EP 4, EP 6)
+If Shannon or Kanon die the other dies the following twilight.

• Exception: EP 1, where Kanon survived until the 5th twilight. EP 3, where they died the same twilight.

+Jessica has interchanging deaths between the 10th twilight and the 2nd twilight (EP 1 and 3 were 10th, EP 2 and 4 were 2nd)

• Exception: Jessica died on the 1st twilight in EP 5

+Battler will always live to the 10th twilight

• Exception: Eva kills him in EP 3 before the 10th twilight

+If Eva dies, Hideyoshi is soon to follow (EP 1, 2, 4)

• If Hideyoshi dies, Eva's life expectancy rises (EP 3, 5)

There are probably more than this, but this what I noticed.

[Isekaijin]

Then that is Beato's true identity? An explosion?

Call me sceptic but I seriously doubt that an explosion killed Battler in EP 4. Because if so I would be very dissapointed with Ryukishi.

Then what would Battler's sin be? Messing with the boiler room 6 years ago?

[Marion]

Beatrice is not an explosion and Battler's sin has nothing to do with the explosion. Please play the game before talking about things here, because if you played the game it makes it almost crystal clear that the sin is a broken promise.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Isekaijin

Then that is Beato's true identity? An explosion

Beatrice is many things:

- A human (or part of one)
- A legend
- An explosion
- ????

Perhaps, the explosion deal would work as "Beatrice" since the culprit used the legend to conceal its cause.

[Rias]

Beatrice's identity, according to Ep6, is:

Akujikijima Legend + Kinzo's crazy claims + a certain maiden heart


Which explains different versions of Beatrice (for example, suit-Beatrice is Rokkenjima Legend version)

[ArcticHelm]

Well, Beato seems to be an amalgamation of things. Just as moe-Beato and hair down Beato in episode 6 express different aspects or formations of Beatrice, the explosion could be an aspect of Beatrice as well. It seems to be the concealing factor of the events on Rokkenjima, most likely caused by the culprit aspect of Beatrice (split-persona/false identity/whatever).

It seems likely that the culprit probably believed in the magic behind the event that happened on Rokkenjima and thought that they really could make infinite possibilities. In episode 6, suit Beato notes in gold that moe Beato was able to make wonderful magic, a petal of gold inside an upside down cup. I think it'd probably be fair to say that the culprit-aspect of Beatrice was perhaps aiming for this as well.

Edit: Beaten to some of this already. >.>

[Ttak]

Originally Posted by Nabiki Asakura

But the police found the corpses, right? And then, later, maybe Eva has ordered a demolition...

Wait, when did it was said the police found the corpses? I believe they only found body parts but could only confirm the owner of one jaw (or part of it), Maria.