(L+CR) Dungeon ni Deai wo Motomeru no wa Machigatteiru Darou ka

[BladeMancer]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

I'm gonna use a phrase I personally hate but it applies here. HYPOCRIT. You're okay with Bell's hack skill which most of us pretty much described as Pokerus on steroids but your gonna knock a character who has an OP Skll just because if anything else she's too fangirlish. If anything lefiya strikes me as a female version of Bell w/o the nonsensical skill and yes i read Sword Oratoria.

Bells "hack spell" is used as a plot device to allow the readers to experience more of the world because if he levelled normally, it would be a guaranteed 10+ Novels to get to level 2, and probably the max dungeon floor we might see is 7-10.

Lefiya's hack spell is just there for the hell of it. It serves no purpose, and is also given to a character who doesn't deserve it (at least in my opinion).

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by xrick

Imperial, as you're always finding reasons to bash almost every damn LN-adaption, tell me what LNs do you deem good enough to not BASH!!!

He doesn't bash he critisizes weaknesses in the plot. Lefiya is a terrible character not because of her bullshit power(yes other than Bell's power her's is hax for the sake of hax and lazy writing) but because she's a nonsensical AS a character. She's serves no purpose to the plot and I guarantee she was shoehorned in to draw in the people who like the "cute girl's doing cute thing shit", Ais is boring as fuck and Loki who I loved as a character but the author actually made me find her annoying.

Also argue his points and don't get personal if you can't then stay out of the conversation.

[RDNexus]

You went and tried to defend him when my "comment" wasn't simply aimed at his words on DanMachi, I'm sure you can get it from my post.
For as long as I've been here, almost always I find him replying in a topic is to criticize, bash and basically turn everything negative, others beside me have already asked him what the heck is he looking in Anime and etc if it seems as if he no longer likes those at all...
I just want to know if there are any stories he likes and/or finds more decent in his eyes, that's all.

[GDB]

<sarcasm> I know, right? The anime adapted Lefiya terribly. Her characterization was awful and her ability is hax. Hated sitting through her scenes in the anime. </sarcasm>

Oh wait, that wasn't in the anime. So why are you all discussing her in the anime thread?

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by GDB

<sarcasm> I know, right? The anime adapted Lefiya terribly. Her characterization was awful and her ability is hax. Hated sitting through her scenes in the anime. </sarcasm>

Oh wait, that wasn't in the anime. So why are you all discussing her in the anime thread?

We veered slightly off topic my bad.

[Newprimus]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

I'm gonna use a phrase I personally hate but it applies here. HYPOCRIT. You're okay with Bell's hack skill which most of us pretty much described as Pokerus on steroids but your gonna knock a character who has an OP Skll just because if anything else she's too fangirlish. If anything lefiya strikes me as a female version of Bell w/o the nonsensical skill and yes i read Sword Oratoria.

Actually I'm not okay with Bell's OP skill. I'm saying that at least he's making and showing some real effort to improve himself. He's also got his fighting skills, along with his motivation. Lefiya ONLY has her summon burst. She's STILL questioning her own motivations for being an adventurer this far in.

EDIT: I think the problem is the difference between the way we see things. I see Bell as a collection of negatives and positives. You see him as either a negative or a positive.

[kasimmorathi]

Originally Posted by Newprimus

EDIT: I think the problem is the difference between the way we see things. I see Bell as a collection of negatives and positives. You see him as either a negative or a positive.

I think that is the core piece folks are missing here in these arguments I'm reading through now. I like the fact that Bell is developing "fast", as it means we'll see him involved in the early, mid, and late game activity. I like the fact that Bell is a bit of a naive hero, and it's allowed us to see some of his personality growth in addition to the physical. I like the fact that the story doesn't focus upon any romances, or absurd sexual situations/ecchi. I like that our main villain, Freya, isn't out to take over the world but deliberately grooming Bell.

This has been a breath of fresh air to me in comparison with the normal excessive fan-service of most harem shows, or protagonists that start and remain overpowered through the entire season. We've seen steady growth in the character, from his fight with the Silverback, to saving Lili, to the fight with the minotaur. We've seen consistent pacing in the action that has always been fun to watch rather than an "eye-roll, here comes the next power up" in other series.

I'm not saying it's the best anime ever, not saying it's the most original story, but so far it has kept me far more entertained than many of the current or past few seasons have. And if the sales are any measure, it's resonating with the audience. Without so much as a nip slip.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by kasimmorathi

I think that is the core piece folks are missing here in these arguments I'm reading through now. I like the fact that Bell is developing "fast", as it means we'll see him involved in the early, mid, and late game activity. I like the fact that Bell is a bit of a naive hero, and it's allowed us to see some of his personality growth in addition to the physical. I like the fact that the story doesn't focus upon any romances, or absurd sexual situations/ecchi. I like that our main villain, Freya, isn't out to take over the world but deliberately grooming Bell.

This has been a breath of fresh air to me in comparison with the normal excessive fan-service of most harem shows, or protagonists that start and remain overpowered through the entire season. We've seen steady growth in the character, from his fight with the Silverback, to saving Lili, to the fight with the minotaur. We've seen consistent pacing in the action that has always been fun to watch rather than an "eye-roll, here comes the next power up" in other series.

I'm not saying it's the best anime ever, not saying it's the most original story, but so far it has kept me far more entertained than many of the current or past few seasons have. And if the sales are any measure, it's resonating with the audience. Without so much as a nip slip.

Hey it's cool if you like it, no one is saying you shouldn't it's you ropinion just like what i have said are mine (even if some people don't want to admit it) but:

- There's the whole love triangle? Cuadrangle? Going on, heck Bell's ability is tied into romance itself and has been a big focus regarding Bell's "growth".

- I seem to recall Aiz with half a boob hanging out, Hestias boobs bouncing around and being the focus of many, many close ups, the thing where Bell fell face first into Aiz ass, Freya orgasming all over the series, etc.

But like I said if you like it, then you like it, just because someone else doesn't, it shouldn't bother you as long as you like it, but criticism will always be there.

[Novem]

Originally Posted by Newprimus

Bell is also in ways misogynist, which has always bothered me about his character and his grandfather.

There's also him saving Lili after she betrays him. Most people see it as Bell not manning up and casting her away after she hurts him. That's there, but I also see a misogynist bent to this, especially the point where he saves her just because she's a girl. You ask, how can this be misogynist when Bell is giving preferential treatment to a girl? There's that, but he saved her because she's a girl and cute, but he didn't do the necessary thing and judge her and punish her for her actions, thus putting her on a path for a chance at redemption. Remember in episode 7 where Hestia has to judge Lili in place of Bell and the guilt was crushing Lili the whole time until Hestia put her on the path to redeem herself? This means Bell went as far to save Lili, but didn't go all the way and do the hard part in rehabilitating her. We catch people abusing drugs and put them in prison, but getting them through rehab and making them functioning members of society again is the really hard part. Bell, in a sense, did the easy part so he can get a piece of cute by his side whose ears he can poke at when he feels like it, but avoided the hard part of redeeming her, which allows her to be shackled to him through self-guilt without a clear path to redeeming herself and allowing her to stand on her own feet again in the future. So yeah, there's a misogynist bend to this.

I'd say Bell is trying to be chivalrous rather than misogynist. His grandfather (this is who it is fair to blame) filled his head every day with stories of heroes going on adventures, saving the damsel-in-distress, and creating harems. From the looks of it Bell had no other notable social exposure out in the country but with his grandfather. From what we see in his time in Orario, a lot of his original expectations about women and being an adventurer were turned upside down with how Aizu was the one that saved him from the Minotaur and trained, Eina instructing him about the dungeon, and Ryuu being another wise adventurer that even bails him out here and there. He still has a lot of his grandfather's teachings in his head and personality, but it's not some destructive red pill/manosphere ideology he is operating under. He seems to be getting closer to the point where he can see them as reliable partners rather than purely as damsels in need of saving.

As for Lili, I don't even think Bell is mature enough to really go into depth with the underlying issues Lili had. Dealing with the surface issues like protecting her from back stabbing familia members and hordes of monsters is clear cut and easy to act on. I think at 14 years of age, and especially who he spent the majority of those 14 years with, it isn't hard to believe that Bell didn't have the emotional and mental maturity necessary to properly deal with Lili's guilt and redemption. It isn't like he is close to 20 like Eina and has been in Orario for years because then I'd be right there with you. Considering the circumstances, I think Hestia actually was the better option to address Lili when Bell clearly was lacking the capacity to do it at this point in time.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by xrick

You went and tried to defend him when my "comment" wasn't simply aimed at his words on DanMachi, I'm sure you can get it from my post.
For as long as I've been here, almost always I find him replying in a topic is to criticize, bash and basically turn everything negative, others beside me have already asked him what the heck is he looking in Anime and etc if it seems as if he no longer likes those at all...
I just want to know if there are any stories he likes and/or finds more decent in his eyes, that's all.

Its okay but if you read my posts you'd understand that my point in this one and others is I bash SPECIFIC Points of an anime not the whole anime itself but no worries. I like plenty of stories i find plenty of stories decent but just because i like stories doesnt mean i cant bash certain aspects of it.

[QSTraderDG86]

Got into this anime after seeing Vampy Bit Me's Hestia cosplay. Welp, the main character is completely cliche at this point--the shy wimpy lead who's painfully unaware of all of the romantic affection sent his way who wins people over by being pure of heart and has a suicidal fighting style but somehow manages to come out relatively unhurt.

So far, IMO, Hestia really carries this show in how hilarious she is, though Lili getting a cooldown hug was a cute moment, even if someone who isn't so incorruptibly kind would have let her get killed by the ants.

Also, am I the only one that's noticed similarities between:

Aiz - Saber
Freya - Esdeath/Esdese
Ottarl - Sol Badguy (seriously, between his design and his attitude, the only thing missing is a gunflame FRC)

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by QSTraderDG86

Got into this anime after seeing Vampy Bit Me's Hestia cosplay. Welp, the main character is completely cliche at this point--the shy wimpy lead who's painfully unaware of all of the romantic affection sent his way who wins people over by being pure of heart and has a suicidal fighting style but somehow manages to come out relatively unhurt.

So far, IMO, Hestia really carries this show in how hilarious she is, though Lili getting a cooldown hug was a cute moment, even if someone who isn't so incorruptibly kind would have let her get killed by the ants.

Also, am I the only one that's noticed similarities between:

Aiz - Saber
Freya - Esdeath/Esdese
Ottarl - Sol Badguy (seriously, between his design and his attitude, the only thing missing is a gunflame FRC)

Most of the characters are common tropes and fairly common when it comes to anime.

[Newprimus]

Though these character tropes are everywhere and have existed forever, so Danmachi isn't like the first one to be re-using themes and tropes from the past. Cliche itself is a cliche at this point.

[Malicre]

As an anime only viewer, i don't really see this as a harem anime because bell really only has eyes for Aiz i means its even the sole reason he wants to become stronger.

Tho i wouldn't mind a freya x bell ending, bwahaha.

[QSTraderDG86]

Originally Posted by Malicre

As an anime only viewer, i don't really see this as a harem anime because bell really only has eyes for Aiz i means its even the sole reason he wants to become stronger.

Tho i wouldn't mind a freya x bell ending, bwahaha.

Saber + Esdese? I can get behind that .

Regarding tropes, sure, no matter what, you're going to run into some of them. The more involved the work, the more tropes you'll pick up...

But that shouldn't be an excuse to be as cookie cutter as they come. I mean sure, be 90% similar, but I don't even see a single unique thing about Bell.

It's Hestia that basically makes the anime worth watching, and that simply for the lulz.

[FateAnomaly]

On the matter of shipping, while i like Aiz i think Hestia deserves to be with Bell more. They are also more compatible. Alas, Hestia is a goddess who is probably immortal while Bell will age and die if he didn't die fighting monsters.

I think Syr isn't Freya but probably her daughter/clone or spy or something similar.

There is a part that i am confused about. Everyone in the show says Bell has remarkable growth but it isn't without precedence. I mean look at Aiz. She looks 20 but has out of the world skills yet even she is impressed with Bell growth.

But i view this as a typical rpg where the mc gain level much faster than the npcs so i have no problem with it. I still think this is a harem show though not that it is wrong by itself.

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

On the matter of shipping, while i like Aiz i think Hestia deserves to be with Bell more. They are also more compatible. Alas, Hestia is a goddess who is probably immortal while Bell will age and die if he didn't die fighting monsters.

I think Syr isn't Freya but probably her daughter/clone or spy or something similar.

There is a part that i am confused about. Everyone in the show says Bell has remarkable growth but it isn't without precedence. I mean look at Aiz. She looks 20 but has out of the world skills yet even she is impressed with Bell growth.

But i view this as a typical rpg where the mc gain level much faster than the npcs so i have no problem with it. I still think this is a harem show though not that it is wrong by itself.

Bells growth is unprecedented and unheard of Ais is 15-16 by the way and it took her 2 years to get from level 1 to 2 and that is considered fast in their world, add to it that she had level'd with a familia help her and "grind her". All her skills weren't that high(i'd personally say they were low c's to mid b's) and if I remember correctly she got her achievement in as a group.

Now compare Bell it took him a month(true he's got his xp buff), by himself and he solo'd an elite monster(not a normal one) who was trained by Ottar from the 19th floor, given a weapon and finally all his stats were at S to SS+. No there is no precedent. 80% of adventurers never leave level 1 much less solo floors that are below the 5th. Bell by the time he's level 5 would probably be able to solo Ais+her whole familia.

[Birdway]

Bell's fast forth is for the sake of avoiding time skips or having to show lots of novels with him still stuck on Level 1.

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

This is it moreso Bell is poorly written in many regards and thats the biggest issue I personally have.

Dude, you didn't even read the novels. You say you did but in actual discussions you only attack the cliche avoiding discussing the novel contents.

[Isaac Gravity]

The minotaur gave the preview. I can't stop laughing at that! Sounded like a cool guy all thing considered.

[FateAnomaly]

Does level grant additional abilities or is it just a title?