(L) Girls und Panzer

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by breno.m.fis

I read several pages ago, about the rules that characterize what kind of tank can participate in matches and it seems that any tank produced until 1945 is allowed, it also seems that a tank is allowed to be repaired and even improved since that is done with concepts, technology and materials available until 1945, so no modern alloys.

I didn't mean metals that weren't available back then, but without the financial and time pressures of the war people aren't going to be making tank armor out of poor-quality metal. So it will be steel, but decent steel like what was specced for the tanks, rather than the cheap, soft stuff that ended up being used in some cases.

[Kikaifan]

Originally Posted by Tak

More than 50k T-34s were produced until the end of the war in 1945. Keeping that in mind however, on average, for every 5 T-34 produced, there were 4 losses.

Overall Soviet tank losses in the Eastern Front was between 85k to 100k, or more than twice than Germany's total tank production. Tiger kill ratio in the Eastern Front was on average 1:5 or 1:6.

Although known as a cheap AFV produced in massive quantities, I would like to point out that price in a command-economy almost has no meaning. And any factories efficiently equipped would be able to produce just about anything in large quantities.

Take for example, the Sherman, produced nearly as much as their Soviet counterpart. Unfortunately, people don't seem to give the Shermans that much credit when compared to the T-34. Yet overall, I consider the Sherman to be a better weapon system. Why? Aside from comparable weapons, the Sherman had better optics, better internal layout/legroom and... *gasp* radio (which many T-34 actually lacked). All these additions were also enjoyed by German panzers. In addition, the M4 Sherman were simply more reliable.

- Tak

Soviet optics, while not as good as German, were serviceable. Their real problem was lack of gunner position in the 34/76's 2-man turret and generally rushed crew training. There is still, for example, a known case of a single 34/76 scoring multiple kills against PzIII at 1.5km; while crews able to do so were probably rare mechanically speaking their gunnery could not have been too terrible.

While the Sherman was in most respects superior to the early model T-34s (T-34 still had better power-to-weight and wider tracks and so could handle worse ground), it also began production 2 years later, nothing by modern development standards but a lifetime during the rapid development cycles of WWII. Besides it's production numbers the T-34 is most notable simple for how ahead of its time it was.

Loss comparisons are somewhat tricky business as well as some sources will count only unrecoverable losses while others count tanks that will ultimately return to service (and probably be knocked out again at some point). I have gotten into a lot of arguments with people about loss ratios at Kursk and the ensuing counteroffensives who want to count eveything Soviet that went to the workshops as a loss but only German tanks that were totally destroyed...

[breno.m.fis]

It seems that the only thing truly modern in the tanks of this series is the carbon coating inside the tanks. Well, just because they have to use materials available until 1945 does not mean they have to use cheaper alloys, in this time already existed good materials (although probably not be used on a large scale in wartime to build armor) that could greatly improve the defense of some tanks.


Edit: Random Wanderer@ sorry dude, I agree with you on that. Financing a team from a school is much different than the cost of a war.

[PzIVf3]

Spoiler for Sparkling cellphone:

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Tak

More than 50k T-34s were produced until the end of the war in 1945. Keeping that in mind however, on average, for every 5 T-34 produced, there were 4 losses.

Overall Soviet tank losses in the Eastern Front was between 85k to 100k, or more than twice than Germany's total tank production. Tiger kill ratio in the Eastern Front was on average 1:5 or 1:6.

Although known as a cheap AFV produced in massive quantities, I would like to point out that price in a command-economy almost has no meaning. And any factories efficiently equipped would be able to produce just about anything in large quantities.

Take for example, the Sherman, produced nearly as much as their Soviet counterpart. Unfortunately, people don't seem to give the Shermans that much credit when compared to the T-34. Yet overall, I consider the Sherman to be a better weapon system. Why? Aside from comparable weapons, the Sherman had better optics, better internal layout/legroom and... *gasp* radio (which many T-34 actually lacked). All these additions were also enjoyed by German panzers. In addition, the M4 Sherman were simply more reliable.

- Tak

You cannot compare the M4 to T-34 in terms of armour. And weapon-wise, T-34/85 was produced in much greater numbers than Firefly. The common Sherman cannot compare to the T-34/85 which was also fielded in increasing numbers towards the end of the war

Originally Posted by Ithekro

A weak turret that can be penetrated by a 37mm shell was the point I was making, since it means even the lighter tank weapons can knock out a T-34/85. But only turret hits. Otherwise there would be abolutely no point in having a 38(t) or a Type 89 involved in this sport, as they aren't very useful against tanks fielded by the other schools.

The 37mm cannot penetrate the armor on the older T-34 turrets, but some reports that they can penetrate the armor on the T-34/85 due to softer metal used in the larger turrets (probably to save weight, but also due to metal shortages).

Did you realize that plot armour aside, the girls were shooting at each other from literal point blank ranges? Should take that into consideration also before making any armour comments

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Did you realize that plot armour aside, the girls were shooting at each other from literal point blank ranges? Should take that into consideration also before making any armour comments

That's why I think the misses were mostly deliberate. Katyusha doesn't want just a win, she wants a win which is a humiliating defeat for Ooarai.

[gaiar31]

They are not twins!!!!

[vuluc88]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

At 20x the length, the school ship would have 8000 times the volume and mass. It would be far easier for us to send a manned crew to Mars than to build something like this.

Who gets jurisdiction on the ocean?

Who knows... after ss2 of international matches, we may got ss3 of inter-planet tournament

[breno.m.fis]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

That's why I think the misses were mostly deliberate. Katyusha doesn't want just a win, she wants a win which is a humiliating defeat for Ooarai.

And it is established in most stories where the arrogant villain (here only an arrogant opponent) trying to win and cause great humiliation for the hero, rather than their simply finish it quickly (and ultimately ends up giving the hero time to regroup and prepare a counterattack), turns out to be more humiliatingly defeated. It remains now wait to see what creative strategy the production of the anime will prepare to take the girls out of the rat hole they are trapped. Maybe they will cause confusion in the church door with a damaged tank while others open a hole in the back wall. Maybe something like this?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by gaiar31

They are not twins!!!!

I'm more surprised they are not clones produced in some Senshadou facility

[Chiaki_chan]

Originally Posted by gaiar31

They are not twins!!!!

it surprised me to learn that she is no kinship because at first I thought it was sister (not twins) just sister

[Ithekro]

3 hours....


If this was the A-Team, I'd expect them to cobble together a proto-Tiger out of parts and either over-armor it so they T-34s can do anything, or have ablative tanks on all sides so the flag tank cannot be hit and yet near stop for any reason.

Also they'd have a flamethrower and a mortar for no good reason but to be showy about it.

All from stuff they either brought with them, from salvaged T-34s they hit, or from stuff that just happened to be inside the church or town.

Originally Posted by Chiaki_chan

it surprised me to learn that she is no kinship because at first I thought it was sister (not twins) just sister

Or cousins at least. They are from the same ship and all that.

The school will need a crew for their seventh tank. Or a replacement crew for the Panzer IV if Miho's crew goes to the new heavy tank. Assuming the damage to these tanks doesn't get so high that they have to scrap them.

[Julio C]

This show needs to have its own sub forum. We are getting several pages between episodes now.

[sandhy88]

Spoilers

Spoiler for eps 9

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Chiaki_chan]

Originally Posted by Julio C

This show needs to have its own sub forum. We are getting several pages between episodes now.

you is right between people who speak episodes, those posts images and those that speaks tanks .... but we are at episode 08 ... is that it is not too late for her?

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

One thing that endears me about the Sherman is all the variants from D-Day and on; Hobart's Funnies.

Seeing 1 single tank type being made to do SO many different things besides fighting other tanks is just so cool to see.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

You cannot compare the M4 to T-34 in terms of armour. And weapon-wise, T-34/85 was produced in much greater numbers than Firefly. The common Sherman cannot compare to the T-34/85 which was also fielded in increasing numbers towards the end of the war

The Korean War performance between HVSS Shermans and T-34/85's is very telling on how good the Sherman really is despite all the misinformed treatments about its capabilities.

[Ithekro]

How many episodes are there suppose to be in this series anyway? 13?

Reading up a little on the Panzer 38(t). The British tester said that it's gun was very inaccurate in its ability to be sighted in properly on the move. One wonders if Momo could hit anything if she was put in another tank with a better system.

Though it would be funny if they cobbled together a Marder III in three hours using one the of T-34s they hit earlier.

Spoiler for spoiler pictures:

Looks like they get the Stag III operational again in those three hours.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

3 hours....

If this was the A-Team, I'd expect them to cobble together a proto-Tiger out of parts and either over-armor it so they T-34s can do anything, or have ablative tanks on all sides so the flag tank cannot be hit and yet near stop for any reason.

Also they'd have a flamethrower and a mortar for no good reason but to be showy about it.

All from stuff they either brought with them, from salvaged T-34s they hit, or from stuff that just happened to be inside the church or town.

I'm surprised it took four days for a reference to The A-Team, what with the heroes seemingly trapped inside a building that may or may not be filled with welding equipment, sheet metal, air compressors, cabbages, a wrecked car or two...

Alternatively, they convert all of the tanks into one mecha and walk out.

[Marina2]

Originally Posted by sandhy88

Spoilers

Spoiler for eps 9

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Not sure what to expect but ep.9 must be one of the most epic thing I will see in this season.